Reconsider majoring in meteorology!

[kab2791]

Thanks for your insight. Thinking it over the last 24 hours, I don't want to switch majors. I figure this is where my interest lies the most, and like you and others have pointed out, there are other pathways within in, just don't think narrowly.

This thread is way too pessimistic.. There are a good amount of meteorology jobs right now in the energy and commodities sectors, along with alternative energy and met-tech's as well. Not to mention the broadcast openings. I graduated very recently (mid recession), and I can say that a large portion of my class has excellent jobs. We have 3 Wx Risk grads at energy firms, one at a reinsurance firm, one at a global supply chain company, a few in grad school, and the majority of the rest in private forecasting gigs. I think the job scarcity issue is more at play when it comes to general forecaster positions than anything. NWS is tough to get for seasoned mets, let alone kids out of school. Couple that with people who do nothing to further their education post grad (even COMET modules help) and are unwilling to relocate, and you can see why there is a perception that there are no jobs.

Broaden your horizons within meteorology and there are opportunities available. When you do get an opportunity, you have to seize it and you have to shine. Working hard isn't enough...you need to demonstrate social skills, show initiative, and demonstrate your value.

I can tell you right now that majoring in weather risk was the smartest decision I ever made. Commodities and energy scarcity are huge issues right now, and they will only be further stressed as the population grows further. While many people dream of the NWS, there are amazing opportunities out there if you're willing to just go for it. Commodities and energy are where the jobs are going to be moving forward. I'd argue the name on your degree matters too, but that's more about networking.

[stormguy80]

you say there are "a good amount" of jobs out there. I'm not denying that there are jobs out there, even some good jobs, and that there still will be success stories like the ones are mentioning. You weren't reading very carefully about what it is that I have been saying but I've repeated myself waaaayyyy to many times by this point for me to say it again. I'll just leave it at this though, produces some evidence that shows that the number of jobs is roughly in balance with the number of grads, and not just once graduating class at one school, and then maybe you'll have a case. Even I'll admit this is getting old now.... Yes, I've said things that are pretty discouraging and I stand by them. But that doesn't mean that no one will get a job in meteorology or that it's ALL bad. If you work hard, get the neccssary skills for the job you want etc, and have a real passion for it and are willing to move than yes; go for it. you may have reasonable shot at success depending on your financial needs / desires and willingness to do shift work; I just think there is very little awareness of any of the negatives amoung high school age students interested in meteorology and that if they knew the whole story that those with somewhat less interest or who had unrealistic expectations about getting a forecasting job near their home town or in the NWS might think twice about going into the field - this awareness would bring the number of met majors down and more in line with the number of jobs. How is that a bad thing?

This thread is way too pessimistic.. There are a good amount of meteorology jobs right now in the energy and commodities sectors, along with alternative energy and met-tech's as well. Not to mention the broadcast openings. I graduated very recently (mid recession), and I can say that a large portion of my class has excellent jobs. We have 3 Wx Risk grads at energy firms, one at a reinsurance firm, one at a global supply chain company, a few in grad school, and the majority of the rest in private forecasting gigs. I think the job scarcity issue is more at play when it comes to general forecaster positions than anything. NWS is tough to get for seasoned mets, let alone kids out of school. Couple that with people who do nothing to further their education post grad (even COMET modules help) and are unwilling to relocate, and you can see why there is a perception that there are no jobs.

Broaden your horizons within meteorology and there are opportunities available. When you do get an opportunity, you have to seize it and you have to shine. Working hard isn't enough...you need to demonstrate social skills, show initiative, and demonstrate your value.

I can tell you right now that majoring in weather risk was the smartest decision I ever made. Commodities and energy scarcity are huge issues right now, and they will only be further stressed as the population grows further. While many people dream of the NWS, there are amazing opportunities out there if you're willing to just go for it. Commodities and energy are where the jobs are going to be moving forward. I'd argue the name on your degree matters too, but that's more about networking.

[stormguy80]

By all means, go for it. I would just recommend 1) having a backup plan and 2) deciding on what type job(s) you might want in the field and then getting the necessary preparation for it. Just be realistic. Are you willing to make some sacrifices, especially early in your career? If so, then stay the course.

Thanks for your insight. Thinking it over the last 24 hours, I don't want to switch majors. I figure this is where my interest lies the most, and like you and others have pointed out, there are other pathways within in, just don't think narrowly.

[kab2791]

Everyone needs to pay their dues so to speak. I honestly wouldn't mind relocating for a job, nor so should anybody serious about their field of work.

By all means, go for it. I would just recommend 1) having a backup plan and 2) deciding on what type job(s) you might want in the field and then getting the necessary preparation for it. Just be realistic. Are you willing to make some sacrifices, especially early in your career? If so, then stay the course.

[Stebo]

you say there are "a good amount" of jobs out there. I'm not denying that there are jobs out there, even some good jobs, and that there still will be success stories like the ones are mentioning. You weren't reading very carefully about what it is that I have been saying but I've repeated myself waaaayyyy to many times by this point for me to say it again. I'll just leave it at this though, produces some evidence that shows that the number of jobs is roughly in balance with the number of grads, and not just once graduating class at one school, and then maybe you'll have a case. Even I'll admit this is getting old now.... Yes, I've said things that are pretty discouraging and I stand by them. But that doesn't mean that no one will get a job in meteorology or that it's ALL bad. If you work hard, get the neccssary skills for the job you want etc, and have a real passion for it and are willing to move than yes; go for it. you may have reasonable shot at success depending on your financial needs / desires and willingness to do shift work; I just think there is very little awareness of any of the negatives amoung high school age students interested in meteorology and that if they knew the whole story that those with somewhat less interest or who had unrealistic expectations about getting a forecasting job near their home town or in the NWS might think twice about going into the field - this awareness would bring the number of met majors down and more in line with the number of jobs. How is that a bad thing?

Most majors don't balance out jobs to grads, especially with how the economy is right now... Also like many others have said there are many ways into the field. Personally I am going the observer route right now.

[Stebo]

Everyone needs to pay their dues so to speak. I honestly wouldn't mind relocating for a job, nor so should anybody serious about their field of work.

True, to be honest in a field this specialized you should consider yourself lucky if you get a job in the city you live in. That happened to be the case with me and I am very lucky that it occurred that way.

[LocoAko]

Saw an interesting "Infographic" posted this morning.... Note: Meteorologists/Atmospheric Scientists are listed as having a near-100% employment rate and is the 10th most employed field.

[Ed Lizard]

Agree. My "toilet paper degree" is making me 90K+ a year.

I suspect prior military helped greatly in getting a job at the NWS.

[catoctin wx]

Saw an interesting "Infographic" posted this morning.... Note: Meteorologists/Atmospheric Scientists are listed as having a near-100% employment rate and is the 10th most employed field.

Very cool graphic. I'm honostly pretty surprised that atmospheric science jobs are that highly employed. Although thinking back on it, just about everyone in my graduating class in 2006 got a job or went to grad school (and later got a job) in the field.

Also surprised that nuclear engineering is ranked high amongst unemployed, there is a big market for them right now

[Ed Lizard]

From personal experience, when the price of oil drops to $10/barrel, a year or two of unemployment/underemployment really bites, so it isn't exactly a stable career field, and all the science and math means the people getting BAs are partying at night when petroleum engineering students are studying, but even averaging in the years unemployed or working as a temp, petroleum engineering is seriously good money.

Travel opportunities, interesting work.

Granted, they have websites for pet engs, but there aren't any forums where amateurs look up to professional engineers, and a new well coming in at 500 barrels per day is good, but the YouTube's are of Boxing Day Blizzards, tornadoes in the Plains, and Charley in Florida.

BTW, someone said the Navy is cutting aerographers mates, but enlisting in one of the services, getting some kind of training as a weather observer or whatever, college will be almost free after veteran's benefits, and I'm pretty sure prior service military get points or extra consideration when the NWS is hiring.

[catoctin wx]

can anybody figure out why Ed is still posting about petroleum engineers in this thread?

[LocoAko]

Very cool graphic. I'm honostly pretty surprised that atmospheric science jobs are that highly employed. Although thinking back on it, just about everyone in my graduating class in 2006 got a job or went to grad school (and later got a job) in the field.

Also surprised that nuclear engineering is ranked high amongst unemployed, there is a big market for them right now

That and Biomedical Engineering. Would have assumed that was a big up-and-coming thing. Poor Studio Art.

For the average salary, I wonder if Meteorology should be included under Physical Sciences. ~$69,000 is certainly not bad....

[icebreaker5221]

Also surprised that nuclear engineering is ranked high amongst unemployed, there is a big market for them right now

Not to mention Mathematics and Computer Science? Something sounds screwy about that! Maybe Mathematics majors are doing ok (ones I know from my experience are) and Computer Science majors are ok (dido), but people with the combined degree are not getting a job specific to that major? IDK...

[LocoAko]

Not to mention Mathematics and Computer Science? Something sounds screwy about that! Maybe Mathematics majors are doing ok (ones I know from my experience are) and Computer Science majors are ok (dido), but people with the combined degree are not getting a job specific to that major? IDK...

I noticed that they didn't specifically state it was 'in the field'. I wonder if that is to be implied or not? If it isn't, then I can easily see why meteorologists are so highly employed.

And yeah, boo to petroleum engineering. If we were interested in that we would have gone into it... The end.

[catoctin wx]

That and Biomedical Engineering. Would have assumed that was a big up-and-coming thing. Poor Studio Art.

For the average salary, I wonder if Meteorology should be included under Physical Sciences. ~$69,000 is certainly not bad....

It probably should be included in that. I'm a meteologist/atmospheric scientist by degree, but my working title is Physical Scientist. As for the $69,000, that sounds about right for the combination of higher paid govt jobs and lower paid private forcasting (e.g., accuwx) jobs.

Not to mention Mathematics and Computer Science? Something sounds screwy about that! Maybe Mathematics majors are doing ok (ones I know from my experience are) and Computer Science majors are ok (dido), but people with the combined degree are not getting a job specific to that major? IDK...

I was surprised by that one as well. perhaps they are lumping computer graphics folks (who have a tough job market right now) in with the comp sci graduates>?

[isohume]

I suspect prior military helped greatly in getting a job at the NWS.

It helped, but no more than any one else's veteran's preference. My military jobs didn't consist of anything to do with weather when I applied for the NWS.

I think my GPA (3.54) and the fact that I worked three jobs in weather, while in school, helped more. I was a paid research aide for Iowa State University, I had a year-long internship as an air quality meteorologist for the State of Iowa, and I volunteered at NWS DMX.

[Ed Lizard]

It helped, but no more than any one else's veteran's preference. My military jobs didn't consist of anything to do with weather when I applied for the NWS.

I think my GPA (3.54) and the fact that I worked three jobs in weather, while in school, helped more. I was a paid research aide for Iowa State University, I had a year-long internship as an air quality meteorologist for the State of Iowa, and I volunteered at NWS DMX.

But how many met school grads have a veteran's preference to begin with?

[isohume]

But how many met school grads have a veteran's preference to begin with?

There are a few. There are also military officers applying for NWS intern spots. Veteran's preference is only an additional 5 pts on your final multiple score.

[blizznd]

It helped, but no more than any one else's veteran's preference. My military jobs didn't consist of anything to do with weather when I applied for the NWS.

I think my GPA (3.54) and the fact that I worked three jobs in weather, while in school, helped more. I was a paid research aide for Iowa State University, I had a year-long internship as an air quality meteorologist for the State of Iowa, and I volunteered at NWS DMX.

Hi....

I went to Iowa State too, graduated in 1988. I also volunteered at the WFO Des Moines office, when it was the state forecast office, during the summer of 87. I got into the NWS in 1990, after working at Accu Weather for 1 1/2 yrs after college. The then OIC personally phoned me up and told me to get my applications in as the NWS was hiring big time in preparation for the modernization wave that hit in the 90s. I was very fortunate to ride that modernization hiring wave up to my current GS-13 grade. But I was willing to move anywhere in the country, as I was single. I encourage all folks to bid on NWS positions wide and far, if possible.

[isohume]

Hi....

I went to Iowa State too, graduated in 1988. I also volunteered at the WFO Des Moines office, when it was the state forecast office, during the summer of 87. I got into the NWS in 1990, after working at Accu Weather for 1 1/2 yrs after college. The then OIC personally phoned me up and told me to get my applications in as the NWS was hiring big time in preparation for the modernization wave that hit in the 90s. I was very fortunate to ride that modernization hiring wave up to my current GS-13 grade. But I was willing to move anywhere in the country, as I was single. I encourage all folks to bid on NWS positions wide and far, if possible.

Awesome...class of 2000 here. Go Clones!

Man, the 90s were a golden time to be in the NWS with modernization ongoing. The Super Bid and the Backfill Bid? I imagine it was a crazy adjustment time tho.

[rockchalk83]

This is a question for the NWS mets who read this....do you foresee a time soon when NWS would be hiring with the amount of the 1990's, or do you see a time when the NWS would downsize offices?

[BillB]

Man, the 90s were a golden time to be in the NWS with modernization ongoing. The Super Bid and the Backfill Bid? I imagine it was a crazy adjustment time tho.

This is a question for the NWS mets who read this....do you foresee a time soon when NWS would be hiring with the amount of the 1990's, or do you see a time when the NWS would downsize offices?

The late 80s and the 90s were an abberation in the hiring pattern. The NWS was expanding from 52 forecast offices (the other 200-some offices were observations/radar/NWR/local warning) to 122 WFOs. This was a one-time-only increase, and required something like an additional 500 (not the exact number) forecasters on top of any changes due to retirements. Once those new Met Interns were in the system, and once the management teams were selected for each office (causing a handful of openings that reverberated down the ranks), the two waves of bids to fill (first) Senior Forecaster and (later) General Forecaster openings for each new office brought opportunities in large numbers (and also reverberated down the ranks ultimately bringing more Met Intern openings).

In a few years, the first of us to be hired during that period will reach 30-years of service. A few may use that as an excuse to retire, most will hold on for several additional years. You will see an increase in retirements (over the current rate) in the 2020s, but this will be spread out over a wider span of time than the original hirings so it should not be a tidal wave.

You ask if the original rate of hiring will ever return? It will not happen again in my lifetime or yours.

Downsizing is a real concern. We've been promised that our jobs are not going away, and one would hope that the logistical nightmare of releasing forecasters would cost more than it would gain. Keeping the same number of people but fewer offices would also not work well; there is barely enough room in our building for the staff we currently have, both for administrative work as well as operationally during severe tstms/flooding/winter storms. Imagine that problem at 200% of current staffing. But the federal budget problems are there, they are real, and they continue to fester. We will have to be alert to the possibility that they could eventually impact front-line staffing.

Bottom line... I think there will be openings for meteorologists in the NWS to cover attrition (cross fingers). But the hiring will be much more like the Aughts rather than the late 80s and 90s.

[rockchalk83]

The late 80s and the 90s were an abberation in the hiring pattern. The NWS was expanding from 52 forecast offices (the other 200-some offices were observations/radar/NWR/local warning) to 122 WFOs. This was a one-time-only increase, and required something like an additional 500 (not the exact number) forecasters on top of any changes due to retirements. Once those new Met Interns were in the system, and once the management teams were selected for each office (causing a handful of openings that reverberated down the ranks), the two waves of bids to fill (first) Senior Forecaster and (later) General Forecaster openings for each new office brought opportunities in large numbers (and also reverberated down the ranks ultimately bringing more Met Intern openings).

In a few years, the first of us to be hired during that period will reach 30-years of service. A few may use that as an excuse to retire, most will hold on for several additional years. You will see an increase in retirements (over the current rate) in the 2020s, but this will be spread out over a wider span of time than the original hirings so it should not be a tidal wave.

You ask if the original rate of hiring will ever return? It will not happen again in my lifetime or yours.

Downsizing is a real concern. We've been promised that our jobs are not going away, and one would hope that the logistical nightmare of releasing forecasters would cost more than it would gain. Keeping the same number of people but fewer offices would also not work well; there is barely enough room in our building for the staff we currently have, both for administrative work as well as operationally during severe tstms/flooding/winter storms. Imagine that problem at 200% of current staffing. But the federal budget problems are there, they are real, and they continue to fester. We will have to be alert to the possibility that they could eventually impact front-line staffing.

Bottom line... I think there will be openings for meteorologists in the NWS to cover attrition (cross fingers). But the hiring will be much more like the Aughts rather than the late 80s and 90s.

Thanks Bill for the very insightful answer. I am hoping to work in the NWS one day and am becoming increasingly concerned about the crush of candidates for met jobs in all facets of the industry.

[isohume]

You ask if the original rate of hiring will ever return? It will not happen again in my lifetime or yours.

Yeah I think that's safe to assume. If anything, I could see more consolidation in the next couple decades. Weren't the Center Weather Service Units (CWSUs) supposed to consolidate into two main hubs by now? I'm not even sure if that is still in the works.

Anyway, my point is I think any downsizing will take quite a while and will be done through attrition. I agree with you...that the hiring trends will probably resemble the past 10 years over the next 20 years with some measure of consolidation. I could see SOO and IT positions regionalized to some degree.

[SnowGoose69]

The CWSU thing has been ended for now...so no changes, but it does not mean the 2 office consolidation idea won't eventually come back. The biggest problem in this field I think in 2011 is not so much breaking in, its very much advancing or moving around and I'm not talking about NWS people (its getting harder to advance and move there too!)....there are many graduates now so what is occurring is that alot of the positions that 10 years ago went to people with experience no longer are because they are so many cheap labor new grads in addition to a shaky economy where businesses are trying to be cautious with their money. If only some clients of these corporations knew how horrendously experienced, or NOT experienced some of these people were providing them with weather advice they'd probably run for the hills...with that said I was just informed last night about another recent position with a relatively large company that has gone to someone right out of school, a position which is in a very sensitive area of the field which should never be going to a person without IMO at least 10 years of experience.

[wxmanmitch]

I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but Yahoo news came out with a list of 10 college majors with the lowest unemployment rates. Ironically, atmospheric sciences and meteorology was 9 on the list with a 1.6% unemployment rate. Where or how they came up with this information, I have absolutely no idea. This practically seems blasphemous to me given the number of unemployed mets out there. I'd be more than willing to bet that the actual figure is much higher than 1.6% and that this is simply an example of shoddy journalism. This piece is about as bad as the article US News came out with a while ago stating that mets had an average (or was it median?) salary of 85K, something we all now isn't true. Link to the article:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/10-college-majors-lowest-unemployment-rates-163049193.html

[Ellinwood]

I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but Yahoo news came out with a list of 10 college majors with the lowest unemployment rates. Ironically, atmospheric sciences and meteorology was 9 on the list with a 1.6% unemployment rate. Where or how they came up with this information, I have absolutely no idea. This practically seems blasphemous to me given the number of unemployed mets out there. I'd be more than willing to bet that the actual figure is much higher than 1.6% and that this is simply an example of shoddy journalism. This piece is about as bad as the article US News came out with a while ago stating that mets had an average (or was it median?) salary of 85K, something we all now isn't true. Link to the article:

http://news.yahoo.co...-163049193.html

Neither the article nor the link to the data in the article specify whether the employment is within the actual field of study or not... I would venture a guess that it applies to any employment and not just within the field.

[baroclinic_instability]

I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but Yahoo news came out with a list of 10 college majors with the lowest unemployment rates. Ironically, atmospheric sciences and meteorology was 9 on the list with a 1.6% unemployment rate. Where or how they came up with this information, I have absolutely no idea. This practically seems blasphemous to me given the number of unemployed mets out there. I'd be more than willing to bet that the actual figure is much higher than 1.6% and that this is simply an example of shoddy journalism. This piece is about as bad as the article US News came out with a while ago stating that mets had an average (or was it median?) salary of 85K, something we all now isn't true. Link to the article:

http://news.yahoo.co...-163049193.html

Yeah, I agree, I think a more representative number would be closer to 60-70% not working in the field of met/energy/other related fields. In terms of mets with no job at all (in any field), I am sure it is much lower, but still not 1.6%.

[MN Transplant]

I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but Yahoo news came out with a list of 10 college majors with the lowest unemployment rates. Ironically, atmospheric sciences and meteorology was 9 on the list with a 1.6% unemployment rate. Where or how they came up with this information, I have absolutely no idea. This practically seems blasphemous to me given the number of unemployed mets out there. I'd be more than willing to bet that the actual figure is much higher than 1.6% and that this is simply an example of shoddy journalism. This piece is about as bad as the article US News came out with a while ago stating that mets had an average (or was it median?) salary of 85K, something we all now isn't true. Link to the article:

http://news.yahoo.co...-163049193.html

Here's the Georgetown data:

http://cew.georgetown.edu/whatsitworth/

http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/physicalsciences.pdf

Considering that the unemployment rate for college grads is only 4.4%, it isn't as much of a leap down to those really small numbers.

[MN Transplant]

Neither the article nor the link to the data in the article specify whether the employment is within the actual field of study or not... I would venture a guess that it applies to any employment and not just within the field.

They took the data from the American Community Survey (ACS - Census Bureau), so it is actually a nice set of data, but it is definitely going to miss things like whether you are working in the field of your major. In fact, the last page of the Physical Science section has the following breakdown for sector of employment for the At Sci majors:

1) Public administration

2) Professional services

3) Information

4) Manufacturing (durable)

5) Education services