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Winter 2013 - 2014 Banter Thread

NEG NAO

By NEG NAO,
in New York City Metro

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Guest Pamela

Guest Pamela

Posted
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Yep, we're pretty much on par with southern NJ for season snow average. I don't have an average here, but KISP averages 24.8" a season. Our avg. Dec temps so far this month are warmer than anywhere else except for the NYC UHI, but all that warmth never does us any good. I don't mind it, because a lot of times I know I'm not going to get a lot of snow. I don't have a love for snow as much as a used to. Knowing that odds are against me, most of the time I root for torches all winter long.

 

The South Shore of Long island is, overall, a good deal colder than the North Shore during the autumn & winter because the prevailing winds are now northwesterly and consequently the N. Shore is frequently warmed by the Sound on mornings when anticyclonic conditions prevail...this diminishes as one moves southbound. 

 

The Islip MacArthur snow average, is, of course, based on an entirely incomplete record.  Though it dates back to the mid 1980's, proper readings at Islip did not begin until 2008.  For example, the December 2003 snowstorm...which put down around 20 inches near Islip...was recorded as a trace in the Islip climate record. 

Such mistakes happened with great frequency prior to 2008...though not on such a grand scale.  So the 24.8" average is quite simply wrong.  There was a long time cooperative at nearby Patchogue...which took measurements from the 1930's through 1997 and they had a mean annual snowfall around 29".  That station also holds the record for most snow in a season on Long Island, 92" in 1995-96, including 16" in April 1996. 

So, to set the record straight, the South Shore of Long Island is a good deal snowier than southern New Jersey & the coast of central New Jersey and about as snowy as interior central New Jersey. 

Moreover, temperatures there are a good deal lower than the N. Shore or NYC...as evinvced by the remarkable lows set there as during the 1980's...when towns like Patchogue & Bridgehampton saw the mercury plunge to between -10 F and -15 F on multiple occasions.  The morning minima out at the Westhampton Airport reflect a similar pattern.

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jm1220

jm1220

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Yep, we're pretty much on par with southern NJ for season snow average. I don't have an average here, but KISP averages 24.8" a season. Our avg. Dec temps so far this month are warmer than anywhere else except for the NYC UHI, but all that warmth never does us any good. I don't mind it, because a lot of times I know I'm not going to get a lot of snow. I don't have a love for snow as much as a used to. Knowing that odds are against me, most of the time I root for torches all winter long.

Compared to most of the area, my backyard hasn't done much worse than the rest of the Tri-State. I had just under 30" last year, maybe 2-3" in 11-12, about 60" in 10-11. and 45" or so in 09-10. Compared to the rest of this area my town is a frustrating place to live during the winter, but it's still better than Balt/DC for sure, and usually Philly or even its suburbs.

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TWCCraig

TWCCraig

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The South Shore of Long island is, overall, a good deal colder than the North Shore during the autumn & winter because the prevailing winds are now northwesterly and consequently the N. Shore is frequently warmed by the Sound on mornings when anticyclonic conditions prevail...this diminishes as one moves southbound. 

 

The Islip MacArthur snow average, is, of course, based on an entirely incomplete record.  Though it dates back to the mid 1980's, proper readings at Islip did not begin until 2008.  For example, the December 2003 snowstorm...which put down around 20 inches near Islip...was recorded as a trace in the Islip climate record. 

Such mistakes happened with great frequency prior to 2008...though not on such a grand scale.  So the 24.8" average is quite simply wrong.  There was a long time cooperative at nearby Patchogue...which took measurements from the 1930's through 1997 and they had a mean annual snowfall around 29".  That station also holds the record for most snow in a season on Long Island, 92" in 1995-96, including 16" in April 1996. 

So, to set the record straight, the South Shore of Long Island is a good deal snowier than southern New Jersey & the coast of central New Jersey and about as snowy as interior central New Jersey. 

Moreover, temperatures there are a good deal lower than the N. Shore or NYC...as evinvced by the remarkable lows set there as during the 1980's...when towns like Patchogue & Bridgehampton saw the mercury plunge to between -10 F and -15 F on multiple occasions.  The morning minima out at the Westhampton Airport reflect a similar pattern.

 

The south shore can definitely radiate better than the north shore can, but the south isn't always colder than the north shore. On nights where the wind is calm everywhere, the entire island east of Queens can radiate pretty well. If it wasn't for rad cooling the south shore would be much warmer. But even so with rad cooling, the difference temp wise between north shore and south shore is minimal. I figured that KISP was too low. P.O.R. is too short. In many coastal events, like the one coming up, the south shore is at a disadvantage. While the north shore, being more north, will have slightly more time as snow than rain when compared to here as WAA occurs. It's noted in several events the north shore can do significantly better in coastal storms or in most general snow events. If you look at surface temps during events, the south shore could be a degree or two higher despite a wind off of the sound, which is why on several occasions I've seen nearly 0" of snow while the north shore can be buried with several inches of snow. 12/10/13...3/08/13 to name a few recent. Also, the north shore can be helped by orographic lift. The same effect can negatively effect the south shore. Good discussion we have here :)

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Guest Pamela

Guest Pamela

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The south shore can definitely radiate better than the north shore can, but the south isn't always colder than the north shore. On nights where the wind is calm everywhere, the entire island east of Queens can radiate pretty well. If it wasn't for rad cooling the south shore would be much warmer. But even so with rad cooling, the difference temp wise between north shore and south shore is minimal. I figured that KISP was too low. P.O.R. is too short. In many coastal events, like the one coming up, the south shore is at a disadvantage. While the north shore, being more north, will have slightly more time as snow than rain when compared to here as WAA occurs. It's noted in several events the north shore can do significantly better in coastal storms or in most general snow events. If you look at surface temps during events, the south shore could be a degree or two higher despite a wind off of the sound, which is why on several occasions I've seen nearly 0" of snow while the north shore can be buried with several inches of snow. 12/10/13...3/08/13 to name a few recent. Also, the north shore can be helped by orographic lift. The same effect can negatively effect the south shore. Good discussion we have here :)

 

Never said the N. Shore was not snowier than the S. Shore...that is pretty much a given over the long haul.  But when it comes to average morning minima...S. Shore is a bit colder than North because the number of anticyclonic mornings vastly exceed the number of times it is stormy and the S. Shore gets a bit warmer than the North.

The N. Shore also has colder afternoon maxima than the South...but this still does not balance out against the more pronounced difference in the morning minima advantage the S. Shore has. 

The average January low on the N. Shore is probably close to 24 F...towards the center of the Island & southward...it is probably closer to 22 F.

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TWCCraig

TWCCraig

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Never said the N. Shore was not snowier than the S. Shore...that is pretty much a given over the long haul.  But when it comes to average morning minima...S. Shore is a bit colder than North because the number of anticyclonic mornings vastly exceed the number of times it is stormy and the S. Shore gets a bit warmer than the North.

The N. Shore also has colder afternoon maxima than the South...but this still does not balance out against the more pronounced difference in the morning minima advantage the S. Shore has. 

The average January low on the N. Shore is probably close to 24 F...towards the center of the Island & southward...it is probably closer to 22 F.

 

Correct. Not denying anything. Having an avg. low minimum slightly lower in the south shore when impeding event (rain or snow) is approaching doesn't help much though. On nights where radiational cooling is not optimal, temps island wide are pretty symmetric. Any wind and given the direction it's coming from can determine which parts of the island will be the warmest and coolest.

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NEG NAO

NEG NAO

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Just a gut feeling but this thing has bust written all over it (and not because of the radar ). I'm thinking I'll see closer to 2"..not the 4-8 that's forecast

I agree most areas south and east of I- 287 and I-80 will end of with about what they got in the previous events a couple of inches maybe 3 in some spots before the heavy rain later tonight  - which will compact most of it and make it look less....

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Guest Imperator

Guest Imperator

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in other news the dallas cowboys own tony room did his trademark move, an interception at the worst time :lmao:

Lol I didn't know where else to ask. Usually he would be living on here during a storm.

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Guest Imperator

Guest Imperator

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Posted

people got tired of his nagging huh?

I think more people would contribute to the forum if the mods reigned guys like him in.

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Guest Imperator

Guest Imperator

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I doubt he was banned. But it is a little odd we haven't heard from him in 2 days after posting a model play by play for a week straight

Unless his employer finally called him out for posting on here all the time. A lot of firms keep tabs on internet use.

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Guest Imperator

Guest Imperator

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that's true, leisure time on company time is no bueno to a point :axe:

It's one thing to casually post on a forum during company time. It's another playing all day on a forum during company time.

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Guest Imperator

Guest Imperator

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I believe he's a volunteer firefighter so maybe he had a shift this weekend

Very admirable. Even though I view his posting habits negatively he is an active contributor to the forum and it was just odd not to see him post during the storm. Hope all is well.

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