Geos Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Chicago would be the perfect winter climate for you. They see a little less snowfall and snowcover than Detroit but have a higher chance of 12"+ storm. But I cant believe YOU of all people didnt cite your favorite stat Chicago gets more winter sun than Detroit. Northern suburbs do quite well ... as you can tell from my statistics in my signature. Closer to I-80 you get the more drastic the snowfall tally range becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 lol....is the guy in front seated at the table eating beef jerky? lol snack on jerky while watching monster blizzards every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 What other location are you comparing DTW to? Josh will set you straight and help you see this from a statistical, geographical and climological standpoint. Hell the guy probably has this debate copy and pasted on his PC for use once a year. I should save a copy! Would save a lot of keystrokes lol. Snowfall AND warning criteria snowstorms (6"+) are well above the longterm average since 2000. Theres really no way to debate that, the stats are very readily accessible. (If anything, I should mention the measuring at times from 2002-2006 was terrible at DTW, lowball-wise, idk if it was the faa contractors at the time or what....but i can tell you that proper care was not put into measurments at that time as it was in the old days). Detroits biggest snowstorms list is not impressive. Our geographic location does not support massive storms, only in rare instances (it is this same location that helps us get involved with so many different types of Ls, which is why we see frequent snowfall more than most non-snowbelt or non-mountain areas of the country). If you want to compare to other places, fine. Its already been done a million times on here, and Detroits list is nothing to brag about. HOWEVER...keep it fair. A pet peeve of mine is when a storm will hit a certain area, we hear of the highest totals in that area, and someone will say something like "KC got 13"...Detroit hasnt hit 12"+ since 2005 and just barely" or something like that. You will go to that city's PNS, and see that the official station got 8 or 9", but neary burbs had some 13" reports. I see it done here all the time, and thats an uneven match. I can pull up a ton of different storms where Detroits burbs got 12-16" and DTW got less than 12". For me...it is kind of funny when I see how my biggest storms since I started measuring in 1995 are close to each other. Ive hit 10"+ six times: 12.0" - Jan 2/3, 1999 (11.3" DTW) 11.5" - Feb 22/23, 2003 (7.6" DTW) 11.0" - Jan 22, 2005 (12.2 DTW) 10.3" - Mar 4/5, 2008 (7.5" DTW) 10.2" - Feb 20/21, 2011 (10.2" DTW) 10.1" - Feb 1/2, 2011 (10.3" DTW) Im almost positive my 1999 total is too low. I was so excited from the storm I just measured way before it was done and just guessed the total. Terribly irresponsible of me in my early weather days lol, but looking at pics (there was only 1" of snow on the ground before the storm) I have a hard time believing it was only 12". Another storm I probably saw 13-14" was Jan 14, 1992. Saw pics, looks way more than a foot (ground was bare before storm), DTW had 11.1" but Monroe did report 13-14". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Northern suburbs do quite well ... as you can tell from my statistics in my signature. Closer to I-80 you get the more drastic the snowfall tally range becomes. Yeah is same with Detroit. Northern Oakland co averages like 55" with noticably more snowcover too. I was just doing a quick DTW to ORD comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Pull up a map of the event, Howell registered 7 inches.... I lived 6 miles south of the airport and measured around 6.... Round it up to 7 if you want, its still crap either way. I would move then, since you are in a snow hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I have placed a topic in the general forum regarding the revised NWS snow measurement guide... http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/41853-new-nws-snow-measurement-guide/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TugHillMatt Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 That was an eyesore! "cringe"... I remember gnashing teeth during that time period...the little donut hole can be seen stretching into my area. After mid-January though, the winter rocked. We made it to our average of 90 to 100 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm8 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If I did an overlay of the last 30 years and all the total accumulations nationwide, there would be a gap over southern Michigan... We have been horrifically screwed compared to most surrounding areas. If anyone can find a source for maps/GIS data with seasonal total snowfall...I could try to take a crack at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If anyone can find a source for maps/GIS data with seasonal total snowfall...I could try to take a crack at this I believe he meant big storm total snowfall not seasonal and thus see what Josh posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The nice part about Chicago is that you're in a good location for both monster events and constant snowcover/snowfall. Chicago has seen about 16 snowstorms that dumped 12" of more (10 of which were 14"+), whereas Detroit has only seen 11 snowstorms that dumped 12" or more (only 4 of which were 14"+). It may not happen as frequently as on the east coast, but Chicago is by far one of the best places for major synoptic snowstorms outside of the east coast in our sub-forum (in terms of both frequency and intensity). And of course the trade off is not only a lot of snowcover/snowfall days to tote, but also a much better severe weather season in the Summer. Intensity I would agree, but I can name several cities in our subforum better for big events: Milwaukee, Madison, Traverse City (granted maybe not talking just synoptic snowfall but they tend to cash in well on the same events that Milwaukee and Madison do), Minneapolis (suppose that may not be counted). Not sure if I'd rather have Chicago or Detroit's climo overall. Lately it seems Chicago has had more hot and dry (read worst weather) conditions than Detroit, 2012 being a prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 This whole overall climo debate got me interested so I looked around for some info. I'm going to post some maps that show average annual number of thunderstorm days, average annual tornado frequency and average annual snowfall. Obviously this is only one of many possible ways to evaluate things. I'm not sure what the averaging period is for snow and thunderstorm days. First off, average annual snowfall (this map looks a bit off in some areas compared to current averages but good enough) Average annual thunderstorm days Average annual tornado frequency 1950-1995 Average annual tornado frequency 1953-2004 Average annual tornado frequency 1991-2010 If you don't have a preference one way or another and enjoy snow and thunderstorms (including severe storms) about the same, then the area in the southern Lakes/northern Ohio Valley offers a nice overlap. Farther north gets more snow but the tradeoff is less thunderstorms. I've always thought that the N IN/SW MI snowbelt area offers a great combination...they average 50-75" of snow (even more in the MI part) with a relatively high frequency of thunder/severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 This whole overall climo debate got me interested so I looked around for some info. I'm going to post some maps that show average annual number of thunderstorm days, average annual tornado frequency and average annual snowfall. Obviously this is only one of many possible ways to evaluate things. I'm not sure what the averaging period is for snow and thunderstorm days. First off, average annual snowfall (this map looks a bit off in some areas compared to current averages but good enough) Untitled.png Average annual thunderstorm days tstrm_climo.jpg Average annual tornado frequency 1950-1995 Average_Annual_Tornado_Reports.jpg Average annual tornado frequency 1953-2004 torfreq.jpg Average annual tornado frequency 1991-2010 tor1991to2010.jpg If you don't have a preference one way or another and enjoy snow and thunderstorms (including severe storms) about the same, then the area in the southern Lakes/northern Ohio Valley offers a nice overlap. Farther north gets more snow but the tradeoff is less thunderstorms. I've always thought that the N IN/SW MI snowbelt area offers a great combination...they average 50-75" of snow (even more in the MI part) with a relatively high frequency of thunder/severe. Based on seasonal norms between here and Kalamazoo/Bloomingdale i figure you gain about a inch ( maybe slightly more ) for every mile you go west of here ( 61.5" here ) towards the lake till you reach Bloomingdale ( 95.3" ) which is in Van Buren. Unsure of how this works out further sw/s? The area west of i-69 and along i80/90 ( or better yet say along/west of state hwy 66 in MI/Or 9 in N.IN down to US 20 ) is about as good as it gets for having severe storms, decent seasonal snowfall and decent big snow storm dumps ( Be it LES or a bomb ) combined. The hottest spot would include Kalamazoo, Van Buren, Berrien, Cass, St. Joseph counties in MI and La Porte, Lagrange, Elkhart, St. Joseph counties in Indiana. Porter county IN ( think of the single band LES events ) and Allegan and Barry county in MI are not too shabby either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Intensity I would agree, but I can name several cities in our subforum better for big events: Milwaukee, Madison, Traverse City (granted maybe not talking just synoptic snowfall but they tend to cash in well on the same events that Milwaukee and Madison do), Minneapolis (suppose that may not be counted). Not sure if I'd rather have Chicago or Detroit's climo overall. Lately it seems Chicago has had more hot and dry (read worst weather) conditions than Detroit, 2012 being a prime example. Chicago's training MCS and derecho game has been locked up tight the last decade or so...best summer weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Chicago's training MCS and derecho game has been locked up tight the last decade or so...best summer weather. Thus what can make the heat all worthwhile. Detroit has missed alot of them if i recall correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The complaint thread is less than 24 hours old and is already 3 pages long. lol Let's have some fun this winter!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Thus what can make the heat all worthwhile. Detroit has missed alot of them if i recall correctly? Yep, partially because we're east of the lakes. Since June 2008, the closest we've to a legit MCS/Derecho event was 7/5/12 and 7/29/13. Granted, we've had a few decent multicellular severe weather events (7/4/12, 9/6/13, 7/19/13, 8/30/13, 8/24/11, etc.) We've just been missing out on the MCS/Derechos lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAFF Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 This tread reminds me of recess. An opportunity to let some steam out and play in order to get back inside and work well with others. My personal fav is the 3 weeks until the days start getting longer. While the first day of winter is exciting for is just the beginning the ugly truth is its the beginning of the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisale Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The complaint thread is less than 24 hours old and is already 3 pages long. lol Let's have some fun this winter!!!! Complaint thread already longer than December 2013 discussion thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Since this is basically banter... Pay no attention to the long range operational GFS, it looks BRUTAL. Ensembles aren't great either, but nowhere near as bad as the operational GFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Since this is basically banter... Pay no attention to the long range operational GFS, it looks BRUTAL. Ensembles aren't great either, but nowhere near as bad as the operational GFS. sounds like a legit complaint for the complaint thread, punt 'till January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbertfly Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 what??? this doesn't look fun?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbertfly Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 sounds like a legit complaint for the complaint thread, punt 'till January 2013......the year of the Christmas Blockbuster Barn Burner Blizzard...get your tickets now everything gonna be alright .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 what??? this doesn't look fun?!? USA_APTMPF_2m_171.gif Whoa! lol Pay no attention to the man behind the GFS curtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 sounds like a legit complaint for the complaint thread, punt 'till January That is most definitely not legit, and I'm one of the bigger pessimists on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Illinois Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 what??? this doesn't look fun?!? lol yikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 lol yikes Eh, no big deal, -20 to -30F wind chills during mid morning, been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbertfly Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Eh, no big deal, -20 to -30F wind chills during mid morning, been there, done that. feel bad for the diehard kite fliers....maybe i'll do it for S & G's ... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 feel bad for the diehard kite fliers....maybe i'll do it for S & G's ... lol No one is telling them they have to take advantage of arctic blasts to fly their kite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo6899 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Hopefully some cold sector precip with the storm early next week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Derecho climo: Total events from 1980-2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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