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November 2013 pattern and discussion


WxJordan

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A couple days ago I posted this top row of images, showing European Model in its day 7-10 outlook. I was a little nervous about what could happen in the East, because the Aleutian Ridge was so far west, that would possibly leave enough room for an amplifying cold lobe to drop in from Canada. So I put a "?" in the East around that time frame. Now the models are all dropping a huge lobe of very cold air, and upper energy, and creating a big MidAtlantic and East Coast snowstorm middle of next week. There's til plenty of time to watch this evolve and see exactly who gets hit, and with what type of Precip. Full extensive update at www.wxsouth.com for monthly subscribers. I cover this, the makings of big Positive Tilt Troughs, Big Surface High Pressures and how this year compares with a (non-existent Arctic High) last year, and much more. Join up for interesting synoptic weather discussions and trends...should be a very exciting Winter coming up.

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This pattern would be an odd one to produce a wintry event especially outside the normal climo time with a very +AO/+NAO. The s/w of note looks to move into Alaska tomorrow, so we should see a bit more stability in the modeling solutions, I would think in 24-48 hours.

 

With the setup not ideal synoptically (we depend a lot on timing) and this being mid November, the odds are heavily against something. Keep in mind this is still 6 days out so we have plenty of time for wild model swings.

 

However, the fact tha the op GFS and ECMWF and a fair number of their ens members show it, does raise the alert a bit.

 

It is fun to see and worth following, but dont get too excited yet.

I certainly echo these sentiments. The current solution from the GFS/ECMWF entails phasing of two pieces of upper level energy that won't enter the RAOB network for ~5 days. I wouldn't be surprised to see some pretty significant model swings right on up to 24-48 hours before the "event" begins. It's quite possible model solutions in a couple days show a much less amplified solution with just a dry, albeit quite cold, fropa. 

 

Nonetheless, it's exciting to already have something to watch and it almost feels like a nonething-to-lose prospect this early.

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12Z solutions will be north and west.  Book it.

 

The one thing I like so far that is real, is that the warm-ups keep getting pushed back or replaced by patterns that produce normal or below normal temps.  The first warm-up was seen in late October to commence in early November.  Then, around of the first of the month, it was supposed to warm up around mid-month.  Now, it looks like that is off.  Maybe late November/early December now?  Anyway, no torches yet.

 

Aleution ridging has been pretty persistent of late.  The GOA vortex this year hasn't been a stationary feature either.  It seems to form and migrate to the SW.  That keeps repeating in the modeling.  Anyway, it certainly looks like a different pattern than the last couple of years.

 

N/W would be great, better than a dry cold front pushing through, atleast something to follow.  When was the last time both the Euro/GFS had a storm like this modeled 6-7 days that didn't materialize atleast something for somebody (knock on wood).

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N/W would be great, better than a dry cold front pushing through, atleast something to follow.  When was the last time both the Euro/GFS had a storm like this modeled 6-7 days that didn't materialize atleast something for somebody (knock on wood).

I know it. It's a little wound up for a fast flow, but we'll see. Hopefully, we can at least get a little rain out of it.

Tony, just for you, shields are down. :)

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Are we actually talking about a snowstorm in NOVEMBER?? Goes to show that anything can happen in a NC winter. Models are locking on to a storm with GFS and ECMWF showing similar system now...

if it can snow in March or April in nc, why not November ? November is colder than either of those months. We're only 6 weeks from the winter solstice.
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Someone should go ahead and kill the storm possibility by creating a thread for it. It's too early for me to get emotionally invested.

On topic, it's been mentioned, but I am loving seeing the high pressures in Canada.

With so many calling for warmth and a lack of snow this year, I REALLY hope Robert nails it and many of us have a banner snow year!

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Youngsville, NC sounding at hour 138.

I assume this is from your model page.  Anyway to see omega in there or have it as another graphic side by side with the sounding?...just throwing out a customer request anyway...lol.  I guess that's where bufkit comes in handy, although the bufkit graphics seem a bit wonky to me - Atari-ish, 1980's.  I haven't downloaded it, yet.

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I know it. It's a little wound up for a fast flow, but we'll see. Hopefully, we can at least get a little rain out of it.

Tony, just for you, shields are down. :)

Thanks, CR!  You guys can have the early snow, if I could just get a gom low coming over top of me!   I just checked the gauge and I guess you could describe what was in there as ant tears, or maybe just one ant tear.  The sun is out so that tear just when poof into the sky, leaving a heaping helping of dry, for the next round of cold.  T

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I assume this is from your model page.  Anyway to see omega in there or have it as another graphic side by side with the sounding?...just throwing out a customer request anyway...lol.  I guess that's where bufkit comes in handy, although the bufkit graphics seem a bit wonky to me - Atari-ish, 1980's.  I haven't downloaded it, yet.

 

Yep lots of good stuff on there. WE are in the process of adding an intereactive vertical cross section tool as well. I think one of my scripts will have omega in it for that, that will allow you to visualize it well.

 

I dont have omega on the soundings, but of course you can see it on the plan view.

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Yawn....(comes out of non-winter weather season hibernation)

 

Oh look, fantasy storm already...Great!!

 

In regard to next week's weather, where is the energy coming from?  Upper level energy heading off the coast then developing into a system?  I hate those and they never seem to work out for anybody west of 77.  My attention is going to be looking for storms coming along the STJ.  That seems to be where the money is and what we've been lacking the last two years.  Anything else and it's hoping for perfect timing, which never ends up....perfect. 

 

Good to see cold early on though.  Anything between now and January 1 is bonus. 

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Anything is possible weather wise.... but I sure hope the models is not busting our chops. This would be one heck of a way to start the season. Now that is close to 5 days out should we take it and run with it?

 

I am.  My area.  Light rain with cold chasing.

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I am here Brick. Always will be for interesting weather in our region.

 

Obviously climo argues very strongly against any type of widespread significant wintry weather in mid-November for NC. Greatest snowfall for RDU on record in November is 3.6 incehs on Nov 20th 1914.

 

We did get 2.2 inches of snow on Nov 19th, 2000. And we had measurable snow of 0.4 inches on Nov 21st 2008.

 

It is certainly rare.

 

This pattern would be an odd one to produce a wintry event especially outside the normal climo time with a very +AO/+NAO. The s/w of note looks to move into Alaska tomorrow, so we should see a bit more stability in the modeling solutions, I would think in 24-48 hours.

 

With the setup not ideal synoptically (we depend a lot on timing) and this being mid November, the odds are heavily against something. Keep in mind this is still 6 days out so we have plenty of time for wild model swings.

 

However, the fact tha the op GFS and ECMWF and a fair number of their ens members show it, does raise the alert a bit.

 

It is fun to see and worth following, but dont get too excited yet.

 

 

Thats the other storm I was thinking about yesterday.

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Continuity is what I am looking for 5-6 days out, sure that will be run to run changes, with the overall theme still indicating a possibility. NW NC - Interior VA would be favored, anything outside of those areas would be a bonus type deal this early. Measurable type, even tokens, are almost of unheard in mid November, I remember 2008, we had afternoon snow showers twice in one week, around the 20th of Nov. I would be thrilled with an advisory type of event further inland, patience though, at least we finally have something to track - been awhile!

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