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2nd Annual Snow Thread for the Mountains


Met1985

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Good call around here my mountain folk.  Everyone contributing didn't expect much if anything from this event, no one hyped it up due to outliers, and we got what was expected!  If you never set yourself up for disappointment, then anything that falls is a bonus.  Long range models look promising so I look forward to tracking more, thank to everyone who provides input.

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Good call around here my mountain folk.  Everyone contributing didn't expect much if anything from this event, no one hyped it up due to outliers, and we got what was expected!  If you never set yourself up for disappointment, then anything that falls is a bonus.  Long range models look promising so I look forward to tracking more, thank to everyone who provides input.

The bolded is the key word. We really never do very well with Cad setups like what we saw. I really never was felling it much anyway like Mike. We have seen an insane amount of rainfall the past month after a very dry period from August through October. I do like the pattern going forward. I like the way the Euro is handling the trough in the East through a good portion of the run and the GFS has a lot of energy rolling around in the southern stream as Robert from wxsouth has stated it is going to get busy with this pattern coming up and cold also. We have a big temp departure right know but I see that we are going to be below normal for a good bit coming up.

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Been a crazy amount of rain up top (about 1 foot in the last 30 days.) and seems like gales are starting to hit the mountain every 3 days or so. Wind storm Friday night caused some tree damage.  Another wind storm tomorrow morning possible with some hurricane force gusts suggested by the NAM. Lots of weather..but not really much Winter to talk about.

 

The GFS suggests a very high elevation(5500 feet+) snowfall possible this coming Saturday..in the 6 to 10" range.  Euro not on board but worth watching how this possible scenario develops.

Crazy Mike. I like the pattern coming up. We will see what we can squeeze out in this upcoming couple of weeks.

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welcome to the rain forest of sw nc mike. What got you interested in this area?

 

A trip to the area back in 1988. I hit fog on the road to Mt. Mitchell that was so bad I couldn't see to the end of the hood on the car!  I had no idea that mtns in NC were so much higher/had so much more interesting weather than where I grew up in Virginia.  I actually have a pic taken with Mt. Lyn Lowry in the background from the Blue Ridge Parkway..the same mtn top that I would purchase 25 years later. 

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Thoughts on snow chances tomorrow?

Nil? AVL NAM BUFKIT sounding would indicate nothing at all.  Very thin moist layer when temps drop below 0 C. Very narrow period of time.  No snow growth in the clouds. Maybe something on the TN line that the model sounding doesn't accurate depict...mostly rime ice.  The GFS doesn't look any better. I'm somewhat doubtful of even any flurries. 

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Some snow flurries on the mtn currently but based on SAT/Radar-it looks to be already about over. I'm guessing LeConte did pick up an inch or so.

 

 

34 and a moderate flizzard in the last hour here at the house

Ya guys we had some snow showers around here also. Nothing big but was blowing around. The switch has been flipped. Current temp down to 23 degrees with gust winds.

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Are you thinking on the back side of the front '85?

 

GSP thinking up to 2 inches on Sunday afternoon

Well both but the GFS has snow coming in on the front side for several hours by the 12z model. Maybe 4-6 hours of snow maybe more depending on how long we can hold onto the cold air. Like you said I like the backside with some snow coming in as the front passes.

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I am liking what they are showing also '85.  If we can get the low to track to the east of the apps then I really think we will be in business.  Models show cold air chasing right now but hopefully that will shift or we can get a decent deformation band to set up on the backside.  The most encouraging thing to me is where the low seems to be tracking.

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I am liking what they are showing also '85.  If we can get the low to track to the east of the apps then I really think we will be in business.  Models show cold air chasing right now but hopefully that will shift or we can get a decent deformation band to set up on the backside.  The most encouraging thing to me is where the low seems to be tracking.

Ya I agree on the backside but I think there is merit for this to start out as a good thump of snow on the front side also. Will be interesting to see how this trends.

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This is from the NWS Hazardous outlook. They also have rain and snow in the forecast Saturday night through Sunday.

SUNDAY...LIGHT SNOW POSSIBLE. NORTHWEST FLOW SNOW SHOWERS WILL
BE POSSIBLE ACROSS THE SMOKIES AND INTO THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS ON
SUNDAY AS RESIDUAL MOISTURE COMBINES WILL FALLING TEMPERATURES
BEHIND A PASSING COLD FRONT.
 

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This is from the NWS Hazardous outlook. They also have rain and snow in the forecast Saturday night through Sunday.

SUNDAY...LIGHT SNOW POSSIBLE. NORTHWEST FLOW SNOW SHOWERS WILL

BE POSSIBLE ACROSS THE SMOKIES AND INTO THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS ON

SUNDAY AS RESIDUAL MOISTURE COMBINES WILL FALLING TEMPERATURES

BEHIND A PASSING COLD FRONT.

 

 

Looking at model soundings..the front end of the storm looks more interesting to me.  Several hours of heavy wet snow are possible on the mtn tops Saturday morning above 5500 feet if the models verify.

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The GFS does look promising for a few snow showers developing overnight. Cannot believe I did not see this earlier.

 

Did anything develop? (Been distracted by Michigan weather-you would love it-snow every day this week-only about 4 degrees currently! :) ) I see winds this morning at Grandfather are gusting to 67 mph. Brrr!  Looked at the NAM/GFS..still suggests several hours of heavy mtn top wet snow Saturday. Nothing really on the backside of the storm.

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Looks like the 12Z NAM bringing in more upslope snow than previous runs for most of the day on Sunday (7am to 7pm for the northern mtns)

 

I guess I'm not feeling the love. Inversions are low-right around mtn top level..winds no more than 20 to 25 knots..marginal for upslope..and cloud temps will be on the warm side.(Snow grains? Freezing drizzle?) (See attached 12 Z NAM for Knoxville. Note the 0 C isotherm.)

 

A similar scenario to this did produce upslope snow but very shadowing on most of the NC side of the mtns. (Moisture trapped in TN perhaps by the low temperature inversion.) Looks like this event will last a little longer so perhaps 3" at LeConte and only flurries on my Mtn. Little better near Beech.(Of course-as I mentioned previously- the frontside of the storm could produce several wet inches at the highest elevations.)

 

One thing though-I am starting to suspect that the model soundings may not really be doing a good job at depicting what is going on at the higher elevations.  One thing I hope to use is realtime data from balloon sounding launches from Poga Mtn.  They will be launched during significant events this Winter. (I doubt one will be launched Sunday.) Will keep an eye on this. Data can be accessed here: http://www.atms.unca.edu/sempe/rt_sempe1314.html

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Geesh Mike...Thanks...Great explanation with data to back it up!

 

Just out of curiosity, whats the typical snow ratio with our wind driven upslope snows?  I noticed the 09Z SREF was showing up to .15" of post-front moisture for the northern mtns for a 9-hr period.  What would this equate in snow for that time period?

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Geesh Mike...Thanks...Great explanation with data to back it up!

 

Just out of curiosity, whats the typical snow ratio with our wind driven upslope snows?  I noticed the 09Z SREF was showing up to .15" of post-front moisture for the northern mtns for a 9-hr period.  What would this equate in snow for that time period?

 

Not sure. I have seen some discussion but don't have it handy.  As you know it can be crazy fluffy at times. (40 to 60 to 1.) Climatology is about 10 to 1 for this area  http://www.eas.slu.edu/CIPS/SLR/slrmap.htm That is why it is so important to look at snow growth regions in the cloud layers and if any omega present there to be able to make a guess at the fluff factor.  I think I would use 15 to 1 for this upcoming system on back end..8 to 1 on the front end.

 

I did go back and looked at some more upslope guidance. It suggests that when 850 temps are in the -2 to -6 C range..expect mostly flurries.  That is what is showing for temps in this upcoming scenario. It does mention that moisture above 850 mb isn't required but will be present during substantial events. The true soundings would probably show a spike of moisture much higher than depicted in the vicinity of the TN line which would change the equation somewhat.

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