Super Typhoon Haiyan (split from WPac thread)

[Amped]

That is a tremendously sudden surge.  I suspect a rapid increase in wind velocity coupled with converging coastline and very shallow waters offshore contributed, but it does seem unusually sudden even given those factors. 

 

Yeah I could imagine that happening on one of the south facing bays maybe Giporios or Balangia Possibly  Guiuan which faces west.  Winds would have been offshore for the first half of the storm in these places and then suddenly shifted onshore when the eye passed and ccaused a sudden rush of water.

 

The video says it was in Hernan, which means water would be rushing out of the bay and maybe the wind shift pushed it into the coastline just north of the bay.

 

The blizzard of 93 caused a similar less severe event north of Tampa.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century#Florida

[patrick05]

does anybody know what happened to the relief thread started by Tullioz??

[Tullioz]

does anybody know what happened to the relief thread started by Tullioz??

Not sure what happened to it either so I will not stray off topic in this tread. Since it is gone I will just post a link to some photos I posted on FB. I will be providing more details and photos on there in the coming days as well for those who would like to follow the progress.

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202373640043274.1073741854.1260901638&type=1&l=1e1076f4b8

[andyhb]

Haiyan is the deadliest Philippine typhoon on record now with 5235 fatalities in the country alone and counting.

[Amped]

On a side note the Miami metro has a much larger population than Tacloban City.  It is not inconceivable that south Florida will one day get hit with a storm of similar intensity to Hiayan.

Okay maybe it'll be 175 mph instead of 195mph but the flat terrain of south Florida may not slow down the winds as much when it makes landfall, so this could even the score in terms of winds in populated areas.  

 

I don't know how much more prepared south Florida is compared to Tacloban City, but this storm definitely severe as a warning for what will inevitably happen to Miami given enough time.

[Ed Lizard]

On a side note the Miami metro has a much larger population than Tacloban City.  It is not inconceivable that south Florida will one day get hit with a storm of similar intensity to Hiayan.

Okay maybe it'll be 175 mph instead of 195mph but the flat terrain of south Florida may not slow down the winds as much when it makes landfall, so this could even the score in terms of winds in populated areas.  

 

I don't know how much more prepared south Florida is compared to Tacloban City, but this storm definitely severe as a warning for what will inevitably happen to Miami given enough time.

Not sure surge is the same, and Miami has strong building codes.  Texas has never had a Cat 5 in post-Columbian history, probably never will, but has had Cat 4s with surge.  I believe Texas Windstorm Insurance Agency (post Celia, all companies writing home-owners anywhere in Texas forced to participate when individual companies started cancelling policies) has only started mandating building codes since 2006, and only in the coastal counties where TWIA is the insurer of last resort.  I *think* the codes are only new builds.  TWIA, by the way, doesn't insure against surge, which caused a bunch of lawsuits after 2008, people claiming their homes blew away before the surge in a Cat 2.  Yeah, sure.  Note also even the immediate coast areas are mandated to survive 130 mph 3 second gusts.

 

 

IMBY-ism, or is my home state most vulnerable to a major hurricane with most buildings built before modern building codes.

[ncforecaster89]

On a side note the Miami metro has a much larger population than Tacloban City. It is not inconceivable that south Florida will one day get hit with a storm of similar intensity to Hiayan.

Okay maybe it'll be 175 mph instead of 195mph but the flat terrain of south Florida may not slow down the winds as much when it makes landfall, so this could even the score in terms of winds in populated areas.

I don't know how much more prepared south Florida is compared to Tacloban City, but this storm definitely severe as a warning for what will inevitably happen to Miami given enough time.

Aside from the fact we have no way to actually confirm the estimated satellite based intensity of Haiyan at its initial landfall on the Samar coastline (which is the only possible area that might've experienced that estimated peak intensity), it's highly likely that Haiyan wasn't any more intense than Andrew was at landfall near Homestead-when it came ashore just S of Palo.

Even then, Tacloban City likely didn't experience category five conditions-although it did experience a very catastrophic storm surge. I suspect that the peak winds felt anywhere in Tacloban City didn't exceed category four intensity.

With the aforementioned in mind, the Miami metro-area just missed getting slammed by a TC of Haiyan's intensity not that long ago. Not to mention, the Great Labor Day hurricane of 1935 had an intensity very close to that of Haiyan, at their respective peak intensities, when it plowed into the Florida Keys.

[jordanwx]

Aside from the fact we have no way to actually confirm the estimated satellite based intensity of Haiyan at its initial landfall on the Samar coastline (which is the only possible area that might've experienced that estimated peak intensity), it's highly likely that Haiyan wasn't any more intense than Andrew was at landfall near Homestead-when it came ashore just S of Palo.

Maybe in terms of winds, certainly not pressure. Different satellite enhancements below but Haiyan's satellite presentation blows Andrew's out of the water. Eye-eyewall temp diff, definition of the eye, and symmetry of CDO are all far superior in Haiyan's image. I suspect Haiyan was stronger in it's initial landfall than Andrew was for its landfall in S Florida (in terms of max winds). Pressure was undoubtedly lower with Haiyan due to larger size and obviously better satellite presentation.

 

 

[HurricaneJosh]

Even then, Tacloban City likely didn't experience category five conditions-although it did experience a very catastrophic storm surge. I suspect that the peak winds felt anywhere in Tacloban City didn't exceed category four intensity.

 

 

You talk about that like it's no big deal.  I'm inclined to agree that downtown Tacloban City had Cat-4-- not Cat-5-- conditions.  

 

Tell me what other cities across the world with over 200K people have had proper Cat-4 winds raking their downtown area in the last 40 years.

 

If you can't name any-- besides maybe Cancun-- then you can maybe start to get your head around how extreme this event was. I'm not sure you comprehend it.  You seem determined to downplay Haiyan. Your previous, bizarre comparison of the winds we experienced in Haiyan's eyewall with the winds you experienced in Katrina (100 miles inland, when it was a rapidly decaying Cat 1) says to me that you have some kind of mental block about Haiyan.

 

As per all agencies (JMA, JTWC, PAGASA, and HK Observatory), it was a Cat-5 landfall in Leyte.  Maybe the absolute highest isotach missed Tacloban City's downtown area by a mile or two, but the bottom line is that the inner core raked the city.  This was one of the worst tropical-cyclone landfalls worldwide, ever, in terms of severity and aim.

 

No need to downplay it, Tony.

[HurricaneJosh]

By the way, here are IR images near the times of the Samar (Guiuan) and Leyte (Tacloban City) landfalls.  Both presentations are stunning:

 

 

[ncforecaster89]

You talk about that like it's no big deal. I'm inclined to agree that downtown Tacloban City had Cat-4-- not Cat-5-- conditions.

Tell me what other cities across the world with over 200K people have had proper Cat-4 winds raking their downtown area in the last 40 years.

If you can't name any-- besides maybe Cancun-- then you can maybe start to get your head around how extreme this event was. I'm not sure you comprehend it. You seem determined to downplay Haiyan. Your previous, bizarre comparison of the winds we experienced in Haiyan's eyewall with the winds you experienced in Katrina (100 miles inland, when it was a rapidly decaying Cat 1) says to me that you have some kind of mental block about Haiyan.

As per all agencies (JMA, JTWC, PAGASA, and HK Observatory), it was a Cat-5 landfall in Leyte. Maybe the absolute highest isotach missed Tacloban City's downtown area by a mile or two, but the bottom line is that the inner core raked the city. This was one of the worst tropical-cyclone landfalls worldwide, ever, in terms of severity and aim.

No need to downplay it, Tony.

First off, I don't appreciate the unwarranted personal attack you made in your post-stating I might supposedly have some sort of mental block regarding Haiyan, which is totally absurd! From that erroneous perspective, One could make the same implication as to how you might be overstating Haiyan's intensity at your particular intercept location, which ISN'T what I'm implying-just for the record.

That said, I don't understand why you keep misrepresenting a post I made previously ONLY referencing my own experience with 130 mph wind gusts, during Katrina, while it was still a very formidable category TWO. Just for the record, it wasn't your typical category two hurricane at that point either-it exhibited a very high MSW to wind gust ratio.

To reiterate, I ONLY referenced my personal experience with Katrina in the context of sharing my own personal opinion regarding the max 3-second wind gusts you likely encountered at your specific intercept location. To refresh your memory, I stated that you no doubt experienced wind gusts exceeding 130 mph, based on the aforementioned experience I've had with wind gusts of that magnitude, and the extreme wind gusts you and James captured on film. With that in mind, I also stated that the maximum wind gusts you encountered in Tacloban City were very likely in the 140-150 mph range.

To correct further misinformation you supplied in your post, I NEVER said I intercepted Katrina some 100 miles inland (that's where Laurel, MS. recorded a 110 mph wind gust before their anemometer was destroyed), but rather at a location between Poplarville and S Hattiesburg, in southern Mississippi (55 miles inland).

If you wish to debate some particular point, please at least have the decency to NOT misrepresent something I've said or resort to unnecessary personal attacks.

I'm sorry you choose to believe that I am supposedly downplaying the severity of the event, when nothing could be further from the truth!

Edit: keep in mind that I'm one of those who clearly stated that I felt it was inappropriate for anyone to be profiting off the severity of this horrific event-at a time when so many are suffering unimaginably. To suggest I'm somehow trying to downplay it is completely illogical and wholly inaccurate!

[HurricaneJosh]

First off, I don't appreciate the unwarranted personal attack you made in your post-stating I might supposedly have some sort of mental block regarding Haiyan, which is totally absurd! From that erroneous perspective, One could make the same implication as to how you might be overstating Haiyan's intensity at your particular intercept location, which ISN'T what I'm implying-just for the record.

 

I'm not going to get into a big, disruptive back-and-forth about this.

 

Re: Haiyan's landfall intensity, all I did was relay the official operational estimates of four agencies. There's no way to imply I'm overstating the intensity when I'm just relaying official agency estimates. This aside, others in this thread have pointed out that Haiyan's satellite presentation completely demolishes anything in the Atlantic in the last twenty years.  It's kind of obvious when you just look at the images-- for example, the  side-by-side between Haiyan and Katrina.

 

This aside, as usual, my wind estimates are lower than what you hear others saying-- for example, that the city got Cat-5 winds. So, no, I don't think you can imply I'm overstating.

[HurricaneJosh]

First off, I don't appreciate the unwarranted personal attack you made in your post-stating I might supposedly have some sort of mental block regarding Haiyan, which is totally absurd! From that erroneous perspective, One could make the same implication as to how you might be overstating Haiyan's intensity at your particular intercept location, which ISN'T what I'm implying-just for the record.

That said, I don't understand why you keep misrepresenting a post I made previously ONLY referencing my own experience with 130 mph wind gusts, during Katrina, while it was still a very formidable category TWO. Just for the record, it wasn't your typical category two hurricane at that point either-it exhibited a very high MSW to wind gust ratio.

To reiterate, I ONLY referenced my personal experience with Katrina in the context of sharing my own personal opinion regarding the max 3-second wind gusts you likely encountered at your specific intercept location. To refresh your memory, I stated that you no doubt experienced wind gusts exceeding 130 mph, based on the aforementioned experience I've had with wind gusts of that magnitude, and the extreme wind gusts you and James captured on film. With that in mind, I also stated that the maximum wind gusts you encountered in Tacloban City were very likely in the 140-150 mph range.

To correct further misinformation you supplied in your post, I NEVER said I intercepted Katrina some 100 miles inland (that's where Laurel, MS. recorded a 110 mph wind gust before their anemometer was destroyed), but rather at a location between Poplarville and S Hattiesburg, in southern Mississippi (55 miles inland).

If you wish to debate some particular point, please at least have the decency to NOT misrepresent something I've said or resort to unnecessary personal attacks.

I'm sorry you choose to believe that I am supposedly downplaying the severity of the event, when nothing could be further from the truth!

Edit: keep in mind that I'm one of those who clearly stated that I felt it was inappropriate for anyone to be profiting off the severity of this horrific event-at a time when so many are suffering unimaginably. To suggest I'm somehow trying to downplay it is completely illogical and wholly inaccurate!

 

Quoted so you can stop editing the post.

[ncforecaster89]

Furthermore, Josh, I have consistently stated that I felt it's highly likely that Haiyan was STILL at category five intensity at its second landfall just S of Palo. In fact, I had just stated as much in the post you took exception with.

The point I was making in that particular post is that it's likely that Haiyan was at a similar intensity as Andrew when it made landfall in Lyete (E.g. MSW of 165 mph). In doing so, I was just simply pointing out the fact that there have been Natl. TCs of similar intensity as Haiyan (at its landfall near Tacloban City) that have just missed metro-Miami in the past.

That's the only point I was making. Nothing more, and nothing less.

[ncforecaster89]

Quoted so you can stop editing the post.

What's your problem? The only edits I've made are to correct typos. Thank you. I stand behind everything I post or say. Please do quote EXACTLY what I say-not what you think or try to suggest I'm being disingenuous.

[HurricaneJosh]

Furthermore, Josh, I have consistently stated that I felt it's highly likely that Haiyan was STILL at category five intensity at its second landfall just S of Palo. In fact, I had just stated as much in the post you took exception with.

The point I was making in that particular post is that it's likely that Haiyan was at a similar intensity as Andrew when it made landfall in Lyete (E.g. MSW of 165 mph). In doing so, I was just simply pointing out the fact that there have been Natl. TCs of similar intensity as Haiyan (at its landfall near Tacloban City) that have just missed metro-Miami in the past.

That's the only point I was making. Nothing more, and nothing less.

 

Not sure I agree-- the comparison jordanwx made above shows a big difference between Haiyan and Andrew, and I don't know that Haiyan deteriorated a whole lot before landfall in Leyte. Look at the images I posted.

 

I don't know that I agree with the JTWC's 170 kt-- that just sounds so insanely high to me-- but I think it was higher than a minimal Cat 5.

[ncforecaster89]

I'm not going to get into a big, disruptive back-and-forth with about this.

Re: Haiyan's landfall intensity, all I did was relay the official operational estimates of four agencies. There's no way to imply I'm overstating the intensity when I'm just relaying official agency estimates. This aside, others in this thread have pointed out that Haiyan's satellite presentation completely demolishes anything in the Atlantic in the last twenty years. It's kind of obvious when you just look at the images-- for example, the side-by-side between Haiyan and Katrina.

This aside, as usual, my wind estimates are lower than what you hear others saying-- for example, that the city got Cat-5 winds. So, no, I don't think you can imply I'm overstating.

What's wrong with you, seriously? You're a very smart and articulate individual, so I'm dumbfounded how you continue to misinterpret my posts.

How did you miss the point where I stared that I'm NOT suggesting you are or were overestimating your experience. Please reread. I was simply pointing out just how absurd and unfair it was for you to mischaracterize my intentions and resort to wholly unwarranted personal attacks-something you still haven't acknowledged as inappropriate and unjustified.

[HurricaneJosh]

What's wrong with you, seriously? You're a very smart and articulate individual, so I'm dumbfounded how you continue to misinterpret my posts.

How did you miss the point where I stared that I'm NOT suggesting you are or were overestimating your experience. Please reread. I was simply pointing out just how absurd and unfair it was for you to mischaracterize my intentions and resort to wholly unwarranted personal attacks-something you still haven't acknowledged as inappropriate and unjustified.

 

Hey, Tony-- sorry you're offended.  We're just not communicating.  Peace out.  Have a good night.

[ncforecaster89]

Not sure I agree-- the comparison jordanwx made above shows a big difference between Haiyan and Andrew, and I don't know that Haiyan deteriorated a whole lot before landfall in Leyte. Look at the images I posted.

I don't know that I agree with the JTWC's 170 kt-- that just sounds so insanely high to me-- but I think it was higher than a minimal Cat 5.

Please understand that I genuinely respect your opinion, as I would hope you could do the same, even if we just happen to disagree.

Personally, I wouldn't characterize Andrew as simply being only a minimal category five TC-a MSW of 165 mph is very extreme, to say the least. You could be correct in suggesting that Haiyan may have been a little more intense than Andrew, at its landfall in Lyete, but unfortunately, it appears we will never truly know for sure.

As I've stated numerous times, both in these threads and in personal correspondence to you, there's very little doubt you experienced the eye wall of a category five TC. It appears that the major point of disagreement centers upon the continuous suggestion by so many on here that Tacloban City encountered category five MSWs, which I don't believe to be an accurate summation. That being said, I do feel there's very little doubt that the city did experience extreme category four conditions. Even without the very catastrophic storm surge, it would still have been a very extreme event!

[HurricaneJosh]

Please understand that I genuinely respect your opinion, as I would hope you could do the same, even if we just happen to disagree.

Personally, I wouldn't characterize Andrew as simply being only a minimal category five TC-a MSW of 165 mph is very extreme, to say the least. You could be correct in suggesting that Haiyan may have been a little more intense than Andrew, at its landfall in Lyete, but unfortunately, it appears we will never truly know for sure.

As I've stated numerous times, both in these threads and in personal correspondence to you, there's very little doubt you experienced the eye wall of a category five TC. It appears that the major point of disagreement centers upon the continuous suggestion by so many on here that Tacloban City encountered category five MSWs, which I don't believe to be an accurate summation. That being said, I do feel there's very little doubt that the city did experience extreme category four conditions. Even without the very catastrophic storm surge, it would still have been a very extreme event!

 

We're on the same page.   My opinion about the conditions in TAC during Haiyan is the same as yours.

 

I think maybe where we differ perhaps is an appreciation for the extreme novelty of that-- how unusual it is for Cat-4 winds to rake a city of that size. That is an extremely rare event.

 

Off the top of my head... I think it probably happened in Santo Domingo during David 1979.  I have a hunch that actual Cat-4 winds didn't make it up to Cancun proper during Wilma 2005, although they probably did during Gilbert 1988. It's possible Corpus Christi was raked by Cat-4 winds during Celia 1970-- let's see what the reanalysis folks say.  I imagine Manila has had Cat-4 conditions at some point.  Charleston did not get Cat-4 conditions in Hugo 1989.

 

In older history, Miami most certainly had Cat-4 conditions in the 1926 storm.

[ncforecaster89]

Maybe in terms of winds, certainly not pressure. Different satellite enhancements below but Haiyan's satellite presentation blows Andrew's out of the water. Eye-eyewall temp diff, definition of the eye, and symmetry of CDO are all far superior in Haiyan's image. I suspect Haiyan was stronger in it's initial landfall than Andrew was for its landfall in S Florida (in terms of max winds). Pressure was undoubtedly lower with Haiyan due to larger size and obviously better satellite presentation.

I don't disagree with anything you mentioned in this post. I'd highlight the word, "anything" if I weren't posting from my cell phone.

To clarify, I was solely speaking of their respective intensities in terms of the maximum sustained wind (MSW). As I noted in my post, I was only speculating on the second landfall (in closest proximity to Tacloban City), taking into consideration that Haiyan had no doubt weakened somewhat from its initial landfall (and peak intensity). To reiterate, I still suspect that the two respective TCs were likely at a very similar intensity (relative to the MSW) at their landfalls in Lyete and Homestead, respectively. That said, I sure wish we didn't have to rely solely on satellite-based intensity estimates to draw such speculative conclusions.

[Ed Lizard]

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/hurdat/august01/Powell_summary.html

 

Even if Andrew was a Cat 5 as per reanalysis, it almost certainly wasn't Haiyan strength.

 

Satellite (even w/ different color scales) show the difference.  And satellite didn't degrade that badly during the short time passing over the tip of Samar, IIRC.

[Ed Lizard]

Based on sustained 125 mph measured at NWS CRP from the Southwest, ie, when Celia was already at least partly inland, I'd be surprised if it isn't upgraded to a low end Cat 4, really.

[HurricaneJosh]

Based on sustained 125 mph measured at NWS CRP from the Southwest, ie, when Celia was already at least partly inland, I'd be surprised if it isn't upgraded to a low end Cat 4, really.

Agree. I've always been a big proponent of a Celia upgrade. The wind damage was extremely severe, and the airport data are impressive.

[HurricaneJosh]

Other decent-sized cities I thought of that probably had at least Cat-4 conditions include Bluefields, Nicaragua, in Joan 1988; Chetumal, Mexico, in Janet 1955 and Carmen 1974: and Belize City in Hattie 1961. However, all of these cities were much, much smaller than Tacloban City when these events occurred-- and, actually Bluefields and Belize City even now are way smaller. So these don't count.

[ncforecaster89]

We're on the same page. My opinion about the conditions in TAC during Haiyan is the same as yours.

I think maybe where we differ perhaps is an appreciation for the extreme novelty of that-- how unusual it is for Cat-4 winds to rake a city of that size. That is an extremely rare event.

Off the top of my head... I think it probably happened in Santo Domingo during David 1979. I have a hunch that actual Cat-4 winds didn't make it up to Cancun proper during Wilma 2005, although they probably did during Gilbert 1988. It's possible Corpus Christi was raked by Cat-4 winds during Celia 1970-- let's see what the reanalysis folks say. I imagine Manila has had Cat-4 conditions at some point. Charleston did not get Cat-4 conditions in Hugo 1989.

In older history, Miami most certainly had Cat-4 conditions in the 1926 storm.

Hey Josh, so thankful we are on the same page and communicating much more clearly!

That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the rarity of a large metropolitan area being impacted by such extreme conditions. Like you mentioned, it's a relatively rare and very significant event, and thankfully so.

In addition to the TCs you mentioned already, I guess we could possibly add Cyclone Tracy in Darwin and the 1900 Galveston hurricane. Those are just a couple off the top of my head. The few we've noted here highlights just how extraordinary it is for such a large metropolitan city to be slammed by category four conditions!

I'm going to call it a night, and I too want to wish you a good one, as well!

[jordanwx]

I don't disagree with anything you mentioned in this post. I'd highlight the word, "anything" if I weren't posting from my cell phone.

To clarify, I was solely speaking of their respective intensities in terms of the maximum sustained wind (MSW). As I noted in my post, I was only speculating on the second landfall (in closest proximity to Tacloban City), taking into consideration that Haiyan had no doubt weakened somewhat from its initial landfall (and peak intensity). To reiterate, I still suspect that the two respective TCs were likely at a very similar intensity (relative to the MSW) at their landfalls in Lyete and Homestead, respectively. That said, I sure wish we didn't have to rely solely on satellite-based intensity estimates to draw such speculative conclusions.

Yeah I would agree. By Haiyan's second landfall the storm was probably around 180 MPH (+/- 5MPH), which is a similar wind speed to Andrew's MSW.

[aslkahuna]

I find it hard to accept JT's 170kt sustained wind based upon estimated pressure of 895 mb which is 140kt based upon the wind/pressure relationship for typhoons developed by JTWC in the 1970s and which was shown to be fairly represntative with the recon obs from STY Megi in 2010. The rumored 889 mb pressure for Haiyan at first landfall would support a 145-150kt typhoon. while 160 kt storms would be 880 or lower since ambient pressures in the Philippine Sea are lower than the ATL. As far as Manila is concerned, since WWII they have never had Cat-4 conditions. Highest gust recorded at the airport was 105kt during STY Angela in 1995 which was a solid high end Cat 4 hit in Daet in the Bicol region. Pre WWII records do not exist for Manila since the city was completely destroyed.

Steve

[jordanwx]

I find it hard to accept JT's 170kt sustained wind based upon estimated pressure of 895 mb which is 140kt based upon the wind/pressure relationship for typhoons developed by JTWC in the 1970s and which was shown to be fairly represntative with the recon obs from STY Megi in 2010. The rumored 889 mb pressure for Haiyan at first landfall would support a 145-150kt typhoon. while 160 kt storms would be 880 or lower since ambient pressures in the Philippine Sea are lower than the ATL. As far as Manila is concerned, since WWII they have never had Cat-4 conditions. Highest gust recorded at the airport was 105kt during STY Angela in 1995 which was a solid high end Cat 4 hit in Daet in the Bicol region. Pre WWII records do not exist for Manila since the city was completely destroyed.

Steve

That is why many, myself included, believe that 895mb was a serious low-ball by the JTWC. Haiyan was probably 875-885mb storm at its peak.

 

Also, keep in mind that pressure-wind relationship is very rough -- large error bars. You mention 889 mb supporting a 145-150 kt storm as if minimum pressure gives us the maximum wind speed within +/- 2.5kts. If you think the relationship is that exact you are kidding yourself.

[Ed Lizard]

That is why many, myself included, believe that 895mb was a serious low-ball by the JTWC. Haiyan was probably 875-885mb storm at its peak.

 

Also, keep in mind that pressure-wind relationship is very rough -- large error bars. You mention 889 mb supporting a 145-150 kt storm as if pressure gives us the maximum wind speed with +/- 2.5kts. If you think the relationship is that exact you are kidding yourself.

 

 

Had a 944 mb storm that was only a Cat 2 landfall near here 5 years ago.  And basing winds on estimated pressure, when neither was measured directly but inferred via Dvorak, well.  I have no problems believing Haiyan was at lower pressure when corrected for WPac vs Caribbean than Wilma.  I don't know where to find it, but I'd love to see Dvorak of Wilma at its strongest versus Haiyan.