pazzo83 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 That tree has survived more than one bout of near zero degree days and -15 nights. Impressive for a southern tree. It certainly proves nothing with respect to the Koppen debate. Even palm trees can survive short term exposure to extreme cold. It's the day-after-day below freezing temps that render environments hostile for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I was ranting about the absurd histrionics coming from the media as if it was the end of the world.people kept throwing 94 around yet the severity of the cold wasn't close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 That tree has survived more than one bout of near zero degree days and -15 nights. Impressive for a southern tree. It certainly proves nothing with respect to the Koppen debate. It doesn't prove anything as far as the climate debate goes, but it shows that NYC is fully capable of supporting subtropical flora, even before the heat island. If subzero temperatures were the norm, as they are in continental climates, the tree wouldn't have lasted over 100 years (and counting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 people kept throwing 94 around yet the severity of the cold wasn't close this winter was impressive for the duration of below normal temps... funny how we keep getting persistent blocking patterns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 this winter was impressive for the duration of below normal temps... funny how we keep getting persistent blocking patterns Yep, that is the remarkable thing. Not necessarily the severity but the long duration. Lots of "# of days" records set in the upper midwest, like Green Bay setting its own record for # of subzero days, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Yep, that is the remarkable thing. Not necessarily the severity but the long duration. Lots of "# of days" records set in the upper midwest, like Green Bay setting its own record for # of subzero days, etc.over a year and counting with persistent pacific ridging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB GFI Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 . Why all the warm water south of Alaska ? All that high pressure for so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian5671 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Steve d says this storm will not be major. Just some light snow after seeing the 12z GFS. Prepare for a HECS if that's what he's saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYY_2 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Can someone elaborate as to what PDII is? I hear it a lot on this site and was just wondering what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDMK6GLI Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Can someone elaborate as to what PDII is? I hear it a lot on this site and was just wondering what it is. Presidents Day 2 blizzard. happened presidents day weekend in 2003. Top 3 on the NESIS chart all time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_blizzard_of_2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYY_2 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Presidents Day 2 blizzard. happened presidents day weekend in 2003. Top 3 on the NESIS chart all time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_blizzard_of_2003 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It doesn't prove anything as far as the climate debate goes, but it shows that NYC is fully capable of supporting subtropical flora, even before the heat island. If subzero temperatures were the norm, as they are in continental climates, the tree wouldn't have lasted over 100 years (and counting). But sub zero temperatures were fairly common during part of that trees life span. This is a wonderful example of a hardy southern tree but its quite a stretch to say it shows NYC supports sub-tropical flora. Some individuals of a species, not to mention various cultivars can withstand more severe conditions than others. In recent years they have bred crape myrtles that can live in cold climates. Plant hardiness is based on minimum temperatures and the magnolia tree that grows in Brooklyn has survived -15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlover74 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Pretty cool: http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/03/10/meteorologist-behind-hurricane-scale-robert-simpson-honored-at-101-years-of-age/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think Monday's potential storm will lead to widespread disappointment. I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDMK6GLI Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think Monday's potential storm will lead to widespread disappointment. I hope I'm wrong. eh if it does this winter is still going to be going down in history as one of the snowiest and coldest. Mondays storm would just add to the historical importance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It doesn't prove anything as far as the climate debate goes, but it shows that NYC is fully capable of supporting subtropical flora, even before the heat island. If subzero temperatures were the norm, as they are in continental climates, the tree wouldn't have lasted over 100 years (and counting). I guess Chicago and Cleveland are subtropical too: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/mwgard/msg0501313510986.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 eh if it does this winter is still going to be going down in history as one of the snowiest and coldest. Mondays storm would just add to the historical importance Yeah, I understand. I haven't seen a real flake of snow in over three weeks. The cold has been amazing, so I guess you can't have it both ways most of the time, but I would really like to see just one last plowable event. February 13th is a bit of a lackluster date to end the snow season on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDMK6GLI Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Yeah, I understand. I haven't seen a real flake of snow in over three weeks. The cold has been amazing, so I guess you can't have it both ways most of the time, but I would really like to see just one last plowable event. February 13th is a bit of a lackluster date to end the snow season on. totally agree. I still don't think including you that Monday we're going to get shafted unlike last week. the trends have been pretty encouraging today, and I would say 3" for us is a safe bet right now. BUT if that LP comes up the coast it would be challenging 95-96' for sure but that is pushing it currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Claus Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Does anyone believe the 15 inches snow for Long Island is real or has decent potential next week. Our chance to get to #1 snow season from 95-96 has went up considerably. I bet this is our NESIS 5 HECS from NYC to Boston with 24-30 inch snowfall widespread. The support for a HECS next week based on the pattern is very strong with full phase potential and 8-1 MJO. Blizzard anyone. GGEM is 15-30 inches of snow for N PA, N NJ and NYC LI. March 1956 part II. Do you believe it mets ?? I love this guy and his utterly unbridled enthusiasm for the most extreme scenario literally all the time. His posts are always formatted the same way and I wonder if he talks like this all the time. "Daddy, what's for dinner?" "I honestly think we will see a NESIS 5 turkey dinner tonight with 24 inches of mashed potatoes between PHL and BOS. Ensembles are showing a pile of green beans which will last into May. Tonight's top analog is November 2008 with stuffing that wasn't cleared for a week. Mets please comment. Models showing digestion lasting into June. Could this be the biggest gastrointestinal disaster since the Prime Rib Event of 1993? The media is not doing enough to warn people about this dinner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongBeachSurfFreak Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I love this guy and his utterly unbridled enthusiasm for the most extreme scenario literally all the time. His posts are always formatted the same way and I wonder if he talks like this all the time. "Daddy, what's for dinner?" "I honestly think we will see a NESIS 5 turkey dinner tonight with 24 inches of mashed potatoes between PHL and BOS. Ensembles are showing a pile of green beans which will last into May. Tonight's top analog is November 2008 with stuffing that wasn't cleared for a week. Mets please comment. Models showing digestion lasting into June. Could this be the biggest gastrointestinal disaster since the Prime Rib Event of 1993? The media is not doing enough to warn people about this dinner." Nice! He is a great addition to this board regardless of the outlandish calls! I can't wait for mall snow piles on Memorial Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan76 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I love this guy and his utterly unbridled enthusiasm for the most extreme scenario literally all the time. His posts are always formatted the same way and I wonder if he talks like this all the time. "Daddy, what's for dinner?" "I honestly think we will see a NESIS 5 turkey dinner tonight with 24 inches of mashed potatoes between PHL and BOS. Ensembles are showing a pile of green beans which will last into May. Tonight's top analog is November 2008 with stuffing that wasn't cleared for a week. Mets please comment. Models showing digestion lasting into June. Could this be the biggest gastrointestinal disaster since the Prime Rib Event of 1993? The media is not doing enough to warn people about this dinner." Son of Jebman??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonClaw Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 00z in a nutshell http://i.imgur.com/zSemphu.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 But sub zero temperatures were fairly common during part of that trees life span. This is a wonderful example of a hardy southern tree but its quite a stretch to say it shows NYC supports sub-tropical flora. It isn't a stretch at all, the climate of NYC does allow for some subtropical vegetation. It's not hospitable to every subtropical plant, but a lot can and do survive. Some individuals of a species, not to mention various cultivars can withstand more severe conditions than others. In recent years they have bred crape myrtles that can live in cold climates. True, but many of those special cultivars wouldn't be necessary in NYC. Regular crepe myrtles, southern magnolias, sabal minors, etc. can do just fine. If you wanted to grow something citrus, you'd need a special cultivar though. Plant hardiness is based on minimum temperatures and the magnolia tree that grows in Brooklyn has survived -15. While plant hardiness ratings are usually based solely on minimum temperatures, there are other factors such as the duration of the cold, precipitation, humidity, wind, etc. that can determine a plant's outcome. A lot of magnolias in the south have seen their fair share of subzero temperatures as well. And I'm sure that -15F did some significant damage, it wouldn't survive in a climate where those temperatures are the usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I guess Chicago and Cleveland are subtropical too: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/mwgard/msg0501313510986.html They aren't, and you can't really compare a special cold-hardy southern magnolia planted in Chicago (in 2005) against a real deal southern magnolia planted in NYC (in 1885). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliancolton Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 00z in a nutshell http://i.imgur.com/zSemphu.gif http://i.imgur.com/89HANHg.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 They aren't, and you can't really compare a special cold-hardy southern magnolia planted in Chicago (in 2005) against a real deal southern magnolia planted in NYC (in 1885).Not any more than you can site it as proof NYC is a sub tropical climate. Enjoy your umbrella drinks under the palms.PS. Where do you think the breeding stock for cold hardy magnolia come from? The plants that have proven they can survive in the Everglades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I love this guy and his utterly unbridled enthusiasm for the most extreme scenario literally all the time. His posts are always formatted the same way and I wonder if he talks like this all the time. "Daddy, what's for dinner?" "I honestly think we will see a NESIS 5 turkey dinner tonight with 24 inches of mashed potatoes between PHL and BOS. Ensembles are showing a pile of green beans which will last into May. Tonight's top analog is November 2008 with stuffing that wasn't cleared for a week. Mets please comment. Models showing digestion lasting into June. Could this be the biggest gastrointestinal disaster since the Prime Rib Event of 1993? The media is not doing enough to warn people about this dinner." This is excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo83 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Not any more than you can site it as proof NYC is a sub tropical climate. Enjoy your umbrella drinks under the palms. PS. Where do you think the breeding stock for cold hardy magnolia come from? The plants that have proven they can survive in the Everglades? Dude, give it up. NYC is under the subtropical climate Koppen classification. This is not my opinion, or yours. It is a fact. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikehobbyst Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Do you think we can dethrone 3/1956 or 3/1993 blizzards for Long Island ??? I don't think we will beat 3/1888 ? I am going with 12-15 inch snow for LI that may last for two weeks with Arctic cold locked in from 3/17-3/30 most of the time... The sun will do about one inch per day damage, even if we stay in the 20's each day from 3/17 to 3/30, so we'll be down to 2 inches with bare spots by the end of the month no matter what.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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