Ian Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 That part about FB likes might be a little much, Ian. I'm sure you will admit to hoping more people see your chase experiences whether it's from a scientific aspect or people who like visual images My chase interests are entirely self-centered. I want to see cool stuff and hopefully show other people cool stuff (though I don't have my own FB page!). I hope I never have to help anyone. I think honestly that's how most chasers feel. Josh was already a superstar in our eyes but this should elevate him and it has brought him tons of personal notoriety. I'm just looking this as a realist. For the 50th time, no qualms with them chasing other than perhaps what gymengineer mentions just above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chill Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 My thing is chasing the nastiest modeled snowstorms in the MA region. Sometimes I feel guilty watching virtual nasty bowling ball blizzards cripple electronic cities but I can't deny wishing for a worst case scenario on every model run. Luckily they never pan out in the real world so the impacts are only felt in virtual Bob Chill's yard. The real Bob Chill hasn't had to lift a shovel in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchnick Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 My thing is chasing the nastiest modeled snowstorms in the MA region. Sometimes I feel guilty watching virtual nasty bowling ball blizzards cripple electronic cities but I can't deny wishing for a worst case scenario on every model run. Luckily they never pan out in the real world so the impacts are only felt in virtual Bob Chill's yard. The real Bob Chill hasn't had to lift a shovel in years. you must like prog rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxdude64 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I think the what happened in the hotel and the details about their evacuation are smaller issues. To me, this is the fundamental question: "Should you chase in a situation where you know there's a likelihood you're going to require outside assistance to rescue you afterwards?" ^ This...and I chase on occasion myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickinBaltimore Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 you must like prog rock And what's wrong with prog rock? *Puts Dream Theater back on* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 ^ This...and I chase on occasion myself. I think this is an issue for most chasers and perhaps something like 80% of them can't resist the situation presented even if it might be too much. The samples are hugely different from tornado to hurricane.. there are so few legitimate tropical chasers.. tho partly because we have had a quiet period in the US maybe. Plus tropical cyclones have so many failure points you get to a point where it might come down to luck despite best plans. I think it's hard to make a one to one comparison between the two types of chasing. I guess some of the game is cheating death. Or at least for a number of chasers. I still second guess our decision to not chase El Reno every time it comes up... at least part of it was along the lines of not becoming part of the problem though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowfan Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I think this is an issue for most chasers and perhaps something like 80% of them can't resist the situation presented even if it might be too much. The samples are hugely different from tornado to hurricane.. there are so few legitimate tropical chasers.. tho partly because we have had a quiet period in the US maybe. Plus tropical cyclones have so many failure points you get to a point where it might come down to luck despite best plans. I think it's hard to make a one to one comparison between the two types of chasing. I guess some of the game is cheating death. Or at least for a number of chasers. I still second guess our decision to not chase El Reno every time it comes up... at least part of it was along the lines of not becoming part of the problem though. you never one want to become part of the problem, nor do you want to become a casualty. Some of these folks also need to keep in mind that they have families and their families do not deserve to go through life without them because they couldn't resist the urge to chase/document a storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I think the what happened in the hotel and the details about their evacuation are smaller issues. To me, this is the fundamental question: "Should you chase in a situation where you know there's a likelihood you're going to require outside assistance to rescue you afterwards?" Yes this. Mark required medical attention and they were evacuated after putting themselves there intentionally. It's just wrong, IMO. They knew that hundreds or thousands of people were going to die very near them and that the entire situation afterwards would most likely be a calamity. But they put themselves in that situation. For the thrill and excitement of it. It's like playing tourist on a battlefield. Just wrong, IMO. And yes, I think tornado chasing in the CONUS is quite different than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterWxLuvr Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Yes this. Mark required medical attention and they were evacuated after putting themselves there intentionally. It's just wrong, IMO. They knew that hundreds or thousands of people were going to die very near them and that the entire situation afterwards would most likely be a calamity. But they put themselves in that situation. For the thrill and excitement of it. It's like playing tourist on a battlefield. Just wrong, IMO. And yes, I think tornado chasing in the CONUS is quite different than this. Yep, you can, in most cases, run from a tornado. You don't run from a hurricane once you're in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxmeddler Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The feeling that I got in talking to Josh right up until the last spiral band was that; I don't think they quite comprehended the scale in what they we're about to go through. The last call I made with Josh, he seemed a bit frustrated that he couldn't get in the core "safely" but he was still hoping to get in the eye. I think they were honestly surprised about how quickly the situation escalated. The ambiance of relative calm amongst the people before the storm didn't help with the mental preparedness to what would come next either. Combine that with Mark's leg and I think they were just done with the whole mess. We can be armchair chasers all we want, but if you had the chance to take that chopper after all they went through, would you? I would think a very large majority of us would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The feeling that I got in talking to Josh right up until the last spiral band was that; I don't think they quite comprehended the scale in what they we're about to go through. The last call I made with Josh, he seemed a bit frustrated that he couldn't get in the core "safely" but he was still hoping to get in the eye. I think they were honestly surprised about how quickly the situation escalated. The ambiance of relative calm amongst the people before the storm didn't help with the mental preparedness to what would come next either. Combine that with Mark's leg and I think they were just done with the whole mess. We can be armchair chasers all we want, but if you had the chance to take that chopper after all they went through, would you? I would think a very large majority of us would. People are just talking past each other now. In terms of your last paragraph: Of course they would get on that chopper. We all would. "All they went through?" No one is required to chase a Cat 5 in the Philippines south of Luzon. They of course have the right to proceed on such a chase. I just don't get why people are implying it's their right to be spared the consequences of being in the aftermath of a Cat 5. It's a privilege to be evacuated by helicopter, not a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 American: 15 percent more critical thinking than your typical Facebook fan page member. I suspect JT is right about not quite knowing what was coming. However, they probably should have other than the eternal weather person mind that thinks something is going to bust before it gets you. Everyone acts like they're all surprised with how bad it was. I don't get that at all.. perhaps just no knowledge of the region and such. I find it more amusing the same media the ripped storm chasers in the plains are drooling over the hurricane chasers. Granted, there are a lot of d-baggy tornado chasers who deserve way less fame than they get for being bums who spend 4 months driving in circles. I do think chasers should have an internal kill switch. If not they are liable to eventually end up dead if they test fate enough. Maybe cap at cat4s in the middle of impoverished areas? I dunno. If you survive THE STRONGEST STORM OF ALL TIME you are probably bound to test the limit again someday even if it takes a while to get over it. I can't imagine seeing what they saw. The aftermath of Moore 10 days later was almost too much. In all reality, most locals were probably being triaged and dealt with on or near the scene. I think it's probably standard ops to get foreigners out if they know they're there. Do think the conversation gets really mushy when people start talking about chasers advancing science. A few data points from one spot is way better than nothing but it doesn't tell you all that much about the storm. Josh isn't normal (none of us are) but he's not a bad guy for chasing cyclones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Saw two shooting stars tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtstack Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As far as chasing goes, it's like extreme surfing. If weather or surfing is your passion, then some folks feel the experience is worth risking their lives for. Many surfers have died chasing the biggest surf in the world, but it's what they loved, they knew the risks, and who's to judge them for doing what they love. Same with weather chasing. Most of the intelligent chasers are well aware of the risks they are taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As far as chasing goes, it's like extreme surfing. If weather or surfing is your passion, then some folks feel the experience is worth risking their lives for. Many surfers have died chasing the biggest surf in the world, but it's what they loved, they knew the risks, and who's to judge them for doing what they love. Same with weather chasing. Most of the intelligent chasers are well aware of the risks they are taking. Not really. It's probably more like if you knew the 2004 tsunami was coming in advance and you went out just to see it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 People have every right to "chase" storms and other natural disasters in whatever third-world sh*thole they'd like. But don't expect any help or sympathy when things go south, at least from me. Same situation when you hear about a couple of naive white college students who decide to take a hike along the border with Afghanistan or sail around the Horn of Africa. When you get nabbed by the local warlord don't expect rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Do think the conversation gets really mushy when people start talking about chasers advancing science. A few data points from one spot is way better than nothing but it doesn't tell you all that much about the storm. Josh isn't normal (none of us are) but he's not a bad guy for chasing cyclones. The "advancing science" argument doesn't really hold water for me. Risking your life, and possibly the lives of others in the process of rescuing you, for one data point is not worth it. This is very different than what some tornado chasers (like Tim Samaras) were doing. That is publishable science that is truly advancing the knowledge of tornadoes and their forecasting. Getting a pressure trace from a typhoon is interesting, but doesn't improve forecasting or general knowledge. I don't think Josh is a bad guy, but I think this decision is wrong. I see some people in the main thread seemingly justify the decision because they were helping rescue locals. Well, I applaud those actions, but I consider that basic human decency. If someone is screaming in agony next to you, the decent think is to put down your camera and/or Kestrel and help save them. They didn't go there to help the locals. Their $1500/person would have been far better spent, IMO, shipping 5 people from Tacloban to safety before the storm arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldie 22 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Lol...there's some high drama going on in other sub forums...if it ain't gonna snow and it isn't cold...then at least we got the drama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormtracker Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Lol...there's some high drama going on in other sub forums...if it ain't gonna snow and it isn't cold...then at least we got the drama That's how it always is. Lack of weather/snow is like a petri dish for drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldie 22 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 That's how it always is. Lack of weather/snow is like a petri dish for drama. I'm currently enjoying the SNE soaps...but I have the remote in hand and can switch to the Philly one or the OT one or the hurricanejosh one...good stuff...I'm about to start screaming drought to see who bites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Thankfully we have rid ourselves of all our troublesome posters so drama doesn't happen much here anymore when the weather is boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Thankfully we have rid ourselves of all our troublesome posters so drama doesn't happen much here anymore when the weather is boring Our forum is policed pretty well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BxEngine Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Thankfully we have rid ourselves of all our troublesome posters so drama doesn't happen much here anymore when the weather is boring Cuz you suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Thankfully we have rid ourselves of all our troublesome posters so drama doesn't happen much here anymore when the weather is boring Phew, thank goodness we have scrubbed our forum clean and can now enjoy only having to see handful of completely sterilized posts instead of the dozens of bad posts per month we had before. We've achieved our goals, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.J Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Going to use this somewhat warm but windy day to harvest my last batch of herbs to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Lol...there's some high drama going on in other sub forums...if it ain't gonna snow and it isn't cold...then at least we got the drama I just saw that. WTF is going on? Who left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I just saw that. WTF is going on? Who left? Most of the Philly forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Most of the Philly forum I wonder why and also where they went? I assume a new forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Yes, Adam and Tombo created their own Philly forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I heard HM is gone too? Or mostly? I don't know who is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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