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November Banter Thread

H2O

By H2O,
in Mid Atlantic

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wxmeddler

wxmeddler

Posted
Posted

I want to strike this out now. Josh is not here to get famous and/or sell his footage to the highest news bidder. He is there for the experience, awe, and a bit of data.

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Ian

Ian

Posted
Posted

Another "topic not to touch."

 

Awe wins for sure.. but he doesn't go out and not let anyone know.  ;) 

 

I think most chasers want people to see their "product" etc.  That's my primary secondary interest -- to build a portfolio of storm imagery, and all that comes with it -- behind the fact that storms are cool. 

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PhineasC

PhineasC

Posted
Posted

I like the guy, but it is a bit pretentious for an upper class white guy from America to say that all of these Filipinos died because they didn't "heed the warnings" and "make preparations." These are third-world poor living in slums, not rich people in North Carolina or Florida boarding up their summer homes as a storm approaches. These people had nowhere to go and no way out. It is cute that he was able to fly in and fly out and have the experience of his lifetime, but he should keep the commentary on the people suffering and dying all around him to a minimum.

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Ian

Ian

Posted
Posted

I like the guy, but it is a bit pretentious for an upper class white guy from America to say that all of these Filipinos died because they didn't "heed the warnings" and "make preparations." These are third-world poor living in slums, not rich people in North Carolina or Florida boarding up their summer homes as a storm approaches. These people had nowhere to go and no way out. It is cute that he was able to fly in and fly out and have the experience of his lifetime, but he should keep the commentary on the people suffering and dying all around him to a minimum.

 

That's probably a unique area for a decapitating typhoon strike all around.  They get hit by a lot of big typhoons and are probably relatively used to it.  I wonder how hard it was locally to msg that this one was going to be a lot different.  It's happened before to some degree at least.  Apparently no one knows when the town officially started because it was wiped out by a typhoon. 

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mattie g

mattie g

Posted
Posted

I like the guy, but it is a bit pretentious for an upper class white guy from America to say that all of these Filipinos died because they didn't "heed the warnings" and "make preparations." These are third-world poor living in slums, not rich people in North Carolina or Florida boarding up their summer homes as a storm approaches. These people had nowhere to go and no way out. It is cute that he was able to fly in and fly out and have the experience of his lifetime, but he should keep the commentary on the people suffering and dying all around him to a minimum.

Why do you hate white people?

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snowfan

snowfan

Posted
Posted

Storm chasers get called out all the time. Lets not act like this is something new. It's a debate that will continue on and there's no reason why folks shouldn't be able to discuss on this site.....an actual weather forum.

 

Is it fair to say that the data collected via tornado chasers is much more valuable and of better quality than anything hurricane chasers collect?

Guess you will be calling out all storm chasers?

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Ian

Ian

Posted
Posted

Is it fair to say that the data collected via tornado chasers is much more valuable and of better quality than anything hurricane chasers collect?

Not really overall. From big funded chase projects with radars etc sure. Someone like Samaras or TIV and maybe Timmer have probably helped advance the science to some degree though.

Any data is good data. But you aren't going to see forecasts or understandings furthered by it.

I think all chasers should expect criticism. There are plenty who don't understand it. Even among chasers there are very small numbers who have placed themselves near mass casualty events. Most normal people won't get that.

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snowfan

snowfan

Posted
Posted

This really isn't directed at you, but......

 

if you travel half way across the world and get some local pressure readings and video, how valuable is that to 'science'? Am I wrong in thinking that the most gain is the personal gain that will come from providing your video to news outlets? If I am, ok.

Not really overall. From big funded chase projects with radars etc maybe. Someone like Samaras or TIV and maybe Timmer have probably helped advance the science to some degree though.

Any data is good data. But you aren't f

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WxUSAF

WxUSAF

Posted
Posted

Guess you will be calling out all storm chasers?

 

I think there's a BIG difference between chasing twisters in the empty plains of Nebraska and what iCyclone did. 

This really isn't directed at you, but......

 

if you travel half way across the world and get some local pressure readings and video, how valuable is that to 'science'? Am I wrong in thinking that the most gain is the personal gain that will come from providing your video to news outlets? If I am, ok.

I think it's probably really marginal scientifically.  It's probably not useless, but certainly something that is nowhere near valuable enough to be worth risking your life.  And of course, Josh even admits the data is very much secondary. 

 

 

 

Edit...I think it comes down to this for me.  I view it as incredibly disrespectful.  Everyone knew that hundreds or thousands of people were going to DIE VIOLENTLY in Tacloban City.  And they were playing tourist to that spectacle. 

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Ian

Ian

Posted
Posted

I think there's a BIG difference between chasing twisters in the empty plains of Nebraska and what iCyclone did. 

I think it's probably really marginal scientifically.  It's probably not useless, but certainly something that is nowhere near valuable enough to be worth risking your life.  And of course, Josh even admits the data is very much secondary. 

 

Some of the outrage is perhaps misplaced though.  These days especially, their role here isn't much different than a media organization.  In this case I guess there were very few western ones there at least but you can bet the next major bearing down on the US will have every media org that can make it there. 

 

It will be interesting to see if the sport "grows" in the US.  I think even most people who like weather cringe at being wet for days and maybe losing all the securities of life.. so the audience is probably limited.  But there are enough tornado chasers out there who will branch out for the fame aspect that it seems there's a chance for a storm in the future with a lot of people who could end up placing them in a spot that need rescue. 

 

The resources used by the military there to move them in all likelihood were limited in the grand scheme. There may be an argument helicopter transport within the immediate zone took someone else's spot but I doubt they were moving any locals outside that zone overall.   But let's say you have another Katrina with 100 stranded chasers among those locals sitting on their roof waiting for rescue.  That might make an interesting debate.  

 

It is also interesting Edds appears to be content staying there.  I dunno if he's doing anything other than getting footage but he is living the aftermath.

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nwburbschaser

nwburbschaser

Posted
Posted

Some of the outrage is perhaps misplaced though.  These days especially, their role here isn't much different than a media organization.  In this case I guess there were very few western ones there at least but you can bet the next major bearing down on the US will have every media org that can make it there. 

 

It will be interesting to see if the sport "grows" in the US.  I think even most people who like weather cringe at being wet for days and maybe losing all the securities of life.. so the audience is probably limited.  But there are enough tornado chasers out there who will branch out for the fame aspect that it seems there's a chance for a storm in the future with a lot of people who could end up placing them in a spot that need rescue. 

 

The resources used by the military there to move them in all likelihood were limited in the grand scheme. There may be an argument helicopter transport within the immediate zone took someone else's spot but I doubt they were moving any locals outside that zone overall.   But let's say you have another Katrina with 100 stranded chasers among those locals sitting on their roof waiting for rescue.  That might make an interesting debate.  

 

It is also interesting Edds appears to be content staying there.  I dunno if he's doing anything other than getting footage but he is living the aftermath.

 

I think we have already begun to see that happen, and now with some media attention we all know how things can grow.  That's one of the more interesting points brought up with all of this. 

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ravensrule

ravensrule

Posted
Posted

Guess you will be calling out all storm chasers?

 

 

I think there's a BIG difference between chasing twisters in the empty plains of Nebraska and what iCyclone did. 

I think it's probably really marginal scientifically.  It's probably not useless, but certainly something that is nowhere near valuable enough to be worth risking your life.  And of course, Josh even admits the data is very much secondary. 

 

 

 

Edit...I think it comes down to this for me.  I view it as incredibly disrespectful.  Everyone knew that hundreds or thousands of people were going to DIE VIOLENTLY in Tacloban City.  And they were playing tourist to that spectacle. 

 

Ding ding we have a winner.

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Fozz

Fozz

Posted
Posted

 

lol @ thinking Josh did this to become famous. Hurricane/cyclone chasing is one of his biggest passions in life and it's nothing new to him. He's done it dozens of times, often in foreign countries, and risked his life every single time, but this storm just happened to be stronger than any other. He knew the risks he took but if he enjoyed it and helped some people along the way, then who are you to judge him?

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ravensrule

ravensrule

Posted
Posted

lol @ thinking Josh did this to become famous. Hurricane/cyclone chasing is one of his biggest passions in life and it's nothing new to him. He's done it dozens of times, often in foreign countries, and risked his life every single time, but this storm just happened to be stronger than any other. He knew the risks he took but if he enjoyed it and helped some people along the way, then who are you to judge him?

I am not judging him i could give 2 s**ts what he does, i just think it is lunacy to purposely risk your life.

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mappy

mappy

Posted
Posted

There is a very big difference between risking your life specifically to get famous and doing it for the thrill. Josh is the latter and has said as much openly.

I think he is crazy. Never would I do it. But I wholeheartedly believe he doesn't do it just to get some press time because of it.

RR, that was your first comment. He risked his life to become famous, which I don't agree with at all. He risked his life, yes. But being famous wasn't his motive.

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Huffwx

Huffwx

Posted
Posted

I don't agree with the criticisms of Josh. He admits has passion is Cyclons/Canes and CHASING them. Whether Josh was there or not, the destruction would have been there. What if they were not there to help out those people on the first floor? One video I saw ended with Josh carrying an elderly person up stairs. If you follow him on FB and iCyclone FB, he stated they were a bit shocked when it maxed out as strong as it did. 

 

Not knowing how the locals were warned makes it harder, but I'm not even sure the resources were there to do something for those in weaker buildings in low levels. Where would they ALL have gone?

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I-83 BLIZZARD

I-83 BLIZZARD

Posted
Posted

People risk their lives everyday. Police, fire, military, fishermen, industrial workers etc. If you are doing what you love and contributing something positive to others fully understanding the risks involved then my hat goes off to you. He is living his passion, and sometimes the sweetest fruit is out on the limb.

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mappy

mappy

Posted
Posted

I don't agree with the criticisms of Josh. He admits has passion is Cyclons/Canes and CHASING them. Whether Josh was there or not, the destruction would have been there. What if they were not there to help out those people on the first floor? One video I saw ended with Josh carrying an elderly person up stairs. If you follow him on FB and iCyclone FB, he stated they were a bit shocked when it maxed out as strong as it did. 

 

Not knowing how the locals were warned makes it harder, but I'm not even sure the resources were there to do something for those in weaker buildings in low levels. Where would they ALL have gone?

 

I heard that Mark initially turned down medical help because he did not want to use up resources for those who needed it. Josh posted last night (or maybe it was James on Twitter) that if Mark hadn't gotten to Cebu City and got treatment for his leg, it would have not been good. He needs multiple surgeries for two very large areas of damage that cut him to the bone on his leg.

 

I do not think Josh goes chasing for any sort of fame. He goes for the thrill. He collects data, whether it can be used or not, whatever. If he does, great, if not, ok. That is what he does. He hasn't be ashamed to admit it. I respect that he is open about it and knows full well people will disagree.

 

I don't see why people are so up in arms over him being there. Stupid, yes. But three people holed up in a hotel taking some video isn't going to cause that many issues with getting resources to people.

 

I heard on the news this morning there was a shoot out in a local grocery store -- seven killed over looting. I'm glad Josh and them got out when they could, however it happened. I'm glad they are ok, and I hope that they learn from the experience.

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