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November 16th-18th Storm General Discussion/Obs


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Completely agree. Also as an aside, even if the severe threat is completely east of your area, you'll have the probably at least advisory criteria winds behind the front to look forward to. 18z NAM had 10 mb/3hr pressure rises late afternoon/early evening and 925 mb winds up to 50 kt or so.

 

Yeah it's starting to look real good for some strong gradient winds later Sunday, and Sunday night for this area, and also out east for you guys.  The storm bombing a good 4-8hrs earlier than last night's guidance definitely helps as well.  Don't think we'll quite reach warning criteria, but mid to high-end advisory winds look feasible.  If the low slows down a few hours more and bombs even earlier, then warning criteria may be achievable, especially Sunday night out east towards you guys.

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You should post this in the severe thread. I'm assuming part of the LOT CWA (I work there) is going to be in the MDT for Day 2, with most if not all of the rest of the CWA in the Slight. Havent looked closely enough at tomorrow night, but it seems that trends support your thoughts.

 

will do. but any thoughts on changes, or you think i'm in the ball park there?

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Completely agree. Also as an aside, even if the severe threat is completely east of your area, you'll have the probably at least advisory criteria winds behind the front to look forward to. 18z NAM had 10 mb/3hr pressure rises late afternoon/early evening and 925 mb winds up to 50 kt or so.

 

Yeah it's starting to look real good for some strong gradient winds later Sunday, and Sunday night for this area, and also out east for you guys.  The storm bombing a good 4-8hrs earlier than last night's guidance definitely helps as well.  Don't think we'll quite reach warning criteria, but mid to high-end advisory winds look feasible.  If the low slows down a few hours more and bombs even earlier, then warning criteria may be achievable, especially Sunday night out east towards you guys.

Yup, on board with those thoughts. Even out this way mean mixed layer gusts on BUFKIT were higher end advisory but top of the channel was into warning criteria. If it's gonna happen, it'll be with such an incredibly strong isallobaric component.

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You should post this in the severe thread. I'm assuming part of the LOT CWA (I work there) is going to be in the MDT for Day 2, with most if not all of the rest of the CWA in the Slight. Havent looked closely enough at tomorrow night, but it seems that trends support your thoughts.

 

will do. but any thoughts on changes, or you think i'm in the ball park there?

I think given trends tonight, the MDT might be I57 and east or maybe even I55, slight risk area sounds decent. Might be tough to get it up into GRB bc of the low track, but tonight's guidance shows favorable moisture getting up to southern WI (low 60s dews to MKE).

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I would be very surprised if they didn't upgrade to moderate for day 2.  At the least we're looking at widespread severe for wind, which definitely supports a mod.  I expect a "beefily" worded moderate/hatched day2 in the next few hours. 

 

I agree completely

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I wouldn't be that surprised to see a high risk when we get to Sunday.

 

I tend to stay a little conservative when predicting SPC outlooks, but the overall synoptic setup for this event screams high risk.  Conditional factors may inhibit the eventual risk, and outcome, but synoptically this setup is top notch.  Instability forecasts are pretty good considering the time of year.  If I were a gambling man, I'd say this goes high risk by the 1630z update Sunday morning. 

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I agree 100%, but to be fair we are in the minority. I'd be excited in spring or summer, but in November I couldn't care less. I'm like those folks who don't get excited for a snowstorm in spring.

 

Hopefully any damage that happens avoids my backyard and everyone else here but yeah this fascinates me more so because of the time of year. Ofcourse i have always been big with extreme wx.. For this time of year this is as extreme as it gets if everything pans out as the models suggest. So yeah i am down with it.

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not sure we see a high risk. but a moderate risk with maybe some PDS severe thunderstorm watches due to widespread high wind gusts, I could see that.

 

The only way that would happen is if there was basically very low tornado potential (which there isn't), otherwise it will be a tornado watch with high wind probs.

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I agree 100%, but to be fair we are in the minority. I'd be excited in spring or summer, but in November I couldn't care less. I'm like those folks who don't get excited for a snowstorm in spring.

 

I am thinking along those same lines, but seeing something out of season is interesting. To experience an early May snowstorm would be fascinating for example.

 

I'm surprised to hear that the severe weather potential could reach GRB. Seems a bit too far north...

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so how far do you take the risk for gusts into Ontario, and from what's being shown there harrisale, maybe southern/western Quebec?

 

I'd have to think the convective damaging wind threat extends out to to at least Kingston, ON, probably to the QC border before the system loses potency. Areas along the northern shore of Lake Ontario including Toronto and east will be looking at gusts in the vicinity of 100 km/h coming off the lake, maybe even a touch higher; 925mb winds could be in the 60kt range along the shore.

 

Tor threat minimal but certainly possible in the extreme SW of the province. More likely a spin up within the line.

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I'd have to think the convective damaging wind threat extends out to to at least Kingston, ON, probably to the QC border before the system loses potency. Areas along the northern shore of Lake Ontario including Toronto and east will be looking at gusts in the vicinity of 100 km/h coming off the lake, maybe even a touch higher; 925mb winds could be in the 60kt range along the shore.

 

Tor threat minimal but certainly possible in the extreme SW of the province. More likely a spin up within the line.

i was thinking mainly straight-line gusts marching across by that time. and i was also thinking at least Kingston, but maybe as far as the Ottawa River from YWA to the St Lawrence River. I would hope they would be weak enough before they make it to Montreal. But i'm not sure how EC-Montreal would further the warnings. 

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Excerpt from the DTX AFD just issued regarding the system:

 

THE DAY2 SPC CONVECTIVE OUTLOOK HAS UPGRADED THE SRN TWO THIRDS OF
THE FORECAST AREA TO A MODERATE RISK FOR SEVERE WEATHER...VERY RARE
FOR SE MI IN NOVEMBER. THE CHARACTER OF SEVERE WEATHER OVER SE MI ON
SUNDAY WILL DEPEND ON THE EFFICIENCY OF THE ADVECTION OF INSTABILITY
NORTHWARD WITHIN THE WARM SECTOR OF THE APPROACHING SFC LOW. MODEL
SOUNDINGS ALL SUGGEST WIDESPREAD STRATUS /POSSIBLY SOME DRIZZLE/
SUNDAY MORNING. THE NAM SOLUTION IS THE MOST EFFICIENT IN ADVECTING
SFC BASED INSTABILITY INTO SE MI SUN AFTERNOON. NAM MODEL SOUNDINGS
IN THE 21Z TO 00Z TIME FRAME SUGGEST 0-1KM ML CAPE APPROACHING 1K
J/KG. WITH 50-60KTS DEEP LAYER SHEER AND HIGH LOW LEVEL HELICITY A
SEVERE SQUALL LINE WITH EMBEDDED SUPERCELLS IS PLAUSIBLE AND LIKELY
THE KEY PLAYER IN THE UPGRADE TO A MODERATE RISK. ALTHOUGH THE GFS
AND ECMWF HAVE LESS INSTABILITY...THE INTENSITY OF THE LARGE SCALE
DYNAMICS AND STRONG WIND FIELD JUST OFF THE SURFACE WOULD STILL POSE
A FORMIDABLE RISK OF DAMAGING WIND GUSTS OUT OF A CONVECTIVE LINE
SEGMENT IN ADVANCE OF THE COLD FRONT.

ALTHOUGH THE SFC ISALLOBARIC COMPONENT ALONG THE SFC COLD FRONT IS
FORECAST TO BE RATHER WEAK...THE SFC LOW IS EXPECTED TO RAPIDLY
DEEPEN AS IT LIFTS NORTHEAST SUN NIGHT. STRONG LARGE SCALE
SUBSIDENCE AND LOW LEVEL COLD AIR ADVECTION SHOULD PROVE EFFICIENT
IN MIXING STRONGER WINDS ALOFT TO THE SFC. MODEL SOUNDINGS REMAIN
SUPPORTIVE OF WIND GUSTS SUN NIGHT THROUGH MON MORNING SOLIDLY IN
THE ADVISORY CRITERIA /AROUND 45 MPH/. WIND GUSTS SHOULD THEN
DECREASE DURING THE COURSE OF THE AFTERNOON MON AS THE GRADIENT
SLOWLY RELAXES. AFTER POSSIBLY HITTING OR EXCEEDING RECORD HIGHS FOR
SUN /70 DEG AT DTW...FNT AND MBS/
...COLD AIR ADVECTION WILL SEND
TEMPS DOWN TOWARD MORE TYPICAL NOVEMBER READINGS ON MON. THIS
COLDER AIRMASS WILL THEN PERSIST THROUGH THE WORK WEEK.

 

Grids have the Detroit metro area bumped up to the upper 60's to around 70 for sunday. Insane!

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Rare to see such strong words from DTX in a HWO:

 

MIZ047>049-053>055-060>063-068>070-075-076-082-083-170930-MIDLAND-BAY-HURON-SAGINAW-TUSCOLA-SANILAC-SHIAWASSEE-GENESEE-LAPEER-ST. CLAIR-LIVINGSTON-OAKLAND-MACOMB-WASHTENAW-WAYNE-LENAWEE-MONROE-420 AM EST SAT NOV 16 2013THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR PORTIONS OF SOUTHEASTMICHIGAN..DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHTNO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME..DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...SUNDAY THROUGH FRIDAYTHERE IS A CHANCE OF SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS ON SUNDAY AFTERNOON ANDEVENING. DAMAGING WIND GUSTS TO 70 MPH AND A CHANCE OF TORNADOESARE THE MAIN SEVERE WEATHER THREATS. AN INTENSIFYING AREA OF LOWPRESSURE WILL LIFT INTO THE NORTHERN GREAT LAKES BY SUNDAY NIGHT.THIS SYSTEM WILL DRAW AN UNUSUAL AMOUNT OF WARM AND UNSTABLE AIRFOR NOVEMBER INTO SOUTHERN MICHIGAN. THIS COMBINED WITH A STRONGLYSHEARED ENVIRONMENT WILL PROVIDE THE INGREDIENTS FOR A POTENTIALNOVEMBER SEVERE WEATHER OUTBREAK.COLD AIR WILL ADVANCE BACK INTO THE REGION BEHIND A COLD FRONTSUNDAY EVENING. MEANWHILE...THE LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL CONTINUETO STRENGTHEN AS IT LIFTS INTO CANADA. THIS WILL LEAD TO WINDGUSTS AROUND 45 MPH SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY MORNING AND MAYREQUIRE THE ISSUANCE OF A WIND ADVISORY..SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...SPOTTER ACTIVATION WILL NOT BE NEEDED TODAY.$$

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/outlook.php

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The above tornado mention made me think of how rare one might be this time of the year in DTX. Anyone have any ideas of the latest one to be sighted in the DTX area over the years. One thing is for sure to go to such extremes temperature wise is very impressive 20's on Tuesday followed by possible high 60's perhaps 70 on Sunday is crazy.

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The above tornado mention made me think of how rare one might be this time of the year in DTX. Anyone have any ideas of the latest one to be sighted in the DTX area over the years. One thing is for sure to go to such extremes temperature wise is very impressive 20's on Tuesday followed by possible high 60's perhaps 70 on Sunday is crazy.

EC also has special weather statements out for most of Ontario (heavy rain for the north and rain/wind in the south with the risk for severe thunderstorms, especially in the SW [yqg/yzr/yxu]). i just wonder who is on over there at Downsview tomorrow for the potential of severe wx coverage.

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The above tornado mention made me think of how rare one might be this time of the year in DTX. Anyone have any ideas of the latest one to be sighted in the DTX area over the years. One thing is for sure to go to such extremes temperature wise is very impressive 20's on Tuesday followed by possible high 60's perhaps 70 on Sunday is crazy.

November tornadoes are rare here, but there have been at least a few cases. SPC Environmental Browser has the tracks and timing stats:

post-533-0-56127500-1384615800_thumb.jpg

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November tornadoes are rare here, but there have been at least a few cases. SPC Environmental Browser has the tracks and timing stats:

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Is there a way you can post a link to this information?? I'm also interested on the Canadian portion of this map, Essex county to be precise. Our street  is known as Tornado Alley for the older locals, for they seem to be concentrated in our region. Ive see two in the last 4 years...

 

Sorry to waver off the topic a tad...

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gfsUS_250_pvort_024.gif

 

Warm sector precip looks unavoidable to me. That PV anomaly outrunning the main show will almost certainly be able to force showers/storms ahead of it.

 

For what it's worth, this anomaly crosses eastern IA late this evening really, and the SPC WRF run from 00z initiates some big storms there around 04z. Something to keep an eye on.

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Is there a way you can post a link to this information?? I'm also interested on the Canadian portion of this map, Essex county to be precise. Our street is known as Tornado Alley for the older locals, for they seem to be concentrated in our region. Ive see two in the last 4 years...

Sorry to waver off the topic a tad...

It's a great resource, but unfortunately it doesn't cover much of Canada.

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/envbrowser/

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