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Central PA - December 2013


PennMan

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700mb is at -1c

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/mesoanalysis/new/viewsector.php?sector=16#

Check it out yourself. 850mb 0c is just barely north of SC.

 

 

And they don't plot 800mb, which is probably +1C (but falling), hence the rain/sleet mix instead of a rain/snow mix. ;)

 

Keep in mind the SPC fields are just the 1 hour forecast from the RAP. Its not always 100% accurate. Per RAP soundings near State College look to still have a warm nose between 850 and 700 hPa. The good news is that despite the fact that its a pretty thick layer its only about 1-2 deg C deep, which will easily be overcome by melting snow (as long as the precipitation rates ramp up)

 

RAP_255_2013120621_F01_40.5000N_77.5000W

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Keep in mind the SPC fields are just the 1 hour forecast from the RAP. Its not always 100% accurate. Per RAP soundings near State College look to still have a warm nose between 850 and 700 hPa. The good news is that despite the fact that its a pretty thick layer its only about 1-2 deg C deep, which will easily be overcome by melting snow (as long as the precipitation rates ramp up)

 

RAP_255_2013120621_F01_40.5000N_77.5000W

That's just it. Seems like, at the moment, the best rates are passing to our south.

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Getting a bit of a bad feeling about this.

 

I'm not worried. Models didn't have the changeover 'til 00z plus or minus an hour or so. Johnstown and Clearfield are already over to snow and they weren't supposed to be for another hour or two yet. We'll be good. ^_^

Exactly. I think State College is in a great spot for some of the best snow from this. It should be a fun 4-6 hours. I don't think UNV was the jackpot/lollipop once in all the time I lived there!! Just have to bear some patience.

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No one here is negative, you're just being a weenie and people don't like that. Arguing with a met's analysis is generally poor form.

Yes I'm being a weenie, but I'm not arguing the analysis. Was a former Met student myself at PSU. Things are interpreted based off one's perspective. I was not trying to be disrespectful in any matter.

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in the 700-800mb layer it is not like 1000-900 where precip falling though it can help cool.... the 700-800mb layer can hurt snow growth in the clouds... hence the sleet

 

The snow growth region is based upon where temperatures are between ~12-18 deg C. This can oscillate quite a bit between different systems or even during the same event. In this case its up around 550-450 hPa. Ice melting is always an endothermic reaction which extracts heat from the atmosphere. The net impact is cooling of the surrounding atmosphere where ice particles are melting. 

 

The reason why there is sleet is because below this above freezing layer (in which ice crystals are melting) the precipitation is refreezing in the 1000-850 hPa cold pool. Refreezing water is an exothermic reaction which releases heat. However, this is not resulting in rising temperatures near the surface because there is CAA near the surface (note the NW winds advecting colder low-level temperatures from further NW). Thus in marginal thermodynamic cases such as this, the precipitation rate plays a key role in modulating the vertical profile of the atmosphere. If you get heavy enough precipitation, the melting in the warm nose can modify this portion of the profile to isothermal, allowing snow to exist all the way to the surface. 

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sleet in  Wilkes-Barre, Temp is 34.5

 

I have a theory of how sleet forms: the snowflakes are the daddies (because they are sooooo cool) and the rain drops are the mommies (how many of you saw your mommy shed tears), they get together and baby sleets are born.  Again I am not a met and I could be wrong....

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The snow growth region is based upon where temperatures are between ~12-18 deg C. This can oscillate quite a bit between different systems or even during the same event. In this case its up around 550-450 hPa. Ice melting is always an endothermic reaction which extracts heat from the atmosphere. The net impact is cooling of the surrounding atmosphere where ice particles are melting. 

 

The reason why there is sleet is because below this above freezing layer (in which ice crystals are melting) the precipitation is refreezing in the 1000-850 hPa cold pool. Refreezing water is an exothermic reaction which releases heat. However, this is not resulting in rising temperatures near the surface because there is CAA near the surface (note the NW winds advecting colder low-level temperatures from further NW). Thus in marginal thermodynamic cases such as this, the precipitation rate plays a key role in modulating the vertical profile of the atmosphere. If you get heavy enough precipitation, the melting in the warm nose can modify this portion of the profile to isothermal, allowing snow to exist all the way to the surface. 

yea i re-read what i posted and tried to delete before anyone saw lol

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