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November 2013 pattern and discussion


WxJordan

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It snowed here, in Central FL, and Thunder snow in Charleston in November 2006, I'm pretty sure it can snow in NC if the setup allows it. Doesn't really matter if it's the 4th of July or Christmas.

Remember there was a big snow and freeze in your area in late Nov., 1864, and lightening does strike in the same place twice.  Of course, for that to happen you'd need rain.  Have you had much lately?  Didn't think so :)  So timing might be an issue, with cold chasing a dry FroPa :)  Now if we get the gom low, all bets are off.  Goofy's been wanting to pull that in starting 10 days back, or so, but Bob won't let me be even the slightest bit interested in something way out there in GoofyLand, even though it looked so good, lol.  T

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If the 12z ECMWF phased a little later, this would allow the energy to dig further southeast which would put more of central NC in the game. Still a long way to go, and we'll probably see all sorts of wild swings in modeling before this is over. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see RDU get buried in one of these ECMWF runs before long, only to probably see it go away and then who knows...the timing of the phase is so crucial to how this plays out it will likely continue to change until 24-48 hours out.

 

Thats a very good point. It is going to be interesting to watch this evolve over the next 100+ hours. While not impossible to have snow in Nov the Euro is way to eager in the phase imo.  I think the less amplified later phasing of GFS runs are more realistic.

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If the 12z ECMWF phased a little later, this would allow the energy to dig further southeast which would put more of central NC in the game. Still a long way to go, and we'll probably see all sorts of wild swings in modeling before this is over. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see RDU get buried in one of these ECMWF runs before long, only to probably see it go away and then who knows...the timing of the phase is so crucial to how this plays out it will likely continue to change until 24-48 hours out.

 

Probably going to be a lot of back and forth between now and next Wednsday/Thursday. At least we know the potential is there.

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Probably going to be a lot of back and forth between now and next Wednsday/Thursday. At least we know the potential is there.

Bingo! At this point, we should be pondering potential, rather than getting bent out of shape about 30-mile shifts in the freezing line. Lonnnng way to go with this one, and (hopefully) many more behind it this winter.

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From Raleigh...sounds like a sound approach...

 

 

TUESDAY THROUGH THURSDAY:
FORECAST UNCERTAINTY REMAINS LARGE IN THIS PERIOD...WITH MAJOR
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS MODELS ON THE EVOLUTION OF A
POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT STORM SYSTEM OVER THE MID-ATLANTIC REGION
MID NEXT WEEK. DESPITE THE AFOREMENTIONED DISAGREEMENT...LONG RANGE
MODEL GUIDANCE DOES AGREE THAT AN AIRMASS OF ARCTIC ORIGIN (~1045 MB
HIGH) WILL PLUNGE SOUTH FROM CANADA INTO THE CENTRAL CONUS EARLY
NEXT WEEK...BUILDING EAST TO THE MID-ATLANTIC COAST BY THE MIDDLE OF
NEXT WEEK AS AN AMPLIFYING UPPER LEVEL TROUGH DIGS SOUTHEAST TOWARD
THE AREA. WITH THIS IN MIND...EXPECT SLIGHTLY BELOW NORMAL TEMPS AND
INCREASING CLOUD COVER ON TUE...WITH BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES AND
INCREASED CLOUD COVER ON WED/THU. PRECIP CHANCES ARE DIFFICULT TO
ASCERTAIN GIVEN SUCH LARGE DIFFERENCES IN THE EVOLUTION OF THE
AFOREMENTIONED STORM SYSTEM AMONG MODEL GUIDANCE...NOT TO MENTION
THE RANGE (DAY 6-7) IN THE FORECAST. AT THIS TIME...SUFFICIENT
CONSISTENCY (MODEL-TO-MODEL AND RUN-TO-RUN) EXISTS TO JUSTIFY THE
INCLUSION OF A 30% CHANCE OF PRECIPITATION IN THE DAY 6-7 PERIOD
(~WED). PRECIP CHANCES/AMOUNTS/TIMING (PERHAPS TYPE) WILL HIGHLY
DEPEND ON THE PRECISE EVOLUTION OF THE AFOREMENTIONED SYSTEM NEXT
WEEK...A SYSTEM THAT HAS YET TO EVOLVE. AS A RESULT...IT WOULD BE
UNWISE TO ACCEPT ANY SINGLE MODEL SOLUTION AT THIS RANGE. -VINCENT

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From Raleigh...sounds like a sound approach...

 

 

TUESDAY THROUGH THURSDAY:

FORECAST UNCERTAINTY REMAINS LARGE IN THIS PERIOD...WITH MAJOR

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS MODELS ON THE EVOLUTION OF A

POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT STORM SYSTEM OVER THE MID-ATLANTIC REGION

MID NEXT WEEK. DESPITE THE AFOREMENTIONED DISAGREEMENT...LONG RANGE

MODEL GUIDANCE DOES AGREE THAT AN AIRMASS OF ARCTIC ORIGIN (~1045 MB

HIGH) WILL PLUNGE SOUTH FROM CANADA INTO THE CENTRAL CONUS EARLY

NEXT WEEK...BUILDING EAST TO THE MID-ATLANTIC COAST BY THE MIDDLE OF

NEXT WEEK AS AN AMPLIFYING UPPER LEVEL TROUGH DIGS SOUTHEAST TOWARD

THE AREA. WITH THIS IN MIND...EXPECT SLIGHTLY BELOW NORMAL TEMPS AND

INCREASING CLOUD COVER ON TUE...WITH BELOW NORMAL TEMPERATURES AND

INCREASED CLOUD COVER ON WED/THU. PRECIP CHANCES ARE DIFFICULT TO

ASCERTAIN GIVEN SUCH LARGE DIFFERENCES IN THE EVOLUTION OF THE

AFOREMENTIONED STORM SYSTEM AMONG MODEL GUIDANCE...NOT TO MENTION

THE RANGE (DAY 6-7) IN THE FORECAST. AT THIS TIME...SUFFICIENT

CONSISTENCY (MODEL-TO-MODEL AND RUN-TO-RUN) EXISTS TO JUSTIFY THE

INCLUSION OF A 30% CHANCE OF PRECIPITATION IN THE DAY 6-7 PERIOD

(~WED). PRECIP CHANCES/AMOUNTS/TIMING (PERHAPS TYPE) WILL HIGHLY

DEPEND ON THE PRECISE EVOLUTION OF THE AFOREMENTIONED SYSTEM NEXT

WEEK...A SYSTEM THAT HAS YET TO EVOLVE. AS A RESULT...IT WOULD BE

UNWISE TO ACCEPT ANY SINGLE MODEL SOLUTION AT THIS RANGE. -VINCENT

 

True, but the combo of the Euro and GFS right now looks pretty good.

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Wow check it out from NWS in GSP..  and 13 news was just talking about the potential of the first snow storm of the season next Wednesday .  :snowing:    :lmao:

 

PARSING THE VARIOUS THERMODYNAMIC SIGNALS FROM THE MODEL GUIDANCE
CREATES QUITE THE INTERESTING CONUNDRUM...AS ALL THE MODELS SEEM TO
AGREE ON ONE THING...INTENSE COLD ADVECTION/ARCTIC AIR WILL
ACCOMPANY THE APPROACH OF THE UPPER TROUGH. THIS SIGNALS THE
POTENTIAL FOR P-TYPE ISSUES ACROSS MUCH OF THE WESTERN CAROLINAS/
NORTHEAST GEORGIA AT SOME POINT DURING MID-TO-LATE WEEK. AS RAPID
COOLING OF THE ENTIRE ATMOSPHERIC COLUMN WOULD BE EXPECTED IN THIS
SCENARIO...ONE WOULD PRIMARILY EXPECT A RAIN VS SNOW ISSUE. THIS
APPEARS TO BE A CLASSIC COLD AIR VS. FORCING FOR UVV RACE...A RACE
THAT THE COLD AIR TYPICALLY LOSES ACROSS THE LOWER ELEVATIONS OF OUR
REGION. IT IS JUST VERY UNUSUAL FOR THE PIEDMONT/FOOTHILLS TO SEE
ANY MORE THAN A BRIEF PERIOD OF WINTRY WEATHER WHEN THE COLD AIR IS
NOT ALREADY IN PLACE PRIOR TO THE ARRIVAL OF UVV. THEREFORE...PTYPE
WILL BE ADVERTISED WITH A STRONG NOD TOWARD CLIMO...WITH -SN OR
-RA/-SN IN THE MTNS...-RA/-SN ALONG PORTIONS OF THE I-40 CORRIDOR
EAST OF THE MTNS...AND ALL -RA ELSEWHERE. HAVING SAID THAT...THIS
DOES HAVE THE APPEARANCE OF A POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT/SYNOPTICALLY
ENHANCED NW FLOW SNOW EVENT FOR THE NC MTNS. NEEDLESS TO SAY...THIS
IS A SITUATION THAT WILL REQUIRE CAREFUL MONITORING OVER THE NEXT
COUPLE OF DAYS.

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GFS isn't as tall/sharp with the ridge behind the trough.  12z Euro rolled that ridge over and sent the shortwave farther south.  Most modeling (op / ensemble members) favors more of the GFS solution as of now.

Todays GFS have trended more progressive with each run. Maybe tomorrow they go the other way, it can't get worse than the 18z run.

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Wow check it out from NWS in GSP..  and 13 news was just talking about the potential of the first snow storm of the season next Wednesday .  :snowing:    :lmao:

 

PARSING THE VARIOUS THERMODYNAMIC SIGNALS FROM THE MODEL GUIDANCE

CREATES QUITE THE INTERESTING CONUNDRUM...AS ALL THE MODELS SEEM TO

AGREE ON ONE THING...INTENSE COLD ADVECTION/ARCTIC AIR WILL

ACCOMPANY THE APPROACH OF THE UPPER TROUGH. THIS SIGNALS THE

POTENTIAL FOR P-TYPE ISSUES ACROSS MUCH OF THE WESTERN CAROLINAS/

NORTHEAST GEORGIA AT SOME POINT DURING MID-TO-LATE WEEK. AS RAPID

COOLING OF THE ENTIRE ATMOSPHERIC COLUMN WOULD BE EXPECTED IN THIS

SCENARIO...ONE WOULD PRIMARILY EXPECT A RAIN VS SNOW ISSUE. THIS

APPEARS TO BE A CLASSIC COLD AIR VS. FORCING FOR UVV RACE...A RACE

THAT THE COLD AIR TYPICALLY LOSES ACROSS THE LOWER ELEVATIONS OF OUR

REGION. IT IS JUST VERY UNUSUAL FOR THE PIEDMONT/FOOTHILLS TO SEE

ANY MORE THAN A BRIEF PERIOD OF WINTRY WEATHER WHEN THE COLD AIR IS

NOT ALREADY IN PLACE PRIOR TO THE ARRIVAL OF UVV. THEREFORE...PTYPE

WILL BE ADVERTISED WITH A STRONG NOD TOWARD CLIMO...WITH -SN OR

-RA/-SN IN THE MTNS...-RA/-SN ALONG PORTIONS OF THE I-40 CORRIDOR

EAST OF THE MTNS...AND ALL -RA ELSEWHERE. HAVING SAID THAT...THIS

DOES HAVE THE APPEARANCE OF A POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT/SYNOPTICALLY

ENHANCED NW FLOW SNOW EVENT FOR THE NC MTNS. NEEDLESS TO SAY...THIS

IS A SITUATION THAT WILL REQUIRE CAREFUL MONITORING OVER THE NEXT

COUPLE OF DAYS.

 

That's a great summation I believe.  Mountain event, and token flakes elsewhere. 

 

Timing events with northern stream energy you just can't rely on in the piedmont on NC IMO.  Cold air needs to be in place and moisture needs to hit it.  Really nice we're getting a consistent fantasy storm in November though.  Couldn't buy a real fantasy storm at all really (other than a single model run here and there) the last two years. 

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Sure it can.. it can bring that the big SE ridge idea from a few days back. :sun:

Lets just hope the Euro stays on board. Remember with hurricane Sandy the Euro stayed consistent and the GFS kept going out to sea. Also the GFS has pissed us off almost all hurricane especially with Karen. Maybe this is another one of those times. We'll see if the Euro stills shows it. If not, Next!!!
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