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Winter 2013 - 2014 Banter Thread


NEG NAO

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Exactly-I'm sure it will get quite cold for many under this pattern, but I don't see the big snow opportunities unless heights rise over the Davis Straight and Greenland. If anything, it may cause too much suppression and we're just left cold and dry.

Define big snows ?

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 UNC W , I am borrowing this for a second .

 

 

From UNC

I broke down the 31 10" snowfalls we got since 1956 and this is what it shows...

11 storms had a -AO+PNA-NAO...3/20/58...12/11/60...2/6/78...2/11/83...1/8/96...12/30/00...1/25/04...12/19/09...2/9/10...2/25/10...1/26/11...

..5 storms had a +AO+PNA-NAO..3/18/56...2/3/61...1/12/64...12/5/03...1/25/05...

..4 storms had a +AO+PNA+NAO 12/21/59...2/6/67...2/4/95...2/16/03...

..4 storms had a -AO+PNA+NAO. 1/19/61...1/19/78...2/11/06...2/9/13...

..4 storms had a -AO-PNA+NAO.. 3/3/60...2/9/69...2/19/79...2/11/94...

..2 storms had a +AO-PNA+NAO. 3/13/93...2/16/96...

..1 storms had a -AO-PNA-NAO.. 12/26/10...

..0 storms had a +AO-PNA-NAO...

 

 

14 of  31 10 inch or greater snows that have happened in the last 60 years have happened with POS NAO  that's 45 percent .

Half for the lack of a better phrase . There is this dogma out there that  WE NEED A NEG NAO otherwise they are just clippers and crud .

History is showing you the differences are slight .

 

I believe a 10 inch snowstorm in KNYC are major .If you are looking for the 20 inch plus from the Mid Atlantic to New England  than you have a point . It has been a few years  since a 20 day period has looked this good .Need patience

If it doesn't snow it may not just be the Atlantic ,there are other factors to look at  but I really believe there will be multiple 6 inch plus events even in LB :whistle:

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A lot of doom and gloom over the upcoming pattern for no reason on here and the New England forums. Would you rather it just torch with no chance at any snow at all? At least the cold will be in place for snowfall opportunities. 

 

There have been plenty of significant snowfalls even with a +NAO by the way. A negative NAO would cause major suppression if the PV is so close by, so I'm not sure I'd like that either unless some wanna relive February 5-6, 2010 again. 

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 UNC W , I am borrowing this for a second .

 

 

From UNC

I broke down the 31 10" snowfalls we got since 1956 and this is what it shows...

11 storms had a -AO+PNA-NAO...3/20/58...12/11/60...2/6/78...2/11/83...1/8/96...12/30/00...1/25/04...12/19/09...2/9/10...2/25/10...1/26/11...

..5 storms had a +AO+PNA-NAO..3/18/56...2/3/61...1/12/64...12/5/03...1/25/05...

..4 storms had a +AO+PNA+NAO 12/21/59...2/6/67...2/4/95...2/16/03...

..4 storms had a -AO+PNA+NAO. 1/19/61...1/19/78...2/11/06...2/9/13...

..4 storms had a -AO-PNA+NAO.. 3/3/60...2/9/69...2/19/79...2/11/94...

..2 storms had a +AO-PNA+NAO. 3/13/93...2/16/96...

..1 storms had a -AO-PNA-NAO.. 12/26/10...

..0 storms had a +AO-PNA-NAO...

 

 

14 of  31 10 inch or greater snows that have happened in the last 60 years have happened with POS NAO  that's 45 percent .

Half for the lack of a better phrase . There is this dogma out there that  WE NEED A NEG NAO otherwise they are just clippers and crud .

History is showing you the differences are slight .

 

I believe a 10 inch snowstorm in KNYC are major .If you are looking for the 20 inch plus from the Mid Atlantic to New England  than you have a point . It has been a few years  since a 20 day period has looked this good .Need patience

If it doesn't snow it may not just be the Atlantic ,there are other factors to look at  but I really believe there will be multiple 6 inch plus events even in LB :whistle:

24 of 31 had a plus pna...as long as the pna is positive we have a good chance...

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Define big snows ?

do I have to get the list of 12 inch plus storms out again ?- there have only been 36 in 144 years - thats the definition of "big snows"  until we can get some consistency on multiple model runs of one developing - there are NO big snows in sight ....

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do I have to get the list of 12 inch plus storms out again ?- there have only been 36 in 144 years - thats the definition of "big snows"  until we can get some consistency on multiple model runs of one developing - there are NO big snows in sight ....

I  used UNC example of 10 inches at KNYC  14 of 31 have happened with a  POS NAO  since 1956  .   Think people overvalue  and focus too much on the Atlantic ,  lot of factors get you there

 

His argument was its a result of the Atlantic .

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(Cat 2 Score of 3.31) http://www.americanwx.com/bb/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-1352-0-06457200-1389920381.jpg

(Cat 2 score of 2.95) http://www.americanwx.com/bb/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-1352-0-93957200-1389937562.jpg

 

You kind of have to admit that two KU's before February is impressive. 

 

Even with the short to medium range looking dim (00z GFS/ECMWF showing relatively dry conditions through the 25th), I'll still go out on a limb and say that we should wind up with a total of four by the time winter is over.  

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The DGEX always sniffs out the big ones, it had Sandy making landfall on Cape May for 2543 straight runs and never wavered.

 

I always say it can be useful when used the right way. When consistent, it usually is correct in sniffing out the threats. In the summer, it always shows the big heat waves with accurate 2m temp depictions for 2500 runs in a row.

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I always say it can be useful when used the right way. When consistent, it usually is correct in sniffing out the threats. In the summer, it always shows the big heat waves with accurate 2m temp depictions for 2500 runs in a row.

John next weekend sure does look VERY appetizing for something pretty big from philly up to maine. Next week is going to fun for tracking storms to say the very least
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I always say it can be useful when used the right way. When consistent, it usually is correct in sniffing out the threats. In the summer, it always shows the big heat waves with accurate 2m temp depictions for 2500 runs in a row.

how many runs in a row now has this model shown next weekends storm ?

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John next weekend sure does look VERY appetizing for something pretty big from philly up to maine. Next week is going to fun for tracking storms to say the very least

 

We are going to need to be patient. This is a classic evolution of a pattern like this with the polar vortex dropping south before it elongates. Everybody will start screaming cold and dry, cold and dry, the pattern busted, etc etc. And all of a sudden as the PV moves north and/or elongates, you'll start seeing the parade of threats showing up on the model guidance. It is almost like an instant replay every time we go through a pattern like this.

 

Patience, patience, patience.

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We are going to need to be patient. This is a classic evolution of a pattern like this with the polar vortex dropping south before it elongates. Everybody will start screaming cold and dry, cold and dry, the pattern busted, etc etc. And all of a sudden as the PV moves north and/or elongates, you'll start seeing the parade of threats showing up on the model guidance. It is almost like an instant replay every time we go through a pattern like this.

 

Patience, patience, patience.

 

Agreed, it will only be bad luck that we don't see much.

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We are going to need to be patient. This is a classic evolution of a pattern like this with the polar vortex dropping south before it elongates. Everybody will start screaming cold and dry, cold and dry, the pattern busted, etc etc. And all of a sudden as the PV moves north and/or elongates, you'll start seeing the parade of threats showing up on the model guidance. It is almost like an instant replay every time we go through a pattern like this.

Patience, patience, patience.

Absolutely totally agree, this pattern as far as storm potential should be peaking as we head closer to february as the PV shouldnt be so overwhelming while still having the cold air supply readily available for the coastal threats should they decide to develop.

Also the wild card is the stratospheric warming whether or not it helps to establish more than transient blocking as we head closer to february to aid in east coast bombogenesis and not having the pattern so progressive. Key words with this pattern-patience and baby steps

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