stormitecture Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 On estimation....how much of a met degree can be done online and still come from an accredited school (I don't care about quality...could be from Arizona State for all I care)? Not seriously considering....mostly curious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormguy80 Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 exactly. Also issues like affirmative action rear their ugly head. I've heard females are getting about 50% of jobs when in fact they still only represent at best 30-40% of graduating mets. Logic would dictate they should only be getting 30-40 % or so of jobs . I can think of counterexamples from personal experience. I can think of counterexamples from personal experience. Not saying those aren't good rules of thumb, but you have to remember that like any other situation involving human discretion, the acceptance/hiring/promotion process in this field has its flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGoose69 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 exactly. Also issues like affirmative action rear their ugly head. I've heard females are getting about 50% of jobs when in fact they still only represent at best 30-40% of graduating mets. Logic would dictate they should only be getting 30-40 % or so of jobs . 30-40%??? Try maybe 15-20% sir and that might be a over estimated percentage as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Lightning Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 On estimation....how much of a met degree can be done online and still come from an accredited school (I don't care about quality...could be from Arizona State for all I care)? Not seriously considering....mostly curious about it. Mississippi State can be done all online for a Broadcast Met degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 What % of the NWS workforce is currently classified as a minority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Yes, I've seen this question. In fact every one that I've applied for has had this question but what specifically about the Anchorage opening was going on with this question? Something about someone who had applied for this opening had 18 peer reviewed papers published?! Umm, the Anchorage one was the first I have seen in a very long time asking that question. Almost all intern openings don't ask anything about peer reviewed publications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGoose69 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 What % of the NWS workforce is currently classified as a minority? I'd imagine its not all that high but that may be a product more that over the course of my years in this field I have not come across many minorities for whatever reason...I honestly have only seen one African American meteorologist in 15 years and although I have seen numerous Asian professors in the field I don't believe I have ever come across an operational forecaster of Asian descent even though I do see plenty of Asian students at conferences etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 exactly. Also issues like affirmative action rear their ugly head. I've heard females are getting about 50% of jobs when in fact they still only represent at best 30-40% of graduating mets. Logic would dictate they should only be getting 30-40 % or so of jobs . 30-40%??? Try maybe 15-20% sir and that might be a over estimated percentage as well. This has been discussed in publications before. I think a recent BAMS article may have even had a blurb about this in a study regarding upper air analysis and undergraduates. John Knox's article in AMS regarding meteorology/atmospheric science employment from a few years ago as well? Either way, from experience, I say the 10-15% is about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I'd imagine its not all that high but that may be a product more that over the course of my years in this field I have not come across many minorities for whatever reason...I honestly have only seen one African American meteorologist in 15 years and although I have seen numerous Asian professors in the field I don't believe I have ever come across an operational forecaster of Asian descent even though I do see plenty of Asian students at conferences etc. Very interesting comment. Almost all Asian professors/students I have known/met are of Chinese descent and are obtaining some kind of graduate degree here in the states. Almost all are from China (born), and almost all have research aspirations. At UND, we had/have quite a few Chinese students and they were all very talented researchers with amazing mathematics backgrounds. None of them could forecast worth a lick either, but they had far better research backgrounds as a whole compared to their American counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Very interesting comment. Almost all Asian professors/students I have known/met are of Chinese descent and are obtaining some kind of graduate degree here in the states. Almost all are from China (born), and almost all have research aspirations. At UND, we had/have quite a few Chinese students and they were all very talented researchers with amazing mathematics backgrounds. None of them could forecast worth a lick either, but they had far better research backgrounds as a whole compared to their American counterparts. Whoa...that's an unfair stereotype! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Whoa...that's an unfair stereotype! Yeah I knew this may come up. I am not stereotyping. I am explaining my experiences, and that is how it was. Simple fact was they were amazing research students, and their overall math background was light-years beyond the rest. As for forecasting, the group I knew didn't even try forecasting since it wasn't at the top of their agenda. Could they if they did? I would bet yes, and quite easily. Did I stereotype? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Yeah I knew this may come up. I am not stereotyping. I am explaining my experiences, and that is how it was. Simple fact was they were amazing research students, and their overall math background was light-years beyond the rest. As for forecasting, the group I knew didn't even try. Could they if they did? I would bet yes, and quite easily. I know it's the common thought about Asians that they are book smart to a fault...but our group of Asian grad students taught synoptics and other undergrad met classes. I'd have to say they definitely knew the forecast process inside and out. Very impressive and inspirational actually. I know you're not stereotyping btw. I guess it's all relative to our personal experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I know it's the common thought about Asians that they are book smart to a fault...but our group of Asian grad students taught synoptics and other undergrad met classes. I'd have to say they definitely knew the forecast process inside and out. Very impressive and inspirational actually. I know you're not stereotyping btw. I guess it's all relative to our personal experiences. Agreed. I agree with your assessment that some of the best meteorologists I have met were non-American. Great mets come from everywhere , I guess. Perhaps a discussion for a different thread, but great minds come from all backgrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Agreed. I agree with your assessment that some of the best meteorologists I have met were non-American. Great mets come from everywhere , I guess. Perhaps a discussion for a different thread, but great minds come from all backgrounds. Yep...notice how you don't hear about things like Smith-Jones equations in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Yep...notice how you don't hear about things like Smith-Jones equations in college. Yeah you don't hear too many English names. Normally German or Nordic like...Wein, Ekman, Kirchhoff, Stefan-Boltzman, Planck, Helmholtz, etc. No coincidence really. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormguy80 Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 Then that goes even further to prove my point. Unless they (females) happen to be better qualified grads then they should only be getting 15-20% of jobs, not 40-50%. 30-40%??? Try maybe 15-20% sir and that might be a over estimated percentage as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGoose69 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Whoa...that's an unfair stereotype! I wouldn't even focus on him being stereotypical of the Asian students per say...just that generally the rule is good in math and theory, terrible forecaster....good forecaster, terrible with the math and theory...not always true but true more than 50% of the time...whether its 50.01%, 88.9%, 63.5% etc. I don't know but I'd bet the house its over a 50% correlation for sure.....the smartest people unfortunately often have trouble grasping very basic concepts and social skills...I have such a hard time understanding how someone can be unable at the age of 30 or 40 to hold a 5 minute normal conversation but sadly many PhDs out there in ALL fields, not just meteorology do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris87 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Wow, I was uncomfortable reading the couple of posts before this one, but this takes it to a whole different level... First, most people haven't met too many operational forecasters of Asian descent because you've never left the United States. I imagine you could take a walk through the JMA/CMA and if you're lucky, you'd be able to find countless operational forecasters of Asian descent. Second, "just that generally the rule is good in math and theory, terrible forecaster....good forecaster, terrible with the math and theory", this may be true on some accounts, although it is likely the result that someone has no interest in forecasting, then it is that they are "terrible at it". I hold a BS in meteorology, a MS in atmospheric science and a PhD in atmospheric science. This does not preclude me from being a more able operational forecaster than you, if I ever chose to take a job as an operational forecaster, I am more than confident I could provide a service which met or exceeded the expectations of my employer...whomever it would be. Fortunately, operational forecasters have people that you have so elegantly described as "conceptually and socially inept", because we are the ones who spend the countless hours developing the tools (i.e. numerical weather prediction models, advanced data assimilation systems, designing and developing algorithms for remote sensing platforms) that make your job as an operational forecaster easier. Next time you sit down at your station I promise you 99% of the tools you use to make your forecast were developed by someone with an advanced degree. I wouldn't even focus on him being stereotypical of the Asian students per say...just that generally the rule is good in math and theory, terrible forecaster....good forecaster, terrible with the math and theory...not always true but true more than 50% of the time...whether its 50.01%, 88.9%, 63.5% etc. I don't know but I'd bet the house its over a 50% correlation for sure.....the smartest people unfortunately often have trouble grasping very basic concepts and social skills...I have such a hard time understanding how someone can be unable at the age of 30 or 40 to hold a 5 minute normal conversation but sadly many PhDs out there in ALL fields, not just meteorology do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I wouldn't even focus on him being stereotypical of the Asian students per say...just that generally the rule is good in math and theory, terrible forecaster....good forecaster, terrible with the math and theory...not always true but true more than 50% of the time...whether its 50.01%, 88.9%, 63.5% etc. I don't know but I'd bet the house its over a 50% correlation for sure.....the smartest people unfortunately often have trouble grasping very basic concepts and social skills...I have such a hard time understanding how someone can be unable at the age of 30 or 40 to hold a 5 minute normal conversation but sadly many PhDs out there in ALL fields, not just meteorology do. I've never found this to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I wouldn't even focus on him being stereotypical of the Asian students per say...just that generally the rule is good in math and theory, terrible forecaster....good forecaster, terrible with the math and theory...not always true but true more than 50% of the time...whether its 50.01%, 88.9%, 63.5% etc. I don't know but I'd bet the house its over a 50% correlation for sure.....the smartest people unfortunately often have trouble grasping very basic concepts and social skills...I have such a hard time understanding how someone can be unable at the age of 30 or 40 to hold a 5 minute normal conversation but sadly many PhDs out there in ALL fields, not just meteorology do. ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I can't believe some of the comments in this thread. My personal opinion based on experiences in undergraduate and graduate school is that more graduate schools should offer basic English to foreign students. I can't tell you how many bright minds I have met, however, the language barrier really hinders them in being able to express what they know. I have not found that people who hold PhD's are unable to hold a conversation, actually I find it to be quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Very interesting comment. Almost all Asian professors/students I have known/met are of Chinese descent and are obtaining some kind of graduate degree here in the states. Almost all are from China (born), and almost all have research aspirations. At UND, we had/have quite a few Chinese students and they were all very talented researchers with amazing mathematics backgrounds. None of them could forecast worth a lick either, but they had far better research backgrounds as a whole compared to their American counterparts. Actually, and Scotty can attest to this, the Chinese (hong kong) born professor of meteorology at Kean has admitted many times that he would not have a clue how to forecast, but he is an absolute genius in mathematics and physics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I wouldn't even focus on him being stereotypical of the Asian students per say...just that generally the rule is good in math and theory, terrible forecaster....good forecaster, terrible with the math and theory...not always true but true more than 50% of the time...whether its 50.01%, 88.9%, 63.5% etc. I don't know but I'd bet the house its over a 50% correlation for sure.....the smartest people unfortunately often have trouble grasping very basic concepts and social skills...I have such a hard time understanding how someone can be unable at the age of 30 or 40 to hold a 5 minute normal conversation but sadly many PhDs out there in ALL fields, not just meteorology do. I think that most people who are interested in forecasting are more awake and ready to go in synoptic classes and classes that deal with day-to-day meteorology than those who want to do research. That could be part of the reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Actually, and Scotty can attest to this, the Chinese (hong kong) born professor of meteorology at Kean has admitted many times that he would not have a clue how to forecast, but he is an absolute genius in mathematics and physics! Well...that proves it. Asians cannot forecast weather worth a damn. I think that most people who are interested in forecasting are more awake and ready to go in synoptic classes and classes that deal with day-to-day meteorology than those who want to do research. That could be part of the reasoning. Yeah...going into research requires a sleepy mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k*** Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well...that proves it. Asians cannot forecast weather worth a damn. Yeah...going into research requires a sleepy mind. Did you do well in your reading classes? I didn't say it proves anything. And to the second point, what I'm saying is research majors are going to be more awake in OTHER classes that the operational mets have less interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGorse Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 You certainly add value with many of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thread's gone from bad to terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 You certainly add value with many of your posts. He's right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 You certainly add value with many of your posts. I really don't know how he gets away with it. We see numerous times posts from the moderators on these boards telling everyone that they can only make posts that have any substance to them. Yet, time and time again, he makes posts with the facepalm, or simply "roflcopter" and he gets away with it. If I were 5-posted, I would make every one of my 5 posts a day in protest of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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