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November 2013 pattern and discussion


WxJordan

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Seen lots of discussion about this winter and overall there again is much disagreement on what's going to happen (warm/cold).  Frankly I don't put much stock in long range forecasts as I just personally have never seen too many work out consistently (maybe I'm not looking hard enough).  Hurricane forecasts are just a joke, IMO.

 

With that said, the MA forum is discussing the pacific tempatures and how the November temps have a solid correlation to December cold.  If I read it right, it seems like the warming pacific currently shown favors more cold in the US for December.  At the link, "HM" provides interesting graphics showing the November/December correlation.  This stands out to me because Robert has been harping on this for a while too, that that is a key change and difference this year than previous years.  The Pacific is warming in the right spot, not cooling like previous years.  With everything else the same, the biggest ingredient to a possibly better overall winter may be that factor, and it has me somewhat optimistic.  Having the +NAO/AO hasn't stopped record cold from paying us a visit in the south.  That's impressive to me. 

 

I still have many questions about seeing a STJ and getting storms to stay south to actually get snow, but I think the cold may get here a little easier this year.  That's my hope anyway.  So far, so good. 

 

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/41684-2013-2014-capital-weather-gang-winter-outlook/page-2

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HM posted these images in the Mid-Atl subforum. He plotted November SST anomalies compared to 1981-2010 climo and then plotted the temps in the following Decembers. 

 

 

There are a few things to watch  out for over the next few weeks:

 

1. Warm pool evolution between 30-50°N and 180-140°W in the North Pacific. Out of the 20 or so neutral years since 1950, there hasn't been many with this feature as pronounced as 2013. The best matches are 1989, 1985 and 1961. Very close, and certainly worthy of any analog set, are 2001 and 1990, which were displaced west of this year's pool (and subsequently more cooling near North America) and 1996 which was displaced east. These are the only 6! They all were significantly correlated to December's warm surface temperature anomalies in Pacific and Arctic Cold coming down into N. America. Not only that but the warm / cool areas were displaced with the warm pool (1990/2001 is shifted west). Will the warm pool this November remain as strong as it is now or will it waffle back SW?

 

2. Of the 20 neutral Decembers, only 4 had a positive AO. Of the 16 that were slightly negative to strongly negative, 7 had a positive November AO. As Matt already suggested, this wasn't the make-or-break deal in December for the Mid Atlantic. The Pacific was more important.

 

3. The MJO. Years that took on a more "El Nino-like" appearance across the CONUS generally had the MJO arrive sooner and affect more of the month. The years that had the typical RNA-La Nina style look basically had a much later arriving MJO (usually arriving late-month). There were really only 3 "blowtorch" Decembers for the CONUS (1959, 2001, 2012), all-of-which for different reasons.

 

It is quite possible December could be significantly colder than normal for much of the CONUS, should the La Nina-QBO-N PAC warm pool dominate the flow. Our area will likely modify with SE-ridge effects; but, overall, plenty of cold. This is even true should the AO remain positive.

 

If the forcing comes along and ruins this relationship, adding its El Nino-like influence, it would cause a hybrid type of circulation with many scenarios.

 

 

Pretty interesting correlation, I compiled all of them in photoshop into one image for an easier comparision. The top maps are SST anoms. bottom maps are december temps.

post-710-0-16380200-1384376705_thumb.jpg

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We had our popular thread on guessing the first day with high's in the 50's in October. We didn't have a thread for the 40's, but now that many of us have had a day with highs in the 40's, is anyone interested in guessing the first day with high's in the 30s?

next weds/thurs with the next cold blast, gfs and euro are absolutely frigid.

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Interesting how the cold air is stronger, and the warmups have been falsely modeled for so long now, especially where Southeast is concerned. We've had almost every month below normal in the Temps department since last Feburary, with maybe exception of September.
Looking ahead, the SST anomalies continue to trend closer to a NINO than not. Pacific continues warming, not cooling (vast difference from previous two years). With already two strong negative NAO periods this Fall under our belt, as we get deeper into the Winter season the effects of the Neg. NAO, Neg. AO return again (and already it's about to head that way---Hello Blocking!) then I can see the first Widespread Winter Storm in the Eastern, possibly part of the Southeast to MidAtlantic region as well. The cold air is widely available this time, and was a key missing ingredient in the nonstop roast-fest of 2011 and 2012. Tide has definitely been turning the last 9 months.
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I think you may be right, Southern. The cold may be transient, but it sure is impressive.

 

Indeed. The strength of these high pressure systems have been impressive to say the least.  The cold air is beating expectations while the warm ups are brief and tame, and mostly while the AO has held solidly + since mid October.

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Mike Masco @MascoFromABC2 6m

European ensembles confirm my idea.. HARSH blast will LOCK in. This isn't a two day deal! Time frame:Next week/beyond pic.twitter.com/7Qslmcobbp

Not really sure about anything locking in but the GFS is advertising another very cold shot next week that could be colder than what we are seeing currently. Very impressive for the way the teleconnections look right know.

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Those actually will be lows for that day. That is the 6 hour minimum map, NOT the 18z temps. Those are a quite a bit warmer than that map shows.

 

 I realize they are lows since they are lows for the 12Z-18Z period. That's why I said they are similar to the lows of the current airmass. Yeah, the actual 18Z (1 PM EST) or max for the 12-18Z period) would probably be just a little under the highs.

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I realize they are lows since they are lows for the 12Z-18Z period. That's why I said they are similar to the lows of the current airmass. Yeah, the actual 18Z (1 PM EST) or max for the 12-18Z period) would probably be just a little under the highs.

OK I misunderstood you then, my mistake.
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Early December would be great for a cold pattern to establish itself across the east. (at that point) Many of us in the SE are far enough into the season to be able to get a significant winter storm. A cold pattern earlier than that (like now) is nice but usually does not provide what most here are looking for.

 

Outside of mountains - Prime time to look/hope for winter storms is from early December to early March.  

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