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Heck of a trof getting carved out on the west coast. 50/50 can hold in place as that comes east...

well as the curse of 2010 reaches 294 days without measurable snow in boston.....(less then an hour from now) .....like clockwork ....this should be a GL cutter or a HV cutter. then cold and dry for another ten days prior to the likely mild period from mid january into feb. One day it will snow and plows will be put to work.

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A couple of comments here:

First, regarding the midweek system:

I don't think this storm has any chance at all east of the mtns now that the coastal is much weaker and further East.

Second, the Christmas storm:

This MAY be the type of storm that could bring good snow/ice to a wide area in THIS pattern, because it's an overrunning type system moving W to E.

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Ok...at least we have something to track, even though this is probably dead before it even gets started :axe:

That West to east runner looks fantastic, but a hair too far north for those of us in Central VA by 174. The placement of the 0 at 10m and 850 relative to the surface low really surprised me. Based on the surface low, I'd have expected Central VA to go over to rain much quicker than we do.

Even verbatim my location (15 miles WNW of the city center) is probably quite close to all snow, especially if the precipitation rates were moderate to heavy and could help cool the column.

Definitely worth keeping an eye on as this time frame has indicated an event of interest for several runs in a row.

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A couple of comments here:

First, regarding the midweek system:

I don't think this storm has any chance at all east of the mtns now that the coastal is much weaker and further East.

Second, the Christmas storm:

This MAY be the type of storm that could bring good snow/ice to a wide area in THIS pattern, because it's an overrunning type system moving W to E.

I think this helps cause other wise the clipper would have just got crushed.

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100% Wrong! Most of the moisture the Clipper was going to have to work with came from the old storm retrograding back... since that old storm is NOT There, and 3X weaker, that energy is NOT there.

How is the clipper working off moisture from that storm? Its the confluence off that storm that rips apart our clipper once it gets east of the apps.....not one model run have i seen had this tag team effect you have been explaining....i really feel he is 100% right...many others have said the same thing.....If we want the clipper east of the apps, we need that strom weak and way ots

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How is the clipper working off moisture from that storm? Its the confluence off that storm that rips apart our clipper once it gets east of the apps.....not one model run have i seen had this tag team effect you have been explaining....i really feel he is 100% right...many others have said the same thing.....If we want the clipper east of the apps, we need that strom weak and way ots

I thought this too but, who knows.

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How is the clipper working off moisture from that storm? Its the confluence off that storm that rips apart our clipper once it gets east of the apps.....not one model run have i seen had this tag team effect you have been explaining....i really feel he is 100% right...many others have said the same thing.....If we want the clipper east of the apps, we need that strom weak and way ots

The moisture that the old storm was going to bring into the clipper, because it was supposed to be retrograding. Also, the old storm up North would have provided NE winds to lower the temps on Wed. Without NE winds, we'll get to 40 degrees.

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100% Wrong! Most of the moisture the Clipper was going to have to work with came from the old storm retrograding back... since that old storm is NOT There, and 3X weaker, that energy is NOT there.

Strongly disagree, clipper is crushed under the strong NLY confluence via the H5 vortex of this weekend's system. Take a look at how the QPF output goes from about 0.5" in the Plains/Mid-west to essentially nothing upon reaching the east coast. If that vortex was displaced a bit further NE, we'd see a light snow accumulation at the very least. The retrograding low wouldn't give us anything, strong N/NNWLY downsloping winds 500 miles SW of the center of a low isn't going to do much good for us. Maybe if you're in Maine, but sadly we don't live up there. This weekend's non-event will in effect screw us out of another snow chance mid week IF it remains too close to New England. Too much of a vortex is a bad thing.

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Strongly disagree, clipper is crushed under the strong NYL confluence via the H5 vortex of this weekend's system. Take a look at how the QPF output goes from about 0.5" in the Plains/Mid-west to essentially nothing upon reaching the east coast. If that vortex was displaced a bit further NE, we'd see a light snow accumulation at the very least. The retrograding low wouldn't give us anything, strong N/NNWLY downsloping winds 500 miles SW of the center of a low isn't going to do much good for us. Maybe if you're in Maine, but sadly we don't live up there. This weekend's non-event will in effect screw us out of another snow chance mid week IF it remains too close to New England. Too much of a vortex is a bad thing.

Yes, NOW it is, because the storm is in the wrong position now...

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Strongly disagree, clipper is crushed under the strong NLY confluence via the H5 vortex of this weekend's system. Take a look at how the QPF output goes from about 0.5" in the Plains/Mid-west to essentially nothing upon reaching the east coast. If that vortex was displaced a bit further NE, we'd see a light snow accumulation at the very least. The retrograding low wouldn't give us anything, strong N/NNWLY downsloping winds 500 miles SW of the center of a low isn't going to do much good for us. Maybe if you're in Maine, but sadly we don't live up there. This weekend's non-event will in effect screw us out of another snow chance mid week IF it remains too close to New England. Too much of a vortex is a bad thing.

Yes, we want the offshore storm to get out of there without retrograding too much because the NW winds associated with the ULL are going to crush the clipper's moisture. The clipper doesn't need more moisture from another system to work with; it dumps .5" of QPF in Chicago, a fairly substantial snowfall. The problem is that the ULL continues to act as a meat grinder and chew up nice shortwaves headed in our direction, allowing New England to have a record long snowless streak. The East gets screwed again while MSP and ORD add to their outstanding seasonal totals, not too unusual for a La Niña year. Even the Mid-Atlantic is doing OK this year, but there's clearly a screw-zone from PHL-BOS/ORH.

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The moisture that the old storm was going to bring into the clipper, because it was supposed to be retrograding. Also, the old storm up North would have provided NE winds to lower the temps on Wed. Without NE winds, we'll get to 40 degrees.

How would the old storm bring moisture into the clipper? The two lows wouldn't phase, the stronger one (vortex) would suppress/weaken the other. I don't understand your second point either. The clipper track would have been south of the area, and evaporational cooling would sufficiently chill us to 32F with plenty cold 850mb temps.

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How would the old storm bring moisture into the clipper? The two lows wouldn't phase, the stronger one (vortex) would suppress/weaken the other. I don't understand your second point either. The clipper track would have been south of the area, and evaporational cooling would sufficiently chill us to 32F with plenty cold 850mb temps.

We would have had an established NE flow that probably would have been around for 3-4 days if you believed the old GFS runs. I never said the old storm would give moisture, it would supply more energy by retrograding back toward the coast. Some of the snow would have been from the old low. Secondly, evaporational cooling would not have been sufficient with only light precipitation.

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