wisconsinwx Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm really starting to appreciate my climo as well. For someone with my and many other people on this forum's preferences, it doesn't get much better than the Lakes. We get a bit more snow than most of the East Coast, fewer all out winter torches, are not as cold and dry during the middle of winter as the Northern Plains (usually), rarely go a week without a system to track, even if it is a cold rain, have reasonable summers where we can generally escape extreme heat (unless you live inland), and have more frequent t'storms than the other areas that have a snowy climo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 The deck is being shuffled toward the end of the run (12z) with a warmer pattern about to commence. Whether it verifies, whether it doesn't, whether it gets delayed, we'll see. It seems unlikely that we'll have 100 days in a row of -EPO so when it relaxes, we'll need help from elsewhere. I think 1 or 2 storms defining a season is more applicable on the east coast/I-95. Our big dog climo isn't as good as theirs. Other than 1998-99 (blizzard of '99) and 2006-2007 (VD) I can't really think of other recent examples of a storm defining a season. Edit: I guess you could include the storm in late March of this year. WI/IL/MO/parts of MI (not myself) members would say GHD 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 How far do you have to go to see snow from a typical LES with a NNW flow in Indiana? I know with a N wind Lafayette can pick up accumulation too. Depends what you mean. Heaviest amounts are usually confined to within a county or two of the lake but light stuff can make it toward Logansport/Kokomo and sometimes farther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 WI/IL/MO/parts of MI (not myself) members would say GHD 2011. the older i get the more single monster events matter over dull metrics like season totals and days with snow cover....who really cares if you string together a month with 3" of snow on the ground. Which is why the east coast owns the midwest in terms of winter climo....crap summers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Useless thread and those who are complaining should stop. Disagree. I almost started this thread myself yesterday in honor of the beginning of met winter. It is a good place to blow off steam and for general chatter, as well as some place to send people cluttering up legit threads. I'm really starting to appreciate my climo as well. For someone with my and many other people on this forum's preferences, it doesn't get much better than the Lakes. We get a bit more snow than most of the East Coast, fewer all out winter torches, are not as cold and dry during the middle of winter as the Northern Plains (usually), rarely go a week without a system to track, even if it is a cold rain, have reasonable summers where we can generally escape extreme heat (unless you live inland), and have more frequent t'storms than the other areas that have a snowy climo. One of your better posts. Ironic that it's in the complaint thread. How far do you have to go to see snow from a typical LES with a NNW flow in Indiana? I know with a N wind Lafayette can pick up accumulation too. I'm 90 miles from the lake, and I have seen as much as 4". I probably get more LES than Hoosier even though we are a similar distance due to more 300°-330° events. A typical LES here is a DAB - 2". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 WI/IL/MO/parts of MI (not myself) members would say GHD 2011. the older i get the more single monster events matter over dull metrics like season totals and days with snow cover....who really cares if you string together a month with 3" of snow on the ground. Which is why the east coast owns the midwest in terms of winter climo....crap summers thought. Big dog storms are nice, but I would only appreciate them if I was in the higher terrain, like western Massachusetts or NH/VT.... I'm an outdoor winter enthusiast, either snowmobiling or skiing... you just can't have regular torches and melts with that type of usage. My machine rides on 10 (4 inch) storms the same way it rides on one 36 inch storm. If I was just an observer, I would probably be in the hunt for a big dog... But they just don't happen here. I have never done any scientific research on it, but I believe storms begin to go negative tilt at an unfavorable distance from the ocean and rob us of moisture. We rarely have sustained heavy snow here, pockets of weak snowfall rates generally kill our chances at impressive totals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Big dog storms are nice, but I would only appreciate them if I was in the higher terrain, like western Massachusetts or NH/VT.... I'm an outdoor winter enthusiast, either snowmobiling or skiing... you just can't have regular torches and melts with that type of usage. My machine rides on 10 (4 inch) storms the same way it rides on one 36 inch storm. If I was just an observer, I would probably be in the hunt for a big dog... But they just don't happen here. I have never done any scientific research on it, but I believe storms begin to go negative tilt at an unfavorable distance from the ocean and rob us of moisture. We rarely have sustained heavy snow here, pockets of weak snowfall rates generally kill our chances at impressive totals. Josh would beg to differ and so would I about rates during synoptic systems. We have had plenty of +SN and low vis observations in the last 5-10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rent Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm 90 miles from the lake, and I have seen as much as 4". I probably get more LES than Hoosier even though we are a similar distance due to more 300°-330° events. A typical LES here is a DAB - 2". Yep, Down here in Anderson we can get a couple of inches out of it. I think I have seen up to 3 or 4 once or twice. I don't know our distance here, but a good 60 miles south of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone77 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Weather is like food, everyone has their preferences, but no one is really every right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Josh would beg to differ and so would I about rates during synoptic systems. We have had plenty of +SN and low vis observations in the last 5-10 years. If I did an overlay of the last 30 years and all the total accumulations nationwide, there would be a gap over southern Michigan... We have been horrifically screwed compared to most surrounding areas. I will make a composite image of the last 30 years and post it, I just need to do some research. Toss out Jan 99'... I personally got 6 inches from that one. Dec 11th and 12th 2000 at 15 inches has been Livingston counties biggest snow since the mid 1970's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm referring to individual storms, not total seasonal snowfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Weather is like food, everyone has their preferences, but no one is really every right or wrong. Big Dogs 4 Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherbo Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 .....really? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The deck is being shuffled toward the end of the run (12z) with a warmer pattern about to commence. Whether it verifies, whether it doesn't, whether it gets delayed, we'll see. It seems unlikely that we'll have 100 days in a row of -EPO so when it relaxes, we'll need help from elsewhere. I think 1 or 2 storms defining a season is more applicable on the east coast/I-95. Our big dog climo isn't as good as theirs. Other than 1998-99 (blizzard of '99) and 2006-2007 (VD) I can't really think of other recent examples of a storm defining a season. Edit: I guess you could include the storm in late March of this year. I agree. Its stupid to compare winter here and there because its two totally different climates. A winter here can never been defined by an event. A winter here with one massive snowstorm and next to nothing the rest of the winter (that will never happen with our climate lol just using it as an example) would be an absolute failure for us...it would be a win for the east. I will never forget the Detroit News article at the end of Jan 1999 after our 2 foot snowpack was torched away to piles over just a few weeks, it had winter enthusiasts complaining about all the mud and stuff, how it was ruining winter, blah blah. And look how people in this region get when we arent covered in snow by Nov 1st or Dec 1st....lets go all through winter then get a 18-inch storm in Feb for a total of 1 week of snow on the ground. Some people may be fine with that, but anyone who likes a Michigan winter for what it is, winter, would hate such a winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 the older i get the more single monster events matter over dull metrics like season totals and days with snow cover....who really cares if you string together a month with 3" of snow on the ground. Which is why the east coast owns the midwest in terms of winter climo....crap summers thought. The nice part about Chicago is that you're in a good location for both monster events and constant snowcover/snowfall. Chicago has seen about 16 snowstorms that dumped 12" of more (10 of which were 14"+), whereas Detroit has only seen 11 snowstorms that dumped 12" or more (only 4 of which were 14"+). It may not happen as frequently as on the east coast, but Chicago is by far one of the best places for major synoptic snowstorms outside of the east coast in our sub-forum (in terms of both frequency and intensity). And of course the trade off is not only a lot of snowcover/snowfall days to tote, but also a much better severe weather season in the Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Josh would beg to differ and so would I about rates during synoptic systems. We have had plenty of +SN and low vis observations in the last 5-10 years. We have had a ton of rates in synoptic storms of 2-3"/hr over the last decade. Areas well NW of Detroit had 4"/hr rates in Jan 2008. And of course, any of us getting caught in a whiteout snow squall (which is all of us in this area at one time or another) that easily have 2-4"/hr rates. Problem is they dont last for more than a few hours. The problem for many is they look at a storm as nothing more than total snowfall amount, so the excitement of the storm goes for naught. I saw the most amazing thundersnow here Mar 4, 2008 & Feb 20, 2011, better than a summer storm, with tremendous rates, but I guess since both storms dropped 10-11" instead of 18" i should toss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If I did an overlay of the last 30 years and all the total accumulations nationwide, there would be a gap over southern Michigan... We have been horrifically screwed compared to most surrounding areas. I will make a composite image of the last 30 years and post it, I just need to do some research. Toss out Jan 99'... I personally got 6 inches from that one. Dec 11th and 12th 2000 at 15 inches has been Livingston counties biggest snow since the mid 1970's. Well, if you are referring to total snowfall, or total snowfall relative to normal, both cases would be a 100% fail, as snow has increased over southern MI more than many if not most areas in the country over the last 30 years. There actually was a chart posted somewhere (I posted it here a few months ago but cant find it EDIT found it and posted below) that had a change in frequency of rain vs snow events, and some other snow stat, and S MI was literally leading the country. Have to do some digging. If you are talking about isolating the total accumulations of big snowstorms, sounds to me like an almost impossible task, not to mention one with massive error margin. I could see maybe doing the biggest snowstorm, but other than that sounds like an impossible task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The nice part about Chicago is that you're in a good location for both monster events and constant snowcover/snowfall. Chicago has seen about 16 snowstorms that dumped 12" of more (10 of which were 14"+), whereas Detroit has only seen 11 snowstorms that dumped 12" or more (only 4 of which were 14"+). It may not happen as frequently as on the east coast, but Chicago is by far one of the best places for major synoptic snowstorms outside of the east coast in our sub-forum (in terms of both frequency and intensity). And of course the trade off is not only a lot of snowcover/snowfall days to tote, but also a much better severe weather season in the Summer. Chicago would be the perfect winter climate for you. They see a little less snowfall and snowcover than Detroit but have a higher chance of 12"+ storm. But I cant believe YOU of all people didnt cite your favorite stat Chicago gets more winter sun than Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbertfly Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 One of my favorite.....yet not favorite images from last winter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 One of my favorite.....yet not favorite images from last winter.... MODIS.jpg Reverse GHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbertfly Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Big Dogs 4 Life lol....is the guy in front seated at the table eating beef jerky? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 One of my favorite.....yet not favorite images from last winter.... MODIS.jpg I saved that one too only because it looked so funny. WIll not be funny for whoever ends up in the next snow hole like that. Hopefully none of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If I did an overlay of the last 30 years and all the total accumulations nationwide, there would be a gap over southern Michigan... We have been horrifically screwed compared to most surrounding areas. I will make a composite image of the last 30 years and post it, I just need to do some research. Toss out Jan 99'... I personally got 6 inches from that one. Dec 11th and 12th 2000 at 15 inches has been Livingston counties biggest snow since the mid 1970's. As a lifelong follower and keeper of local weather data, myself and a few others on here could prove this wrong. I understand your frusteration with local climate and its lack of a big dogs. But there is no such screwzone and this has debated and proven by many on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 24.5 inches April 6, 1886 19.3 inches December 1 – 2, 1974 Tie: 14.0 inches March 4 – 5, 1900 and February 28 - March 1, 1900 13.8 inches December 18 – 19, 1929 12.8 inches February 12 – 13, 1894 12.6 inches February 19, 1908 12.5 inches January 31 - February 1, 1881 Tie: 12.3 inches on February 9, 1911 and March 3 – 4, 1895 12.2 inches January 22-23, 2005 12.1 inches January 13-14, 1927 That's DTW. Personally, I have only seen 12 inches fall one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Oh and how did you not get 12+ in 1999, everyone North of the city did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 24.5 inches April 6, 1886 19.3 inches December 1 – 2, 1974 Tie: 14.0 inches March 4 – 5, 1900 and February 28 - March 1, 1900 13.8 inches December 18 – 19, 1929 12.8 inches February 12 – 13, 1894 12.6 inches February 19, 1908 12.5 inches January 31 - February 1, 1881 Tie: 12.3 inches on February 9, 1911 and March 3 – 4, 1895 12.2 inches January 22-23, 2005 12.1 inches January 13-14, 1927 That's DTW.Personally, I have only seen 12 inches fall one time. What other location are you comparing DTW to? Josh will set you straight and help you see this from a statistical, geographical and climological standpoint. Hell the guy probably has this debate copy and pasted on his PC for use once a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Illinois Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 5 parts this year over or under? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Oh and how did you not get 12+ in 1999, everyone North of the city did. Pull up a map of the event, Howell registered 7 inches.... I lived 6 miles south of the airport and measured around 6.... Round it up to 7 if you want, its still crap either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 One of my favorite.....yet not favorite images from last winter.... MODIS.jpg That was an eyesore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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