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Dec 8th - 9th (2nd wave/winter storm discussion)


Zelocita Weather

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The number one date on the 96 hours analog map for this storm is 12/27/90. Nyc wasnt expecting alot. NYC ended up with over 5 inches. Interesting.

 

Its actually been the #1 analog at 96 hours now 2 consecutive runs in a row, the 12Z and 00Z runs yesterday, unfortunately none of the other analogs are very useful, all either had a warmer airmass in place before the event with no strong high to the north, 12/14/00 did have a high to the north but the system ejecting from the SW was much stronger than this event so it warmed everything up quickly, I'd be surprised if this event ended up as good as 12/28/90 because this system will be stronger and will push warm air faster.  It usually comes down to 2 factors with these events, can a few mesoscale bands form and can the snow start a few hours earlier than expected...a few years ago I took a look with one other Met at the Feb 2008, Dec 2003, Feb 2000, 2/11/94 events, all of which were these SWFE events slamming into big highs where snow started several hours earlier than anticipated, and in the case of the 2/08 and 12/03 events way before..we found the 700mb RH can often tip you off to what your possible early start time is, if you look at last night's 00Z GFS even though snow does not commence til 20-22Z Sunday the 700mb RH would indicate snow would begin around 16Z Sunday.

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Its actually been the #1 analog at 96 hours now 2 consecutive runs in a row, the 12Z and 00Z runs yesterday, unfortunately none of the other analogs are very useful, all either had a warmer airmass in place before the event with no strong high to the north, 12/14/00 did have a high to the north but the system ejecting from the SW was much stronger than this event so it warmed everything up quickly, I'd be surprised if this event ended up as good as 12/28/90 because this system will be stronger and will push warm air faster.  It usually comes down to 2 factors with these events, can a few mesoscale bands form and can the snow start a few hours earlier than expected...a few years ago I took a look with one other Met at the Feb 2008, Dec 2003, Feb 2000, 2/11/94 events, all of which were these SWFE events slamming into big highs where snow started several hours earlier than anticipated, and in the case of the 2/08 and 12/03 events way before..we found the 700mb RH can often tip you off to what your possible early start time is, if you look at last night's 00Z GFS even though snow does not commence til 20-22Z Sunday the 700mb RH would indicate snow would begin around 16Z Sunday.

THIS is why this site is so awesome.  Great stuff.

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Its actually been the #1 analog at 96 hours now 2 consecutive runs in a row, the 12Z and 00Z runs yesterday, unfortunately none of the other analogs are very useful, all either had a warmer airmass in place before the event with no strong high to the north, 12/14/00 did have a high to the north but the system ejecting from the SW was much stronger than this event so it warmed everything up quickly, I'd be surprised if this event ended up as good as 12/28/90 because this system will be stronger and will push warm air faster. It usually comes down to 2 factors with these events, can a few mesoscale bands form and can the snow start a few hours earlier than expected...a few years ago I took a look with one other Met at the Feb 2008, Dec 2003, Feb 2000, 2/11/94 events, all of which were these SWFE events slamming into big highs where snow started several hours earlier than anticipated, and in the case of the 2/08 and 12/03 events way before..we found the 700mb RH can often tip you off to what your possible early start time is, if you look at last night's 00Z GFS even though snow does not commence til 20-22Z Sunday the 700mb RH would indicate snow would begin around 16Z Sunday.

Interesting. . Good explanation.

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Its actually been the #1 analog at 96 hours now 2 consecutive runs in a row, the 12Z and 00Z runs yesterday, unfortunately none of the other analogs are very useful, all either had a warmer airmass in place before the event with no strong high to the north, 12/14/00 did have a high to the north but the system ejecting from the SW was much stronger than this event so it warmed everything up quickly, I'd be surprised if this event ended up as good as 12/28/90 because this system will be stronger and will push warm air faster.  It usually comes down to 2 factors with these events, can a few mesoscale bands form and can the snow start a few hours earlier than expected...a few years ago I took a look with one other Met at the Feb 2008, Dec 2003, Feb 2000, 2/11/94 events, all of which were these SWFE events slamming into big highs where snow started several hours earlier than anticipated, and in the case of the 2/08 and 12/03 events way before..we found the 700mb RH can often tip you off to what your possible early start time is, if you look at last night's 00Z GFS even though snow does not commence til 20-22Z Sunday the 700mb RH would indicate snow would begin around 16Z Sunday.

I know it's the NAM at 84 hours, but at 12z today you can already see how anyone near the shore is doomed with the second event on the weekend, due to the ESE winds pushing ground temps to above freezing even with 850mb temps a lot cooler, before precip even arrives (and a good amount of the initial precip may be eaten up due to mid level dry air). It might be better around I-287 and on west, but the air directly off the water looks like it will kill any chances around here or the city for much more than some slop that gets quickly washed away.

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you can already see the major changes the models have undergone over the last 36 hours showing the high further south (basically overhead) and with much better CAD. By hr 72 on the GFS this is very clear.The end result may not change, however, as this allows much drier air to be overhead, and given the dry wedge we have we may be fighting to get precip in here while temps support snow, then easily change to rain as warm air surges. Either way Id much rather have a chance of accumulating snow, then not, so I guess we'll see.

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I know it's the NAM at 84 hours, but at 12z today you can already see how anyone near the shore is doomed with the second event on the weekend, due to the ESE winds pushing ground temps to above freezing even with 850mb temps a lot cooler, before precip even arrives (and a good amount of the initial precip may be eaten up due to mid level dry air). It might be better around I-287 and on west, but the air directly off the water looks like it will kill any chances around here or the city for much more than some slop that gets quickly washed away.

I would be shocked if the coast gets much more than a coating before it goes to rain.

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I know it's the NAM at 84 hours, but at 12z today you can already see how anyone near the shore is doomed with the second event on the weekend, due to the ESE winds pushing ground temps to above freezing even with 850mb temps a lot cooler, before precip even arrives (and a good amount of the initial precip may be eaten up due to mid level dry air). It might be better around I-287 and on west, but the air directly off the water looks like it will kill any chances around here or the city for much more than some slop that gets quickly washed away.

This will be my first "storm" living in White Plains, will be interesting to see the diference between here and back home in southern queens.

 

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any analog storm for this event should be from early December when water temperatures are similar...I guess the Dec. 1990 analog had similar water temps even though it was three weeks later...I've seen many a snow forecast this time of year not pan out...One of those years was in December 1975 when snow was in the forecast but mostly rain fell on se winds...

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any analog storm for this event should be from early December when water temperatures are similar...I guess the Dec. 1990 analog had similar water temps even though it was three weeks later...I've seen many a snow forecast this time of year not pan out...One of those years was in December 1975 when snow was in the forecast but mostly rain fell on se winds...

Dec '89 was a disaster in terms of snow despite all the cold. A forecast for 4-8" of snow on 12/15 turned into a 40 degree rainstorm

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