famartin Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The SCEP may be going away but with the # of Vets coming out of the service given a mass downsizing that occurred in the last year it may as well just cancel it out. And the SCEP was not really the only way to get in, at certain offices such as State College, Albany, Norman, Grand Forks and a few others it was a major obstacle to the non SCEP crew but in smaller locales away from universities it was far from a complete blocking issue. SCEPs generally took advantage of the fact they could get into desireable locations, the worst location I have ever seen a SCEP walk into a slot was Little Rock, AR and believe me, Little Rock is a relatively nice city, but by standards of someone used to a bigger city it may not seem that desireable. If you're looking to apply to Goodland, Elko, San Juan, or Caribo its highly unlikely you ever needed to concern yourself with SCEP applicants. We had a SCEP who was hired as an intern here in Elko from 2009-2010. He went on to be a forecaster at HPC very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 You should never give up on your goals without trying and I don't think anyone here did that. You should be willing to move just about anywhere CONUS to secure your first job tho. You should also realize you wont make much money during your first few years. In the meantime, your job is to make yourself as competitive as possible...ie: high grades, research papers, internships, volunteering, etc. Certainly agree with many points here...obviously not from personal experience but just from the experience of listening to other people. 1. You definitely have to be willing to move...anywhere, not just in meteorology but in any major. Sure for many it would probably be great to get a job close to home where you spent the majority of your life but not everyone is lucky like that. You have to be willing to go anywhere at anytime. 2. You certainly can't think big money right away...some people get lucky like this but for the most part you have to work your way up...especially in meteorology. I have a few friends who are quite lucky...although I shouldn't say lucky, they busted their butts off and have excellent degrees. One of my best friends from middle school who went to Johnson & Whales in RI is a chief...he went to cooking school. He just got a job outside of Boston with a starting salary of 50K! Another friend who I work with at the skating rink is getting a degree in Business/Accounting, she is graduating next month and will be starting this job next month with a 50K annual salary...not including bonuses. Something else I would like to add is you have to keep ALL of your options open. You have to be willing to do almost anything you can within your degree, especially when looking for your first job. The more options you have available to you the better odds you will have. For example, when I finally get back to college and graduate my life goal is not to be a TV met...nothing against TV mets at all it's just I would rather do research or NWS or SPC, however, does this mean I will not go after any TV jobs...absolutely not. My options will also include teaching, middle school...high school...anything. Whatever options are available I'll keep them all open. I've always thought this, however, after an experience I had at work today this really popped in my mind and really stuck more. There was this new kid that came in today and was being trained, he is 21 or 22 I believe and he just graduated from the University of Hartford last December with a degree in English. He just got a job at the skating rink, he'll be a cashier making probably $8.35/HR working no more than probably 10-15 hours a week. It's sad. Someone asked him today what he planned on doing with the degree and he said he wasn't sure, that person asked him if he thought about going into teaching and he said no...that really struck me. That right there heavily decreases his options available to him. In this day and age you just can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Whose decision was this? I want to know who to be pissed off at. The MIC of LOT explained the hiring system, from the application to the points to the "gold group" to the interview and whatnot and it sounds nearly impossible to get in unless it's through SCEP. So it really sucks that SCEP is going away. It actually came from President Obama, it was not an NWS decision. Obama completely overhauled the hiring system across the government. The NWS actually lobbied to keep it since it has been determined by the NWS that SCEP is a very beneficial program for the NWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 It actually came from President Obama, it was not an NWS decision. Obama completely overhauled the hiring system across the government. The NWS actually lobbied to keep it since it has been determined by the NWS that SCEP is a very beneficial program for the NWS. Here's the executive order: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/12/27/executive-order-recruiting-and-hiring-students-and-recent-graduates No matter what the wording was, the real reason this came about was that certain groups, including veterans, charged that agencies were using SCEP and the other programs to circumvent the traditional hiring rules (they weren't wrong). (My wife is in federal HR) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Whose decision was this? I want to know who to be pissed off at. The MIC of LOT explained the hiring system, from the application to the points to the "gold group" to the interview and whatnot and it sounds nearly impossible to get in unless it's through SCEP. So it really sucks that SCEP is going away. Yeah like others have said here...it was out of the NWS's hands. You should still apply for volunteerships at your nearest WFO tho. The NWS can afford to be very picky in hiring new interns these days and folks at the top of the list generally have their masters or a good amount of experience. Also, qualified veterans are getting more weight in the hiring process now with SCEP out of the way...so anything you can do to add to your resume which makes you stand out is highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortmax112 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 One thing about the NWS, I think a lot of mets are drawn to it in part because the pay and benefits are currently a lot better than most private sector met jobs. I think in the future though that this difference may be less as there is talk of scaling back benefits and pay of federal workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxdudemike Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 In terms of the private sector more, do you guys think it benefits a lot to have a masters? Or could that make you over-qualified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visiteur Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 In terms of the private sector more, do you guys think it benefits a lot to have a masters? Or could that make you over-qualified? So, long-time lurker here. Doesn't say this on the profile, but I'm a meteorologist. I think these days it's strongly preferable to have an advanced degree for most parts of the field. If you're doing broadcasting, there seems to be a bias against advanced degrees (they're looking for a communicator, so an advanced science degree is an overqualifier for most stations). But generally, a master's degree makes you a stronger prospect for job openings, and will allow you to advance further. It's a double-edged sword with PhDs, however. The education is a plus. But, many private companies recognize that PhDs expect to be paid that much more, and that doesn't fit with a lot of bottom lines. If you're doing a PhD, it might make it harder to find an opening, as you're overqualified for the entry-levels. I opted to stop at master's level and followed some of the other recent masters' grads from my program into the energy industry. Most of my colleagues who did PhDs are in some combo of research/academia, and the ones who stuck with the bachelor's either did broadcasting or left the field. That's been my experience anyway. P.S. On another note, for NWS, I believe 15% of their hires had advanced degrees in 1985. today, the number is more like 85%. Unless you're a SCEP or something, you'll likely need a master's to get a job offer from the NWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortmax112 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I just got hired by the NWS this year after applying for about 15-20 openings over the course of 6 months. I had 7 1/2 years of private sector experience and just a B.S. degree. I think if you have a strong operational background in the private sector where you can get the kind of experience that will help you score high on the application that that may be more valuable than a masters degree. So, long-time lurker here. Doesn't say this on the profile, but I'm a meteorologist. I think these days it's strongly preferable to have an advanced degree for most parts of the field. If you're doing broadcasting, there seems to be a bias against advanced degrees (they're looking for a communicator, so an advanced science degree is an overqualifier for most stations). But generally, a master's degree makes you a stronger prospect for job openings, and will allow you to advance further. It's a double-edged sword with PhDs, however. The education is a plus. But, many private companies recognize that PhDs expect to be paid that much more, and that doesn't fit with a lot of bottom lines. If you're doing a PhD, it might make it harder to find an opening, as you're overqualified for the entry-levels. I opted to stop at master's level and followed some of the other recent masters' grads from my program into the energy industry. Most of my colleagues who did PhDs are in some combo of research/academia, and the ones who stuck with the bachelor's either did broadcasting or left the field. That's been my experience anyway. P.S. On another note, for NWS, I believe 15% of their hires had advanced degrees in 1985. today, the number is more like 85%. Unless you're a SCEP or something, you'll likely need a master's to get a job offer from the NWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Here's the executive order: http://www.whitehous...ecent-graduates No matter what the wording was, the real reason this came about was that certain groups, including veterans, charged that agencies were using SCEP and the other programs to circumvent the traditional hiring rules (they weren't wrong). (My wife is in federal HR) Yes, that was the reason that they changed the program but, I would say that the new program is even better for student interns. I'm currently in the SCEP program but will be converted to this new internship program sometime in 2012. http://www.gpo.gov/f.../2011-19623.pdf From the link above... "The Internship Program is for current students. It will consolidate provisions of the Student Educational Employment Program (SEEP) into a new student internship program designed to provide high school, vocational and technical, undergraduate, and graduate students opportunities to be exposed to the work of Government through Federal internships. This program is designed to attract the interest of students enrolled in a wide variety of educational institutions, with paid opportunities to work in agencies and explore Federal careers while still in school. Agencies may convert Interns who successfully complete program and academic requirements to any competitive service position for which the Intern is qualified, but they are not required to do so. It is expected that, even if an agency does not convert an Intern, service in the Internship Program will increase the likelihood that the Intern will consider applying for a Federal position at some point in the future, based upon the exposure to employment in the Pathways Program." To complete this program the interns must work 320(8 weeks) hours if the job is related to your career field or 640(16 weeks) hours if it is not related. They will also have to obtain a degree. After that it will be up to the employer whether or not to non-competitively convert them to a position. Before STEP interns were not allowed to be transferred into civil service but now with this program any intern can get a job in the civil service. The other difference is veterans will get there preference points for applying to student positions as long as they are students. Another difference is in the recent graduate program(Use to be FCIP). Regular students can get jobs under the recent graduate program no later then 2 years after completing college. While the Veterans will have up to 6 years after college to get into the recent graduate program. So, for anyone that doesn't think that this program is better then the SCEP/STEP/FCIP I would have to majorly disagree. It also gives student veterans a bigger advantage over regular student interns. While still giving regular students a chance to get in the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yes, that was the reason that they changed the program but, I would say that the new program is even better for student interns. I'm currently in the SCEP program but will be converted to this new internship program sometime in 2012. http://www.gpo.gov/f.../2011-19623.pdf From the link above... "The Internship Program is for current students. It will consolidate provisions of the Student Educational Employment Program (SEEP) into a new student internship program designed to provide high school, vocational and technical, undergraduate, and graduate students opportunities to be exposed to the work of Government through Federal internships. This program is designed to attract the interest of students enrolled in a wide variety of educational institutions, with paid opportunities to work in agencies and explore Federal careers while still in school. Agencies may convert Interns who successfully complete program and academic requirements to any competitive service position for which the Intern is qualified, but they are not required to do so. It is expected that, even if an agency does not convert an Intern, service in the Internship Program will increase the likelihood that the Intern will consider applying for a Federal position at some point in the future, based upon the exposure to employment in the Pathways Program." To complete this program the interns must work 320(8 weeks) hours if the job is related to your career field or 640(16 weeks) hours if it is not related. They will also have to obtain a degree. After that it will be up to the employer whether or not to non-competitively convert them to a position. Before STEP interns were not allowed to be transferred into civil service but now with this program any intern can get a job in the civil service. The other difference is veterans will get there preference points for applying to student positions as long as they are students. Another difference is in the recent graduate program(Use to be FCIP). Regular students can get jobs under the recent graduate program no later then 2 years after completing college. While the Veterans will have up to 6 years after college to get into the recent graduate program. So, for anyone that doesn't think that this program is better then the SCEP/STEP/FCIP I would have to majorly disagree. It also gives student veterans a bigger advantage over regular student interns. While still giving regular students a chance to get in the government. Good for you, do you still live in Calvert County? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Good for you, do you still live in Calvert County? Yeah, still live in Calvert County. Currently going to College of Southern Maryland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yeah like others have said here...it was out of the NWS's hands. You should still apply for volunteerships at your nearest WFO tho. The NWS can afford to be very picky in hiring new interns these days and folks at the top of the list generally have their masters or a good amount of experience. Also, qualified veterans are getting more weight in the hiring process now with SCEP out of the way...so anything you can do to add to your resume which makes you stand out is highly recommended. just to let you know...qualified vets don't just get the 5 pts. anymore. If there is a few that are qualified at a specific grade...they actually block the non-vets from being considered at that grade. It's not a big deal...but I've been qualified at the gold category for a number of applications but still did not get referred to the local office because a couple vets or more qualified at all three internship grades and blocked the rest of the golds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortmax112 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Not a big deal? I beg to differ..This makes it extremely difficult for a non-vet to get in. Most openings have several hundred applicants these days so more often than not out of that number you often do have at least 3 vets, especially for any place that's halfway decent. Now I did eventually get in but on 3/4 of my applications I was blocked and not reffered do to this despite being in the gold catagory. just to let you know...qualified vets don't just get the 5 pts. anymore. If there is a few that are qualified at a specific grade...they actually block the non-vets from being considered at that grade. It's not a big deal...but I've been qualified at the gold category for a number of applications but still did not get referred to the local office because a couple vets or more qualified at all three internship grades and blocked the rest of the golds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Not a big deal? I beg to differ..This makes it extremely difficult for a non-vet to get in. Most openings have several hundred applicants these days so more often than not out of that number you often do have at least 3 vets, especially for any place that's halfway decent. Now I did eventually get in but on 3/4 of my applications I was blocked and not reffered do to this despite being in the gold catagory. not a big deal in the sense I'm not going to b**ch about those who served in war getting preference. several hundred is a little bit of a stretch..the most i've heard is 430...and those tend to be highly sought after east coast locations. Buffalo had 116 last winter. I actually haven't been blocked from the last several applications I've sent in. The downsizing of the Iraq and Afghanistan operations could be concerning for the non-vets trying to get in over the next couple years, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 One thing about the NWS, I think a lot of mets are drawn to it in part because the pay and benefits are currently a lot better than most private sector met jobs. I think in the future though that this difference may be less as there is talk of scaling back benefits and pay of federal workers. Not even close. Most private sector jobs in meteorology (not energy) pay 1/3rd and sometimes 1/4th the pay. I know because I started in private weather too where you weren't going to make more than 25-30k a year with minimal benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 not a big deal in the sense I'm not going to b**ch about those who served in war getting preference. several hundred is a little bit of a stretch..the most i've heard is 430...and those tend to be highly sought after east coast locations. Buffalo had 116 last winter. I actually haven't been blocked from the last several applications I've sent in. The downsizing of the Iraq and Afghanistan operations could be concerning for the non-vets trying to get in over the next couple years, though. In the end, the hope is the job goes to the most qualified applicant, vet or not. And several hundred isn't a stretch. Most now have 100-200 applicants per intern opening, even smaller offices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 So, long-time lurker here. Doesn't say this on the profile, but I'm a meteorologist. I think these days it's strongly preferable to have an advanced degree for most parts of the field. If you're doing broadcasting, there seems to be a bias against advanced degrees (they're looking for a communicator, so an advanced science degree is an overqualifier for most stations). But generally, a master's degree makes you a stronger prospect for job openings, and will allow you to advance further. It's a double-edged sword with PhDs, however. The education is a plus. But, many private companies recognize that PhDs expect to be paid that much more, and that doesn't fit with a lot of bottom lines. If you're doing a PhD, it might make it harder to find an opening, as you're overqualified for the entry-levels. I opted to stop at master's level and followed some of the other recent masters' grads from my program into the energy industry. Most of my colleagues who did PhDs are in some combo of research/academia, and the ones who stuck with the bachelor's either did broadcasting or left the field. That's been my experience anyway. P.S. On another note, for NWS, I believe 15% of their hires had advanced degrees in 1985. today, the number is more like 85%. Unless you're a SCEP or something, you'll likely need a master's to get a job offer from the NWS. Depends on the office. 3 folks from this board alone in the last 9 months all managed to be hired by the NWS without M.S. degrees, including me. In this insane market, there really is no such thing as a "perfect candidate", and there is no foolproof or simple way to get in these days whether it be the NWS or private meteorology. It sounds cliche, but the best thing to do is diversify and get a lot of various experiences on your resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 In terms of the private sector more, do you guys think it benefits a lot to have a masters? Or could that make you over-qualified? See the post above. In private met, I hate to say it, but experience is the most desired. What is pretty pathetic these days, however, is all met companies want experienced forecasters. That said, there are still companies that will hire non experienced mets because they can pay them less, and there simply isn't a huge pool of experienced mets applying for entry level jobs. Try road weather companies like Meridian (where I started) or NW Weathernet. There are many others as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#NoPoles Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 well, i have been keeping an eye on this topic...truthfully, this thread brings up one of my biggest concerns since i'm thinking about putting in the effort and money to finish up my met degree...is it worth it? what happens if i take out more loans (i already have a BS ) and put in the time to go back to school, but then can't find crap for work? or not end up doing anything with my degree? (that would make two degrees i'm not doing anything with) i wrestle with that reality, a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 well, i have been keeping an eye on this topic...truthfully, this thread brings up one of my biggest concerns since i'm thinking about putting in the effort and money to finish up my met degree...is it worth it? what happens if i take out more loans (i already have a BS ) and put in the time to go back to school, but then can't find crap for work? or not end up doing anything with my degree? (that would make two degrees i'm not doing anything with) i wrestle with that reality, a lot... In most M.S. programs, you're given a tuition waiver and a stipend, so it shouldn't further your student debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#NoPoles Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'm also a bit touchy on the Vet subject...being a Vet, and underemployed...well, I might as well face it...when i was employed, i was underemployed, except my job ended last friday...so now i'm just unemployed... first off, in govt jobs, you don't block people just by being a Vet...you have to have the schooling and the experience for the job you are applying for...Vets just don't get handed jobs...if Nick and I both apply for the same NWS job...and we are the only two applicants...he's going to get the job because he has his degree and he has been working as a Met...my Vet status won't count for crap... so for those of you who had thought otherwise, you are wrong and you need not post anymore on this subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#NoPoles Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 In most M.S. programs, you're given a tuition waiver and a stipend, so it shouldn't further your student debt. this is a possibilty... but, i don't know the first thing about forecasting...getting my masters isn't going to teach me the operational forecasting meat and potatoes you get through undergrad...which is what i'm interested in... i have thought about going into the Air Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 this is a possibilty... but, i don't know the first thing about forecasting...getting my masters isn't going to teach me the operational forecasting meat and potatoes you get through undergrad...which is what i'm interested in... i have thought about going into the Air Force I think you'd be surprised at how little forecasting there is in undergrad. I mean, it is there, but it isn't a primary focus. I gather most forecasting skills are picked up along the way (using the knowledge you gained in school) and on-the-job. I know that even at bigger programs like Penn State, while graduate school is obviously researched-focused, they even have forecasting classes at the graduate level. So don't get too down about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwohweather Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I've thought the same thing about majoring in it. That's why I'm majoring in Journalism and getting a minor in Meteorology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#NoPoles Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 No they aren't handed jobs, but the way it is now in the NWS (unless I am gravely mistaken..and I very well may be) if they have the requirements and schooling they will get the job, it doesn't matter how much experience Nick has. it has been that way for all govt jobs, for a long time...this is nothing new...two applicants, with equal schooling, and equal experience, pitted sided by side...the one who is a Vet will get the job... what i'm trying to dispel is the myth that the govt hands jobs to Vets without taking into consideration whether or not the Vet has the necessary qualifications...that is false besides, any person who signs their life over to the govt for a certain amount of years, should have extra preference when it comes to govt jobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortmax112 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I know that vets are not simply handed jobs. I never said that. They have to have the qualifications as you say. But if you have two applicants who are both basically qualified as say, a gs-9 and the vet, while being basically qualified do to schooling and experience, doesn't have anything else on his resume that really makes him stand out as a top candidate for the meteorology job and the other guy (not vet) does, I don't think it's fair that the MIC has no choice but to hire the Vet even if he wanted to pick other guy. Instead of giving Vets these kind of perks that are unfair to others applying for Govt jobs we should be paying them better and making sure they are well taken care of in terms of health benefits and what not for serving our country. I'm also a bit touchy on the Vet subject...being a Vet, and underemployed...well, I might as well face it...when i was employed, i was underemployed, except my job ended last friday...so now i'm just unemployed... first off, in govt jobs, you don't block people just by being a Vet...you have to have the schooling and the experience for the job you are applying for...Vets just don't get handed jobs...if Nick and I both apply for the same NWS job...and we are the only two applicants...he's going to get the job because he has his degree and he has been working as a Met...my Vet status won't count for crap... so for those of you who had thought otherwise, you are wrong and you need not post anymore on this subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 it has been that way for all govt jobs, for a long time...this is nothing new...two applicants, with equal schooling, and equal experience, pitted sided by side...the one who is a Vet will get the job... what i'm trying to dispel is the myth that the govt hands jobs to Vets without taking into consideration whether or not the Vet has the necessary qualifications...that is false besides, any person who signs their life over to the govt for a certain amount of years, should have extra preference when it comes to govt jobs... Of course, but I didn't see anyone here saying that. If you have an undergrad degree in met with vet experience you should definitely be applying (if you want a red tag let me know...you can read all about it in the meteorologist only threads where we have discussed this for 40+ pages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#NoPoles Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I know that vets are not simply handed jobs. I never said that. They have to have the qualifications as you say. But if you have two applicants who are both basically qualified as say, a gs-9 and the vet, while being basically qualified do to schooling and experience, doesn't have anything else on his resume that really makes him stand out as a top candidate for the meteorology job and the other guy (not vet) does, I don't think it's fair that the MIC has no choice but to hire the Vet even if he wanted to pick other guy. Instead of giving Vets these kind of perks that are unfair to others applying for Govt jobs we should be paying them better and making sure they are well taken care of in terms of health benefits and what not for serving our country. i'm just amazed that there are people out there who feel this way... first off, not in my lifetime...or many lifetimes yet to come, will there ever be any services or "perks" that could ever come close to compensating those who have served and sacrificed in the military... 2nd, this benefit is only for govt jobs...and Vets have worked for/served the govt... i'm sorry, but someone who has veterans status sure stands out in my book, over someone who spent their life in academia where their biggest worry was some research paper, or launching a weather balloon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 i'm sorry, but someone who has veterans status sure stands out in my book, over someone who spent their life in academia where their biggest worry was some research paper, or launching a weather balloon I agree with you but there are probably better and more effective ways to state your cause than minimizing others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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