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Canadian debate on climate change


Ottawa Blizzard

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The poll question under the article is poorly written and as such one shouldn't take the results too seriously. "Be it resolved that climate change is caused by humans: Agree or Disagree" makes it out to be an all or nothing affair when the real world scenario is a combination of human + natural forcing. Any person, especially a Canuck, with an elementary science education knows there was an ice age and if they were paying close attention would know there were multiple ice ages. Perhaps a better way to state the poll question is "Be it resolved that (recent) climate change is mostly caused by humans".

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Or maybe they are beginning to realize the facts.

What facts are those? That permafrost is melting and they consistently have above average winters even when compared to the last 30 years, the warmest climate block on record? That sea ice melts earlier and freezes later? Or is it the disappearing glaciers in the Canadian west and Arctic?

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Or maybe they are beginning to realize the facts.

What facts are those? That permafrost is melting and they consistently have above average winters even when compared to the last 30 years, the warmest climate block on record? That sea ice melts earlier and freezes later? Or is it the disappearing glaciers in the Canadian west and Arctic?

Where exactly is this? Surely you aren't talking about Toronto....

Canadians don't follow the arctic anymore than we do, its been relatively benign until 2007. Not many people form their opinion based on PIOMAS.

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I think its natural factors and im american.  We go threw cycles and I believe this is just one of them. Maybe we start to cool soon maybe we dont I guess we will have to wait and see. 

If a Canadian is denying climate change caused by humans.

 

They are just ignorant of their own history on so many weather and climate fronts.

 

 

It's really sad.

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I think its natural factors and im american.  We go threw cycles and I believe this is just one of them. Maybe we start to cool soon maybe we dont I guess we will have to wait and see. 

 

So you deny the fact that CO2 is a greenhoues gas, that this is basic science established in laboratories over a century ago, and that not only the climate of earth but the climate of other planets is both dependent and predictable based on the concentration of these greenhouse gases?

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So you deny the fact that CO2 is a greenhoues gas, that this is basic science established in laboratories over a century ago, and that not only the climate of earth but the climate of other planets is both dependent and predictable based on the concentration of these greenhouse gases?

 

The most widely used example of a planet is Mars, that planet is 96% CO2.....

 

Global warming being initiated by co2 has never happened before.... You act like this is so simple. 

 

NO experiment in a lab can replicate this planet.

 

NONE.

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The most widely used example of a planet is Mars, that planet is 96% CO2.....

Global warming being initiated by co2 has never happened before.... You act like this is so simple.

NO experiment in a lab can replicate this planet.

NONE.

Mars has a much much thinner atmosphere than Earth, so I don't think that comparison is valid.

Agreed with the complexity of the climate system though.

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The idea that because the atmosphere is complex it is not possible to know the strength of CO2 as a greenhouse gas is a basic logical fallacy.

 

A doubling of CO2 concentration causes 3.7W/m2 of radiative forcing. This value has been known for many decades. At equilibrium, the surface temperature of the earth must be 1.2C warmer. Nobody said the atmosphere is simple. 

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Where exactly is this? Surely you aren't talking about Toronto.... Canadians don't follow the arctic anymore than we do, its been relatively benign until 2007. Not many people form their opinion based on PIOMAS.

 

Where is this? In Canada. Canada consists of much more than just the area right along the US border. If Torontoans don't care about what's happening in their own country it doesn't matter. The facts stand whether people care or not.

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If a Canadian is denying climate change caused by humans.

 

They are just ignorant of their own history on so many weather and climate fronts.

 

 

It's really sad.

No maybe you're just ignorant on believing that humans are the cause of Global warming and you don't want to look at the facts that support Natural climate change

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Where exactly is this? Surely you aren't talking about Toronto.... Canadians don't follow the arctic anymore than we do, its been relatively benign until 2007. Not many people form their opinion based on PIOMAS.

 

Where is this? In Canada. Canada consists of much more than just the area right along the US border. If Torontoans don't care about what's happening in their own country it doesn't matter. The facts stand whether people care or not.

Any polling done on the citizens will come mostly from Ontario, where there has been little warming. The arctic is where most of the change has taken place, just because Canada has arctic territory, doesn't mean people live there and care anymore about it than we do. I would suspect Canadian and American opinion to be very similar.

Those same people have to take the opinions of scientists who have consistently made poor forecasts of future warming scenarios. Coming in under the lowest least warming scenario doesn't help build faith in predictions.

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So you deny the fact that CO2 is a greenhoues gas, that this is basic science established in laboratories over a century ago, and that not only the climate of earth but the climate of other planets is both dependent and predictable based on the concentration of these greenhouse gases?

 

No one has to deny the radiative properties of CO2 in order to claim that a chunk of the warming was naturally induced. We know for sure that CO2, and other known anthropogenic forcings are not enough to explain the early-20th Century Warming. Even the late-20th Century warming may have a natural component to it.

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No one has to deny the radiative properties of CO2 in order to claim that a chunk of the warming was naturally induced. We know for sure that CO2, and other known anthropogenic forcings are not enough to explain the early-20th Century Warming. Even the late-20th Century warming may have a natural component to it.

 

Nice strawman. I did not say there was no natural component. I was responding to somebody claiming the warming is "just a cycle" which is false.

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I was responding to somebody claiming the warming is "just a cycle" which is false.

 

The warming is definitely at least partially cyclic.. but has an anthropogenic component to the warming as well. The question is how much of this warming is anthropogenic?

 

It's likely that a significant fraction is natural.. and a significant fraction is anthropogenic.. and this is supported by peer reviewed science.

 

http://pages-142.unibe.ch/products/books/qsr2000-papers/beer.pdf

 

http://www.paperscloud.com/GridWeb/resources/download/27.pdf

 

http://www.rengy.org/uploadfile/file/%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%89%88/%E8%B5%84%E6%BA%90/%E6%96%87%E7%8C%AE/2000/Response%20of%20climate%20to%20solar%20forcing%20recorded%20in%20a%206000-year%20time-series%20of%20Chinese%20peat%20cellulose%20%20.pdf

 

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/223789003_Globally_synchronous_climate_change_2800_years_ago_Proxy_data_from_peat_in_South_America/file/79e415107d07ae60f7.pdf

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The warming is definitely at least partially cyclic.. but has an anthropogenic component to the warming as well. The question is how much of this warming is anthropogenic?

It's likely that a significant fraction is natural.. and a significant fraction is anthropogenic.. and this is supported by peer reviewed science.

http://pages-142.unibe.ch/products/books/qsr2000-papers/beer.pdf

http://www.paperscloud.com/GridWeb/resources/download/27.pdf

http://www.rengy.org/uploadfile/file/%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%89%88/%E8%B5%84%E6%BA%90/%E6%96%87%E7%8C%AE/2000/Response%20of%20climate%20to%20solar%20forcing%20recorded%20in%20a%206000-year%20time-series%20of%20Chinese%20peat%20cellulose%20%20.pdf

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/223789003_Globally_synchronous_climate_change_2800_years_ago_Proxy_data_from_peat_in_South_America/file/79e415107d07ae60f7.pdf

Doesn't the IPCC suggest -0.1 to 0.1 degrees is associated with internal variation?

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No maybe you're just ignorant on believing that humans are the cause of Global warming and you don't want to look at the facts that support Natural climate change

 

Those silly scientists and their science. When will they learn? 

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