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Dec 8th - 9th (2nd wave/winter storm discussion)


Zelocita Weather

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There could be quite a bit of freezing rain and sleet around my old stomping grounds (State College). Man, do I not miss all of those ice storms that area has so often.

You would think that some of the western burbs would see more icing events than we actually do. The last time we really had anything significant was 2011.

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The first wave of precip on the 18z GFS gets eaten alive. The 12z GGEM had a similar setup.

The stronger CAD causes drier air, which eats up the precip. That's why a stronger high and CAD aren't always a good thing. Eventually the stronger high will move east, at which point we all are dealing with roaring SE winds and temps well into the 30s to 40 near the coast and in the city. It's why I have nearly zero hope for anything beyond a light period of snow amounting to maybe a coating near the city. And what does fall there will long be washed away at the end.

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i could be wrong about this, but i think the euro ensemble mean verifies superior to the OP

In the long range, absolutey. Short range, not so much. You look at the ensembles for trends. Inside 96 hours most of the models are going to be in fairly good agreement and the ensembles have less value,
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Yes, .25+ area wide. 

Surface still a little warm out here @ 120, but it would be nice to get some snow out of that wave and then have it on the ground for the next few days.  Would rather have the snow on the backend of this sequence and stick around a little than the front end thump that gets washed away.

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why wouldn't u put stock in our best guidance?

 

It depends if he meant surface or mid-levels, the Euro is awful with surface wamrth beyond 72 hours, its always too warm, even in scenarios where we are easily too cold for anything but snow, but if he meant mid-levels then yeah I'd trust it, especially since if anything the Euro can have a cold bias in the mid-levels on occassion with these systems.

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It depends if he meant surface or mid-levels, the Euro is awful with surface wamrth beyond 72 hours, its always too warm, even in scenarios where we are easily too cold for anything but snow, but if he meant mid-levels then yeah I'd trust it, especially since if anything the Euro can have a cold bias in the mid-levels on occassion with these systems.

Well in this case the Euro mean was warmer than even the GFS
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Surface still a little warm out here @ 120, but it would be nice to get some snow out of that wave and then have it on the ground for the next few days.  Would rather have the snow on the backend of this sequence and stick around a little than the front end thump that gets washed away.

Much agreed. I'll take a little mood snow accumulation with lasting cold over getting several inches and having it wash away the same day.

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In the long range, absolutey. Short range, not so much. You look at the ensembles for trends. Inside 96 hours most of the models are going to be in fairly good agreement and the ensembles have less value,

Def true...but ill still take the euro ensemble mean over most of our short range models. And the models always aren't in good agreement inside 96 hrs as we see every winter. But yea I usually don't use the euro ensembles for short range but like I said, still more accurate than the short high and hi res models. Obv once its inside 48 hrs out its stupid to use the ensemble mean.

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There continues to be some hope on the CIPS analogs, as was discussed 12/28/90 still showing up, its not going to be that good because the wave is much stronger with more WAA...an interesting one showing now is 12/09/86...its actually a very good hit at 500mb, not so much at the surface, the high positioning was not as good as this event and we had more of a SE flow vs. this event where the flow may be more ENE...even in that event LGA had about a 3-4 hour period of snow to start...here is the link...as you can see very similar at 500mb, surface setup not quite as good as high was already more into its departing stage and more NW which enabled the SE flow.

 

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~fxg1/NARR/1986/us1209.php

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