Reconsider majoring in meteorology!

[Powerball]

The only useful degrees in the future will be medical and business (finance-related) degrees.

So basically, forget the art degrees everyone. Those degrees are useless. Just ask any 20-something Liberal Arts, Philosophy, English, Communications, etc. grduates working at McDonalds.

And for those who are just starting college or plan on attending college, you should REALLY consider getting more than one degree. Not only will it be cheaper getting 2 at once than 2 seperately, but the competition between people with bachelor or even master degrees is getting too fierce for one to stand out with just one degree.

Welcome to the new America!!!

[wall_cloud]

its not anything I have heard anything about. If this were to be true, you could essentially forget about getting a job out of college. Pretty much every new opening would go to military and it would cripple the ability for current NWS employees to advance. I think there may be some bill as suggested but I really doubt that it is a "you must hire veterans" bill.

[baroclinic_instability]

its not anything I have heard anything about. If this were to be true, you could essentially forget about getting a job out of college. Pretty much every new opening would go to military and it would cripple the ability for current NWS employees to advance. I think there may be some bill as suggested but I really doubt that it is a "you must hire veterans" bill.

This is interesting because there is no definitive word on our end either. I have heard many conflicting reports from folks within the NWS, NOAA workforce, and hiring MIC's. Unfortunately the latest trends suggest veterans block everyone. That has been confirmed by NOAA workforce. The only hope now is that this ruling changes and/or there was something lost in translation. For now, we can only go off current trends, and those trends are nobody besides veterans are getting the intern openings, and those who made panels before no longer do because the hiring official deems the panel "over-populated" with veterans. In other words, if they think non-vets have no chance because too many veterans made 5/7/9, then they don't bother passing on non-vets.

[SnowGoose69]

its not anything I have heard anything about. If this were to be true, you could essentially forget about getting a job out of college. Pretty much every new opening would go to military and it would cripple the ability for current NWS employees to advance. I think there may be some bill as suggested but I really doubt that it is a "you must hire veterans" bill.

Logic does tell you that eventually it would have major trickle down effects as generally vets are only qualified to be interns and not forecasters so, true...how WOULD they be able to fill those forecaster roles as people advanced and retired?

[wall_cloud]

Logic does tell you that eventually it would have major trickle down effects as generally vets are only qualified to be interns and not forecasters so, true...how WOULD they be able to fill those forecaster roles as people advanced and retired?

Not all forecasters are former interns. Some are hired right into that position. Also, wouldn't the current veteran's preference interns/forecasters being taking the open forecaster jobs, only to be replaced by new veteran's preference interns?

[isohume]

As far as I know and what is stated on the OPM site is that honorably discharged veterans receive a 5 point preference. Disabled vets receive 10 pts. They are then graded and ranked alongside everyone else. The MIC may then choose anyone for interviews and hire whomever they want after that. They are not required to hire a vet just because they made the panel.

This would be a huge change in the federal hiring practice and I have never heard of it nor of it being practiced by MICs. Until I see it in writing I will assume the hiring policy has not changed wrt veterans.

[wall_cloud]

As far as I know and what is stated on the OPM site is that honorably discharged veterans receive a 5 point preference. Disabled vets receive 10 pts. They are then graded and ranked alongside everyone else. The MIC may then choose anyone for interviews and hire whomever they want after that. They are not required to hire a vet just because they made the panel.

This would be a huge change in the federal hiring practice and I have never heard of it or of it being in practice. Until I see it in writing I will assume the hiring policy has not changed wrt veterans.

ditto. That was my understanding as well.

[OSUmetstud]

http://www.americanw...post__p__120232

This thread doesn't explain it all, but any changes likely would have been made in concert with this. I can say, after talking to hiring MIC's and NOAA workforce, they have actually said that any vet grade 5-7-9 blocks out non-vets and they mentioned the Nov 1 change. Perhaps there was something lost in translation, but it seems to match the recent trends in a number of us not making any panels. I was also told by NOAA workforce management that the hiring official for the opening can decide if they choose to pass on non-vets if they believe too many veterans are on panel.

The only change I know of is the streamlining of the Federal job hiring process, nothing has changed with Veteran's Preference. I have not made any interview panels, but I was making gold category at all three grades, which means that qualified Veteran(s) were blocking all three grades. I've applied to around 10 intern positions over the past 2 months and it's been the same deal.

[baroclinic_instability]

The only change I know of is the streamlining of the Federal job hiring process, nothing has changed with Veteran's Preference. I have not made any interview panels, but I was making gold category at all three grades, which means that qualified Veteran(s) were blocking all three grades. I've applied to around 10 intern positions over the past 2 months and it's been the same deal.

I don't think this is true since it would go against what NOAA Workforce management and the hiring MIC at my last interview passed along. Give NOAA workforce management a call, any of them. I was specifically told since Nov 1 they are more agressively hiring Veterans and now a veteran at 5/7/9 will block out a non-vet at any level. They only refer non-vets if too few vets apply. I was told by the NOAA Workforce manager in central that they use 5-7 as a general cutoff now. I was told by a different office MIC this last month that the one vet that was blocking all others was hired by a different office, hence why we were considered.

[wall_cloud]

I don't think this is true since it would go against what NOAA Workforce management and the hiring MIC at my last interview passed along. Give NOAA workforce management a call, any of them. I was specifically told since Nov 1 they are more agressively hiring Veterans and now a veteran at 5/7/9 will block out a non-vet at any level. They only refer non-vets if too few vets apply. I was told by the NOAA Workforce manager in central that they use 5-7 as a general cutoff now. I was told by a different office MIC this last month that the one vet that was blocking all others was hired by a different office, hence why we were considered.

maybe they mean they are blocking that 1 spot on the panel. I was under the assumption that vets were generally given a free bump to the panel but not guaranteed anything. Again, this is all news to me, so I don't know for sure.

[isohume]

The only change I know of is the streamlining of the Federal job hiring process, nothing has changed with Veteran's Preference. I have not made any interview panels, but I was making gold category at all three grades, which means that qualified Veteran(s) were blocking all three grades. I've applied to around 10 intern positions over the past 2 months and it's been the same deal.

It doesn't necessarily mean qualified veterans beat you out. It could have been qualified non-veterans as well. I'm not sure who told you that veterans "block" panels, but I'm wondering if some sort of lip services was given to you. Those folks at OPM and EASC etc are not exactly known for willfully helping people out. I asked for a sanitized panel (seeing what my score was wrt others w/o seeing their names) recently, something that is legally my right, and they danced around it and never sent me one. I concluded they just didn't want to do the paperwork.

[wall_cloud]

huh. I did an internet search to find out more about this issue and found this article: http://www.eons.com/...rans-Preference

It seems to say the opposite regarding veterans preference. Anyway, I've generally been the most negative, I know, regarding the met employment scene but for recent NWS jobs I've applied for I have been "referred to hiring official". Not sure if that's what you guys were referring to regarding "making the panels". From what I've seen it doesn't look like anything has changed since Nov 1. I actually met with an MIC I have contacts with in late November and he did not mention anything about it specifically other than the whole "its super competitive" bit.

Yes, it is.

[baroclinic_instability]

maybe they mean they are blocking that 1 spot on the panel. I was under the assumption that vets were generally given a free bump to the panel but not guaranteed anything. Again, this is all news to me, so I don't know for sure.

This is exactly what I thought too until I talked to NOAA Workforce mgmt. Both MIC's I have talked to and NOAA Workforce Mgmt have been pretty vague, but I have specifically asked if one vet blocks everyone, and the definitive answer has been yes. Just talked to NOAA Workforce mgmt for Alaska region and he said the same thing.

[Stebo]

its not anything I have heard anything about. If this were to be true, you could essentially forget about getting a job out of college. Pretty much every new opening would go to military and it would cripple the ability for current NWS employees to advance. I think there may be some bill as suggested but I really doubt that it is a "you must hire veterans" bill.

This is NWS, it just means a lot more people will be entering the private sector jobs.

[baroclinic_instability]

huh. I did an internet search to find out more about this issue and found this article: http://www.eons.com/...rans-Preference

It seems to say the opposite regarding veterans preference. Anyway, I've generally been the most negative, I know, regarding the met employment scene but for recent NWS jobs I've applied for I have been "referred to hiring official". Not sure if that's what you guys were referring to regarding "making the panels". From what I've seen it doesn't look like anything has changed since Nov 1. I actually met with an MIC I have contacts with in late November and he did not mention anything about it specifically other than the whole "its super competitive" bit.

There is a difference. Panel is the top group who make an interview.

[OSUmetstud]

I don't think this is true since it would go against what NOAA Workforce management and the hiring MIC at my last interview passed along. Give NOAA workforce management a call, any of them. I was specifically told since Nov 1 they are more agressively hiring Veterans and now a veteran at 5/7/9 will block out a non-vet at any level. They only refer non-vets if too few vets apply. I was told by the NOAA Workforce manager in central that they use 5-7 as a general cutoff now. I was told by a different office MIC this last month that the one vet that was blocking all others was hired by a different office, hence why we were considered.

I talked to these people before...that's why I'm confused. It's been true for some time that if a Veteran qualifies at GS-05/07/09 that they will block all gold candidates. If the Veteran qualifies at GS-05, the candidates that made gold at GS-07 and GS-09 are referred, and compete on an even level with the GS-05 veteran in consideration. And yes, as far as I know, even if only one veteran is qualified at GS-05/07/09, all non-vet golds are blocked and that veteran goes up against any other non-vet candidates in the MAP group. The MIC must offer the job to the veteran even if by chance he is the only one who gets referred.

[OSUmetstud]

It doesn't necessarily mean qualified veterans beat you out. It could have been qualified non-veterans as well. I'm not sure who told you that veterans "block" panels, but I'm wondering if some sort of lip services was given to you. Those folks at OPM and EASC etc are not exactly known for willfully helping people out. I asked for a sanitized panel (seeing what my score was wrt others w/o seeing their names) recently, something that is legally my right, and they danced around it and never sent me one. I concluded they just didn't want to do the paperwork.

Yes it does, I've been told this is how it works by numerous people at region. I made the gold category for at least a few intern positions but was not referred like usual since there was a veteran or veterans who qualified at the GS-05/07/09 levels.

[baroclinic_instability]

I talked to these people before...that's why I'm confused. It's been true for some time that if a Veteran qualifies at GS-05/07/09 that they will block all gold candidates. If the Veteran qualifies at GS-05, the candidates that made gold at GS-07 and GS-09 are referred, and compete on an even level with the GS-05 veteran in consideration. And yes, as far as I know, even if only one veteran is qualified at GS-05/07/09, all non-vet golds are blocked and that veteran goes up against any other non-vet candidates in the MAP group. The MIC must offer the job to the veteran even if by chance he is the only one who gets referred.

From what I understood before, GS-9 for scientific positions (incuding met) had to be competed for. In other words, 5/7 veterans did not beat out GS/9 gold category non-vets. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

[SnowGoose69]

This is NWS, it just means a lot more people will be entering the private sector jobs.

You're better off doing something else if thats the case though, most people enter this field anticipating they'll eventually get an NWS job since outside of very small percentage of private sector people thats the only way to financially get by, unless of course you have a 2nd income...I'm fortunate enough to be one of those few to make it in the private sector but it took awhile to do so.

[isohume]

Yes it does, I've been told this is how it works by numerous people at region. I made the gold category for at least a few intern positions but was not referred like usual since there was a veteran or veterans who qualified at the GS-05/07/09 levels.

I want to see this supposed ruling in writing. I have a hard time believing a major hiring practice change has been made in NOAA and I and others employed by NOAA haven't heard anything about it. If this would've happened...the bargaining unit (union) would have sent out a communique detailing this new law to everyone. I just don't believe the hearsay about all this is all.

[OSUmetstud]

From what I understood before, GS-9 for scientific positions (incuding met) had to be competed for. In other words, 5/7 veterans did not beat out GS/9 gold category non-vets. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

I've talked to people at region over the past month. I don't think they were lying to me. GS-05 and GS-07 vets would not block at GS-09 non-vet candidate. In fact, a GS-09 vet would not block at GS-05 non-vet either.

[Stebo]

You're better off doing something else if thats the case though, most people enter this field anticipating they'll eventually get an NWS job since outside of very small percentage of private sector people thats the only way to financially get by, unless of course you have a 2nd income...I'm fortunate enough to be one of those few to make it in the private sector but it took awhile to do so.

Yeah it's understandable but it seems like unless something were to change this would be what college grads will end up doing.

[OSUmetstud]

I want to see this supposed ruling in writing. I have a hard time believing a major hiring practice has been made in NOAA and I and others employed by NOAA haven't heard anything about it. If this would've happened...the bargaining unit (union) would have sent out a communique detailing this new law to everyone. I just don't believe in the hearsay about all this is all.

Well give someone a call...in fact, other NWS mets on this board in that met job thread reiterated the same procedure that I was told about by two people at NWS ER.

[baroclinic_instability]

I've talked to people at region over the past month. I don't think they were lying to me. GS-05 and GS-07 vets would not block at GS-09 non-vet candidate. In fact, a GS-09 vet would not block at GS-05 non-vet either.

I think we can chalk this one up to conflicting information. Also seems isohume may be on to something as well regarding what/amount of information they divulge. I wish I could get a straight answer, but it seems nobody truly knows.I truly hope I am wrong, but the latest trends seem to indicate some sort of change has occurred in the recent months.

[baroclinic_instability]

Yeah it's understandable but it seems like unless something were to change this would be what college grads will end up doing.

This is nothing new. The private sector has long been a haven for new undergrads looking for experience.

[OSUmetstud]

I think we can chalk this one up to conflicting information. Also seems isohume may be on to something as well regarding what/amount of information they divulge. I wish I could get a straight answer, but it seems nobody truly knows.I truly hope I am wrong, but the latest trends seem to indicate some sort of change happening.

The change might be that veteran's block non-veterans at specific grades...not just get the 5 or 10 pts. on their application. I don't know how long the "block rule" has been in place.

[isohume]

Well give someone a call...in fact, other NWS mets on this board in that met job thread reiterated the same procedure that I was told about by two people at NWS ER.

I don't want to hear someone say something. I want to see the ruling in writing and I want to know why the union has not sent out an official document on this new hiring practice to anyone in NOAA. I will ask our station union representative to look into it though.

[Stebo]

This is nothing new. The private sector has long been a haven for new undergrads looking for experience.

No I agree, its just there might be more than before now.

[OSUmetstud]

I don't want to hear someone say something. I want to see the ruling in writing and I want to know why the union has not sent out an official document on this new hiring practice to anyone in NOAA. I will ask our station union representative to look into it though.

As soon as you hear something official let me know. Tom Niziol (NWS BUF MIC)said the same thing when I asked him if he could look at my resume.

[isohume]

As soon as you hear something official let me know. Tom Niziol (NWS BUF MIC)said the same thing when I asked him if he could look at my resume.

I will. Hopefully I can get a written response from the union and if I'm allowed to post it I will.