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Dec 8th - 9th (2nd wave/winter storm discussion)


Zelocita Weather

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They can be interesting from a research meteorological perspective but the impacts can be awful so I agree. Snow is fun, ice is deadly.

 

 

Strongly disagree. I think trees coated with ice is the most spectacular sight when it comes to extreme weather. And while not as deadly as ice, snow is deadly. People die every year from shoveling snow and car accidents on snowy roads. The fact that extreme weather kills doesn't stop weather enthusiasts from enjoying it.

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Weather bell precip type maps show everything changing over to rain from East Central PA south and east by 129 hrs and by 132 hrs all is rain in PA and NJ... 

 

 

Like I keep reading, the models are going to have a tough time displaying how long the CAD will stick around. Will flip and flop several more times before Sunday. I'm about 15 minutes from ABE myself so I'm hoping for the same stuff you are. Also what happened to that 3rd wave people were talking about on the 12z gfs? 

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The coast holds frozen a solid amount of time atleast a frozen type of precip and on each run the CAD signature is getting stronger and stronger which was to be expected.

Why was this to be expected? It's only stronger because the high to the north does not move right out into the Atlantic as quickly. If the high moves right on out, the CAD signature will be weaker.

WX/PT

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Why was this to be expected? It's only stronger because the high to the north does not move right out into the Atlantic as quickly. If the high moves right on out, the CAD signature will be weaker.

WX/PT

From what I've read, in these setups, normally the cold is tougher to scour out, and hangs on longer in some cases.

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From what I've read, in these setups, normally the cold is tougher to scour out, and hangs on longer in some cases.

More often than not 2 things happen in most of these setups, the precip starts quite a bit earlier than models show sometimes even what they are showing in the short range and the cold air holds on longer inland, at the coast I find the mid levels often warm faster but the surface only slightly slower

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Like I keep reading, the models are going to have a tough time displaying how long the CAD will stick around. Will flip and flop several more times before Sunday. I'm about 15 minutes from ABE myself so I'm hoping for the same stuff you are. Also what happened to that 3rd wave people were talking about on the 12z gfs? 

There is no wave after the event being discussed on the run tonight....

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It depends on what's going on around it. It can also depend on the ocean temperature which is a major forecast headache early in the winter...like now.

WX/PT

water temps are overrated in the winter...sure if we get an east or SE wind the coast quickly changes over but thats all winter.
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water temps are overrated in the winter...sure if we get an east or SE wind the coast quickly changes over but thats all winter.

Wrong, not early in December they're not. I've seen it & been there too many times. All it takes is a moderately strong wind east of 050 and bang, warmer air is drawn in off of the ocean and the changeover is underway at the coast and in the city.

WX/PT

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Wrong, not early in December they're not. I've seen it & been there too many times. All it takes is a moderately strong wind east of 050 and bang, warmer air is drawn in off of the ocean and the changeover is underway at the coast and in the city.

WX/PT

I have lived here my whole life and an east wind is the kiss of death all winter. Even an ENE wind doesn't always keep the cold air in place in the dead of winter. It's def debatable and I am not saying u r wrong. After all u are a met.

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I have lived here my whole life and an east wind is the kiss of death all winter. Even an ENE wind doesn't always keep the cold air in place in the dead of winter. It's def debatable and I am not saying u r wrong. After all u are a met.

Yeah that's what I thought, wouldn't an east wind be bad regardless of the date, what's the difference between 50 degree water vs 40 degree water? You're still going to see a changeover if it's an east wind off the water.

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Be careful dismissing this potential icing event in Central PA , NEPA and the lower Hudson valley . The forecasted low in these areas are in the low to mid 20`s Mon AM

And the Euro wants to warm the surface  to 40 F 12 hours later ? . For 1. the Euro is not the model to gauge surface temps 120 hrs out and  2 .Most models don't handle low level cold air and its density very well

and sometimes it displaces it too quickly . Im not saying its wrong , but this is not Pacific air , it tends to get trapped at the surface with these types of events , especially away from the coast .

For the coast I thnk theres  frozen precip to start ,but an E wind on the coast goes over , The Monday morning commute doesn't look cute .

That said the Euro is still  bullish on the cold next THRS and FRI  AM , which is doing that without snow cover in mid DEC and that's impressive .  

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Yeah that's what I thought, wouldn't an east wind be bad regardless of the date, what's the difference between 50 degree water vs 40 degree water? You're still going to see a changeover if it's an east wind off the water.

 

 

I agree, i have lived here my whole life. If you get an East or ENE wind its over and pretty quickly. Doesn't matter if its the dead of winter and really cold to start

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I agree, i have lived here my whole life. If you get an East or ENE wind its over and pretty quickly. Doesn't matter if its the dead of winter and really cold to start

This is why I laugh when people say that lower SST help keep the coast snow. Short of the ocean being frozen over it's not going to make any difference.  

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in 1993 there were a few storms with an east wind that gave NYC significant snow before it changed to rain...One was in late February with 4" of snow before it ended as drizzle...The super storm on 3/13...I think there was one in February 2005 that stayed all snow... 

What was the morning low March 1993  strom ?  Did we start out in the teens ?

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If you get an ESE wind it's game, set, match every day of the year for the south shore.

There have been times when it hasn't. February 2005 had at least one system where it stayed all snow on the shore even on an east wind. You need a deep enough cold air mass, and an ocean temp preferably in the low 40s or below. In early December, the water temps are still quite warm, so that's extremely difficult, more so than later into Jan, Feb, or even March.

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in 1993 there were a few storms with an east wind that gave NYC significant snow before it changed to rain...One was in late February with 4" of snow before it ended as drizzle...The super storm on 3/13...I think there was one in February 2005 that stayed all snow...

That was in February and March and/or with a lighter less influential east wind. So, there are TWO differences from what we have at hand, time of year, and lightness of wind.

WX/PT

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That was in February and March and/or with a lighter less influential east wind. So, there are TWO differences from what we have at hand, time of year, and lightness of wind.

WX/PT

True, we we're just saying that water temperature makes a big difference in east wind events, when you have a miller B with a primary cutting through WV and SW PA, you want the water temperature to be 40 rather than 50.
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