Reconsider majoring in meteorology!

[OSUmetstud]

What did he say about this issue? little confused. He was the MIC I actually met with recently. Like I said, he didn't mention anything about it too me.

He didn't mention anything about it specifically...I just told him that the person at region told me I made gold at all three grades but I wasn't referred. And he mentioned the Veteran's Preference issue and told me I'm close and to keep trying.

[BillB]

Well give someone a call...in fact, other NWS mets on this board in that met job thread reiterated the same procedure that I was told about by two people at NWS ER.

Another possible direction is to check with the local congressional representative, and ask them what is going on with the hiring procedure. Have them send a copy in writing.

They should be more responsive and tenacious than a DOC/NOAA/NWS administrative office. A representative who ignores constituant services (such as navigating the federal labyrinth) doesn't remain a representative for long.....

[OSUmetstud]

Another possible direction is to check with the local congressional representative, and ask them what is going on with the hiring procedure. Have them send a copy in writing.

They should be more responsive and tenacious than a DOC/NOAA/NWS administrative office. A representative who ignores constituant services (such as navigating the federal labyrinth) doesn't remain a representative for long.....

I found the Buffalo Intern position contact at Eastern Region extremely helpful, as long as she was telling me the correct information lol. She talked to me for like 10 minutes on the phone about the process and Veteran's Preference.

[stormguy80]

If they care about getting good forecasts they do.

Pearls to the swine. Few viewers need top shelf meteorology skills from their guy or girl on the tube.

[OSUmetstud]

Pearls to the swine. Few viewers need top shelf meteorology skills from their guy or girl on the tube.

From what I've heard, there is a movement in the TV world back towards real mets.

[baroclinic_instability]

If they care about getting good forecasts they do.

Agreed. I think certain regions this is certainly more important, especially in mountainous zones or along the coasts where forecast difficulty increases exponentially.

[Scorpion]

There are only so few NWS jobs available, so I cannot comprehend where the rest of these thousands of meteorology graduates will find work

[SnowGoose69]

I found the Buffalo Intern position contact at Eastern Region extremely helpful, as long as she was telling me the correct information lol. She talked to me for like 10 minutes on the phone about the process and Veteran's Preference.

Some of the HR reps are good, some are okay, some are quite bad...there was even some really odd activity going on last year during the USAjobs reformat period in which you had to re-send all of your documentation since they switched systems...some of the reps were calling applicants after the close dates asking them to send in their documentation while they were not calling others, this is a big no no since nothing can be sent once the announcement closes, if you missed out you missed out...and its in essence a double no no since if you're going to call some you need to call all.

[SnowGoose69]

There are only so few NWS jobs available, so I cannot comprehend where the rest of these thousands of meteorology graduates will find work

They don't, as mentioned in many of the threads many don't ever work in the field or many that initially do eventually move onto something else...the shiftwork bug bites many before the age of 30, particularly women as they don't want to work shifts once they're married and having children...I noticed a marked decline in my ability to tolerate overnight shifts as I got into my late 20s vs. my early 20s...it was an amazing difference in just about a 5-7 year period.

[wall_cloud]

yeah, I had no trouble with mids for the first 7-8 years but the last 1-2 years has been much tougher (I'm 33 now). I definitely hear ya!

[Scorpion]

They don't, as mentioned in many of the threads many don't ever work in the field or many that initially do eventually move onto something else...the shiftwork bug bites many before the age of 30, particularly women as they don't want to work shifts once they're married and having children...I noticed a marked decline in my ability to tolerate overnight shifts as I got into my late 20s vs. my early 20s...it was an amazing difference in just about a 5-7 year period.

That sounds like a terrible idea to get a met degree then... work harder than most other college students and get paid pretty much minimum wage unless you're one of the 1-5% that gets into the NWS

[BillB]

yeah, I had no trouble with mids for the first 7-8 years but the last 1-2 years has been much tougher (I'm 33 now). I definitely hear ya!

Bad News. It will get worse in the next 20!

[wall_cloud]

Bad News. It will get worse in the next 20!

lol...I expect nothing less

[nynjpaweather]

If you come into this field thinking you will automatically make a lot of money without paying your dues, don't bother. I'm in this because I love meteorology, not because I need to drive a fancy car. For the record, I've had the same truck for about 12 years that's been through tornadoes, blizzards, floods, and hurricanes. If you love forecasting and love the science, you better be prepared to make some hard choices.

I for one was not interested in the National Weather Service. Don't get me wrong, they are great and I respect what they do, but I've always had an independent streak and wanted my own company. So I bit the bullet and went out to Oklahoma to learn how the business works. I got paid crap but learned a lot, just like any field. When I knew for certain I was under paid, I left to start my own firm.

If you think that getting a job in this field was going to be easy, let me welcome you to reality. Reality is the economy sucks and finding a job in this field that paid well even in a good economy would mean you'd have to take some not so good jobs and work a lot of off hours. But if you love this field, what does it matter if you work 9 to 5 (which you rarely ever will as a forecaster) or 10 PM to 6 AM. You are forecasting, studying the weather, you are doing what you love. No?

So the real question I have for this guy is are you going to quit just become life isn't easy, but let me tell you something, life isn't easy for any one. You either step up and have the balls to go out on your own or you don't. Basically it comes down to that.

[wall_cloud]

If you come into this field thinking you will automatically make a lot of money without paying your dues, don't bother. I'm in this because I love meteorology, not because I need to drive a fancy car. For the record, I've had the same truck for about 12 years that's been through tornadoes, blizzards, floods, and hurricanes. If you love forecasting and love the science, you better be prepared to make some hard choices.

I for one was not interested in the National Weather Service. Don't get me wrong, they are great and I respect what they do, but I've always had an independent streak and wanted my own company. So I bit the bullet and went out to Oklahoma to learn how the business works. I got paid crap but learned a lot, just like any field. When I knew for certain I was under paid, I left to start my own firm.

If you think that getting a job in this field was going to be easy, let me welcome you to reality. Reality is the economy sucks and finding a job in this field that paid well even in a good economy would mean you'd have to take some not so good jobs and work a lot of off hours. But if you love this field, what does it matter if you work 9 to 5 (which you rarely ever will as a forecaster) or 10 PM to 6 AM. You are forecasting, studying the weather, you are doing what you love. No?

So the real question I have for this guy is are you going to quit just become life isn't easy, but let me tell you something, life isn't easy for any one. You either step up and have the balls to go out on your own or you don't. Basically it comes down to that.

I think we bit that same bullet!

[nynjpaweather]

I think we bit that same bullet!

You know what? No regrets at all. Sure, my brother is far more financially well off, but he hates his job and never seems happy. I on the other hand have a small apartment, but love what I do every day and answers to no one.

The point is that you can make a good living in this field if you work very hard and you love it. My advise to the person who made this post, move out of the field and get out of my way. Period.

[wall_cloud]

likewise, I agree 100%. I meant working at the same place though

[eyewall]

Its likely something is going on differently because numerous people in the met job thread with extensive experience, ie eyewall, osumetstud who had been getting referred almost automatically have not been referred to anything or only once in recent weeks.

This is true although with Anchorage the questions seemed more geared for a professor with the paper crap.

[baroclinic_instability]

This is true although with Anchorage the questions seemed more geared for a professor with the paper crap.

Yeah that one was weird. I wonder how many folks besides post-docs have 18 peer reviewed publications.

[ohleary]

Interesting thread. This thread will probably be responsible for me getting my M.S. in meteorology.

Question for NWS/NOAA employees, what route did you take to get your job? I know it's incredibly difficult to get a government job. But what things can you do increase your odds or to make your resume better?

I work for NOAA/NWS/NCEP, am not a forecaster like most of the folks looking for work on this board seem to want to be. I used to apply to all the intern jobs like everyone else but no dice. I turned down a forecasting job in the private sector right out of school, then got hired as a Support Scientist at the University of Northern Iowa. I am fairly certain that my internship (UCAR/COMET) was 75% responsible for me getting the first job, in addition to my grades, and being active in SCAMS. Alot of what I did at UNI was computer-related, I came out of there being an adept administrator of Windows/UNIX/Linux, shell scripting, GEMPAK, WRF/Workstation Eta modeling, web stuff. I then took a job in NC as an air quality meteorologist after 4 years in Iowa, then saw the announcement at NCEP/NCO. My experience at my job in Iowa pretty much got me my current position, because of my experience with shell scripting, computer administration and experience running numerical weather models. Plus always have stellar references.

For me it was hard work and alot of luck, one thing led to another, and the pieces all fit together. I couldn't get a forecasting job at a WFO now probably, but I think I'm past that now anyway. I don't know exactly what to tell you about getting a job with the NWS now, other get an internship in school and be amazing at it, so that you have sterling references from it. Don't overlook the private sector, right out of school, get experience doing anything at all, anything computer related, GIS, community outreach, etc. And when you are somewhere and have stopped building skills, move on to another position. Don't be afraid to move anywhere. At the beginning of your career you shouldn't stay anywhere long. Build a resume with varied experience, everyone and their brother has a Met degree. Looking back, I'm sure my Met degree didn't get me any jobs, it was all the extra stuff that did and learned along the way that tipped the scales.

[eyewall]

Yeah that one was weird. I wonder how many folks besides post-docs have 18 peer reviewed publications.

Haha yeah especially with an ENTRY LEVEL position. Anyway I currently fall into the ranks of the underemployed in terms of the field. I love the company I work for as a met and wish they could take me on full time. I am treated very well and it is the complete opposite of the "sweatshop" mentality without question. The budget and the work is just not there for it to reach 40 hour weeks though. I have been applying for NWS and private positions for a year and a half or so now without much success (except for being referred the hiring official with one interview and making to a final interview with Accuweather (That last part can be an entirely new thread all on its own). As for the grad school option it appears near impossible to get a spot with funding because of the down economy. Aside from budget cuts within universities there are alot more people going for advanced degrees simply as a safety net in hopes the job market will improve by the time they are done. Sadly Meteorology is a second Bachelors for me as my first one proved useless. I always loved meteorology and always wanted to be a part of the field and I finally did it only to end up getting it done in these horrid times (I am currently just turned 34). Anyway that is my story and I do have internships / volunteer experience under my belt. I am starting a second job that has nothing to do with Met simply to make ends meet. Some of the talk may be hyperbole but regardless it is pretty depressing. When you know this is what you wanted your whole life and you can't quite get there it leaves you feeling rather lost and down.

[Dopplerbob]

From what I've heard, there is a movement in the TV world back towards real mets.

While true Camizz, think of it as the now mandated masters to get into most research positions. Virtually no one in any decent sized market is hiring, mainly because no one is moving. If you want to get into TV, you need a great tape ready to go, along with some nice luggage and a sticker that says "Destination: Sioux Falls, South Dakota"

TV biz is tough. Since I've decided that I'm staying in my hometown of Rochester instead of jet-setting the rest of my career, I had to make a career change. It wasn't an easy choice, but its the choice that fits my goals, aspirations, and future family plans.

[SnowGoose69]

From what I've heard, there is a movement in the TV world back towards real mets.

Change IS to WAS.....it seems the moves in that direction that started maybe 10-15 years ago has slowed quite significantly the last few years or so...I have noticed an increased number of non-mets on TV both TWC, CNN, FOXNEWS, and local stations since maybe 2005-2006....I think the TV personnel more or less realized that in this day of great forecast modeling and strong NWS forecasts overall they can afford to go more with the personality and pretty face.

[winterymix]

..... I ended up with a 2.81 total GPA and something a bit higher for my in-major GPA (can't seem to pull that one up online). I got into grad school not on my grades, but on my networking skills. Some friends set me up with some meetings for grad school advisors at an AMS meeting and I was able to impress one enough in person to accept me into the program. I finished my grad school with a 3.69 GPA.

This is impressive and is a lesson for the young'ns here trying to jump start a career.

The ability to impress the established leadership, not with Bravo Sierra, but with

creative, energetic and productive mental horsepower and a hunger for lifetime learning trumps all.

The World is populated with a great many talented people that have gone nowhere on their

talent.

[eyewall]

I also wanted to add that I think the NWS hiring system is flawed in the sense that I couldn't even get a shot at an interview with the office I did a student internship and research work for. I was not referred when a good amount of my references work there (including the MIC and SOO). In fact the SOO sent me a personal e-mail telling me the opening was coming and again I couldn't even get referred to the hiring official. I would have to say that was beyond frustrating.

[baroclinic_instability]

Haha yeah especially with an ENTRY LEVEL position. Anyway I currently fall into the ranks of the underemployed in terms of the field. I love the company I work for as a met and wish they could take me on full time. I am treated very well and it is the complete opposite of the "sweatshop" mentality without question. The budget and the work is just not there for it to reach 40 hour weeks though. I have been applying for NWS and private positions for a year and a half or so now without much success (except for being referred the hiring official with one interview and making to a final interview with Accuweather (That last part can be an entirely new thread all on its own). As for the grad school option it appears near impossible to get a spot with funding because of the down economy. Aside from budget cuts within universities there are alot more people going for advanced degrees simply as a safety net in hopes the job market will improve by the time they are done. Sadly Meteorology is a second Bachelors for me as my first one proved useless. I always loved meteorology and always wanted to be a part of the field and I finally did it only to end up getting it done in these horrid times (I am currently just turned 34). Anyway that is my story and I do have internships / volunteer experience under my belt. I am starting a second job that has nothing to do with Met simply to make ends meet. Some of the talk may be hyperbole but regardless it is pretty depressing. When you know this is what you wanted your whole life and you can't quite get there it leaves you feeling rather lost and down.

I hear ya bud. Good luck to you, and I wish luck to everyone on here looking to eventually get into the NWS. It is a tough market, but hopefully hard work will get you and us through. I love meteorology too much to do anything else, and I plan to eventually get into NOAA someway/somehow because that is what I always wanted to do. Grad school looks likely.

This is impressive and is a lesson for the young'ns here trying to jump start a career.

The ability to impress the established leadership, not with Bravo Sierra, but with

creative, energetic and productive mental horsepower and a hunger for lifetime learning trumps all.

The World is populated with a great many talented people that have gone nowhere on their

talent.

Grad school is becoming a likely scenario for me. I actually don't mind research, and I think my private weather experiences and my undergrad experiences will suit me well to research. I have a pretty strong programming background with a lot of numerical modeling experience.

[Dopplerbob]

Change IS to WAS.....it seems the moves in that direction that started maybe 10-15 years ago has slowed quite significantly the last few years or so...I have noticed an increased number of non-mets on TV both TWC, CNN, FOXNEWS, and local stations since maybe 2005-2006....I think the TV personnel more or less realized that in this day of great forecast modeling and strong NWS forecasts overall they can afford to go more with the personality and pretty face.

I dunno, most TV jobs listed say "AMS/NWA seal preferred or mandatory" across the board. But the reason for the degree-less hirings: less money. Lesser qualifications=less pay (most of the time!)=stronger company bottom line.

I can say that there is HUGE emphasis on a meteorology degree in this market. You won't even get sniffed at without one. Credibility is very important in Western New York.

[winterymix]

Grad school is becoming a likely scenario for me. I actually don't mind research, and I think my private weather experiences and my undergrad experiences will suit me well to research. I have a pretty strong programming background with a lot of numerical modeling experience.

Your posts during the 12/25-12/27 near miss for some and blizzard for others were appreciated

by many here. You seem to have enthusiasm for skillfully done model briefings, independent

thought and effective communication skills.

Carry on.

[stormguy80]

The people that need to get out are the ones who are like "oh, meteorology sounds cool - i'd love to chase storms some day. After watching twister it looks like it'd be so fun". These are the people who are responsible for the soaring numbers of mets and a good deal of them would have probably choose another career if they new the realities of the field. This was the whole reason for my post.

You know what? No regrets at all. Sure, my brother is far more financially well off, but he hates his job and never seems happy. I on the other hand have a small apartment, but love what I do every day and answers to no one.

The point is that you can make a good living in this field if you work very hard and you love it. My advise to the person who made this post, move out of the field and get out of my way. Period.

[stormguy80]

Yeah. I hear yah. I feel your pain.

I also wanted to add that I think the NWS hiring system is flawed in the sense that I couldn't even get a shot at an interview with the office I did a student internship and research work for. I was not referred when a good amount of my references work there (including the MIC and SOO). In fact the SOO sent me a personal e-mail telling me the opening was coming and again I couldn't even get referred to the hiring official. I would have to say that was beyond frustrating.