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Super Typhoon Haiyan (split from WPac thread)


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Comparing those images to images of places like Cateel after Bopha/Pablo this looks bad or even worse than images showing wind damage from that storm (using that as a frame of reference as building standards are probably comparable). The images of Giprolos also show severe wind damage. Almost certain every community along that coast looks like that.

 

The first image shows structures with heavy damage despite being protected on all sides due to the downtown location. Remember winds will have a much greater effect on structures in an exposed location like in the second photo. Not surprised the radar was destroyed. being above the ground it was likely exposed to category 5 winds at that location.

 

EDIT: The second photo is actually of an island off the coast from Samar.

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How anyone survived that in that town is a miracle. WOW

 

Wind damage is generally more survivable than storm surge or flash flooding. More people died from storm surge in Sandy than died from winds in Andrew, for example. Even in Joplin, thousands of houses were reduced to foundations yet "only" 160 people died.

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Those aerial pics look like EF4-EF5 damage. From a hurricane. 

No they don't. I have yet to see any damage pics consistent with that of a violent tornado. Horrific destruction don't get me wrong, but not of that caliber. I have yet to see any slabbed homes or significant debarking. The wind damage from Andrew in the Naranja area was more impressive than what I have seen so far with Haiyan.

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No they don't. I have yet to see any damage pics consistent with that of a violent tornado. Horrific destruction don't get me wrong, but not of that caliber. I have yet to see any slabbed homes or significant debarking. The wind damage from Andrew in the Naranja area was more impressive than what I have seen so far with Haiyan.

 

lol

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How is that funny? Show me an example of that, cause iv'e heard the claims but no actual pictures to support them. Probably to early to tell where the worst wind damage was, but still.

 

Quite frankly that blowdown picture is comparable to what we see when a violent tornado goes through a forest.

 

And to expect tree debarkings (which I have seen in some areas regardless) and slabbed homes from a TC when the dynamics work differently than in a tornado (especially regarding vertical velocities) is unrealistic in most cases.

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No they don't. I have yet to see any damage pics consistent with that of a violent tornado. Horrific destruction don't get me wrong, but not of that caliber. I have yet to see any slabbed homes or significant debarking. The wind damage from Andrew in the Naranja area was more impressive than what I have seen so far with Haiyan.

Impossible to compare because the wind fields are vastly different. Tony had a fantastic post on it a while back and everything he noted is valid.

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Quite frankly that blowdown picture is comparable to what we see when a violent tornado goes through a forest.

 

And to expect tree debarkings (which I have seen in some areas regardless) and slabbed homes from a TC when the dynamics work differently than in a tornado (especially regarding vertical velocities) is unrealistic in most cases.

I would agree, but I was rejecting the idea that it looks comparable to EF5 tornado damage, which it doesn't for obvious reasons. I saw some pictures that could be mistaken for debarking, but a lot of trees in tropical climates have thin, smooth bark that would make it really hard to tell without being there. Honestly, I would be surprised to see any.

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The idea of comparing to tornado damage just doesn't work regardless. There's not much of a vertical component, and although TC winds can be very dynamic and gusty, they aren't really comparable to the sudden, violent accelerations and directional shifts seen in tornadoes. I'd imagine debris loading wouldn't be nearly the same either, and that's a significant part of how tornadoes cause damage.

 

It'd be convenient to use the EF-scale as a rough guide, but it doesn't work. I don't think there's any way to reliably estimate the intensity from the photos and video we've seen anyway, at least not without a lot more information. I do think we can safely say it was extremely violent and some areas probably experienced winds above (possibly well above) the Cat. 5 threshold.

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The idea of comparing to tornado damage just doesn't work regardless. There's not much of a vertical component, and although TC winds can be very dynamic and gusty, they aren't really comparable to the sudden, violent accelerations and directional shifts seen in tornadoes. I'd imagine debris loading wouldn't be nearly the same either, and that's a significant part of how tornadoes cause damage.

 

It'd be convenient to use the EF-scale as a rough guide, but it doesn't work. I don't think there's any way to reliably estimate the intensity from the photos and video we've seen anyway, though I think we can safely say it was extremely violent and some areas probably experienced winds above (if not well above) the Cat. 5 threshold.

I completely agree, and I'm not expecting to see any slabbing/debarking. I'm just stating that it is unrealistic for people to expect that degree of wind damage from a Tropical Cyclone. It just doesn't happen.

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Judging by the proximity to the coast, the first two images are probably due to the combination of the wind and surge, although the first picture really does look like Banda Aceh in Sumatra after the Boxing Day Tsunami.

 

Yeah, a lot of the pictures look like Tsunami damage... the surge had to come in like a tsunami. 

 

post-5795-0-90511900-1384115339_thumb.jp

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I completely agree, and I'm not expecting to see any slabbing/debarking. I'm just stating that it is unrealistic for people to expect that degree of wind damage from a Tropical Cyclone. It just doesn't happen.

This whole notion of de-barking is pretty misunderstood. The debarking occurs from debris strikes, not the wind itself. So the amount of it depends not only on the wind speed but the immediate environment and debris source.

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Well Josh has come in with a pressure data. 960mb was bout 40mb higher than I was expecting for being about 3 miles outside the eye and 10 miles from the exact center.

 

Warning I'm not a met, but:

I doubt there was a 100mb pressure drop in 10 miles. The central pressure may very well have only been around 910mb or higher.   That would still leave room for an insane pressure gradient in the eyewall. Also since it was at a lower latitude only around 11N much stronger wind speeds are possible. 

 

That would explain why the wind damage is about the worst I've ever seen with a TC.

 

Edit: Josh was more like 13-15 miles from the exact center.

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From an AP article "Looters raided grocery stores and gas stations in search of food, fuel and water as the government began relief efforts and international aid operations got underway."

That's not my definition of looters. That's my definition of survivors. Bad choice of words. Looters carry tvs merchandise and other non life essential things from stores.

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