2nd Annual Snow Thread for the Mountains

[jacobr57]

Thank I am fine haha but I can say as much for my car.  I think I broke a tire rod or something.  Luckily I steered enough through the curve that I ended up in the parking spots to the left instead of going straight through the curve and nailing a fire hydrant.  With that said, I feel pretty lucky this morning.

 

No way. Are you me? I crashed into a creek on Tuesday going around a curve and broke a tire rod.

[jburns]

I got my first AWD vehicle last year; great for going up slick hills; no help going down them.

  The bolded is what causes so many 4WD vehicles to end up in ditches.  New owners seem not to realize there is no advantage in a 4WD vehicle trying to slow down coming down a hill over one with 2WD.  All cars have four wheel brakes. They go sailing up a big hill with no problem and then expect the same kind of improvement on the way down. Nope.

[franklin NCwx]

The bolded is what causes so many 4WD vehicles to end up in ditches. New owners seem not to realize there is no advantage in a 4WD vehicle trying to slow down coming down a hill over one with 2WD. All cars have four wheel brakes. They go sailing up a big hill with no problem and then expect the same kind of improvement on the way down. Nope.

actually there is, four wheel low will help you down a hill.

[SnoJoe]

actually there is, four wheel low will help you down a hill.

 

 

Plus there is another feature. We have a hummer 2 and it has a "back balling" feature. If it senses that the tires are not holding the vehicle back it will shift accordingly.  

[CAD_Wedge_NC]

  The bolded is what causes so many 4WD vehicles to end up in ditches.  New owners seem not to realize there is no advantage in a 4WD vehicle trying to slow down coming down a hill over one with 2WD.  All cars have four wheel brakes. They go sailing up a big hill with no problem and then expect the same kind of improvement on the way down. Nope.

Yep, I learned that lesson quickly. Going is no problem.... stopping is.

[SnoJoe]

What is this snow tongue that's licking the SW mountains? Amount to anything?

[jburns]

actually there is, four wheel low will help you down a hill.

 

You will have to show me some more evidence on how four wheel low will give any traction advantage at all over any other vehicle coming down a hill.  IMO, assuming equal tires,  the four tires in contact with the road are the sole determining factor in the amount of traction available.

[NavarreDon]

What is this snow tongue that's licking the SW mountains? Amount to anything?

 

Just got home from a hellish day @ work! Everyone & their brother in WNC musta had cabin fever. Haven't looked at any models but noticed the moisture on the MRX radar & even more so OHX. Must be some sort of upper level impulse.?

[NavarreDon]

You will have to show me some more evidence on how four wheel low will give any traction advantage at all over any other vehicle coming down a hill.  IMO, assuming equal tires,  the four tires in contact with the road are the sole determining factor in the amount of traction available.

 

My 2004 Suburban will go down hill in 4X4 Low in 1st gear over snow, slush, or even ice. It just creeps (no break tapping required). I would assume the weight of that beast has something to do with it. I am not going to get anywhere quickly but, have never had a issue in some pretty bad weather situations.

[jburns]

My 2004 Suburban will go down hill in 4X4 Low in 1st gear over snow, slush, or even ice. It just creeps (no break tapping required). I would assume the weight of that beast has something to do with it. I am not going to get anywhere quickly but, have never had a issue in some pretty bad weather situations.

 

I agree you can do that and easier than with a 2wd.  But you can get the same effect with a 2wd easily with careful feathering of the brake. The amount of control you have is still dictated by the tires.   In any case, creeping down hill is not what I was referring to when talking about ending in a ditch. If everyone would creep downhill the ditches would be empty of any vehicles at all.  

[SnoJoe]

The way I understand it is 4wd takes full advantage of "engine braking". All four tires are under transmission control instead of two so theres never a need to brake because they slow in unison. Braking can sometimes be the worst thing you can do. I've driven down mountains hundreds of times in both 2wd and 4wd and there is a big difference. The 4wd vehicle is much more surefooted.

[jburns]

The way I understand it is 4wd takes full advantage of "engine braking". All four tires are under transmission control instead of two so theres never a need to brake because they slow in unison. Braking can sometimes be the worst thing you can do. I've driven down mountains hundreds of times in both 2wd and 4wd and there is a big difference. The 4wd vehicle is much more surefooted.

I'm going to stop this conversation after this post as we are getting way off the original topic. I've also driven 2 and 4WD vehicles through mountains for many years and POOR braking IS the worst thing you can do. That would be in a 2 or 4WD. Yes creeping down a hill in low FWD allows you to avoid using the brake, if the amount of traction needed to hold the vehicle back does not exceed the traction of the four tires.  Once again it cones down to tires.  Trying to creep down a hill using 2WD only give you 50% of the available holding traction of 4WD, so you would have to most likely supplement with PROPER braking.

 

Now all of this discussion is nice, but it has basically nothing to do with what I originally stated.  That is, if you start down a hill in icy conditions at too fast a speed there is basically no difference between 2 and 4WD in the ability to keep you out of the ditch. 

[NavarreDon]

I'm going to stop this conversation after this post as we are getting way off the original topic. I've also driven 2 and 4WD vehicles through mountains for many years and POOR braking IS the worst thing you can do. That would be in a 2 or 4WD. Yes creeping down a hill in low FWD allows you to avoid using the brake, if the amount of traction needed to hold the vehicle back does not exceed the traction of the four tires.  Once again it cones down to tires.  Trying to creep down a hill using 2WD only give you 50% of the available holding traction of 4WD, so you would have to most likely supplement with PROPER braking.

 

Now all of this discussion is nice, but it has basically nothing to do with what I originally stated.  That is, if you start down a hill in icy conditions at too fast a speed there is basically no difference between 2 and 4WD in the ability to keep you out of the ditch. 

 

Agree with you on that for sure. 4WD won't do any good if it comes equipped with a operator who has lack of grey matter! btw, any word on when you are getting your wings?

[Met1985]

whew roads aren't good... wrecked my car on my way to work coming down the hill where I live.  They haven't been treated around town but it looks like the interstates are ok.

Wow man glad to hear you are ok. Sorry about your vehicle. This morning the road conditions were worst that Thursday morning. I think this was the case because we had rain then sleet then we had snow on top but just enough to really help the roads freeze up.

[NavarreDon]

For those of us who have been watching the radar. ( Joe & myself ) GSP is watching but doesn't seem to impressed.

 

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH SUNDAY/...
930 PM UPDATE...LIGHT PRECIP NOW SEEN ON RADAR OVER EAST
TN...REACHING THE GROUND AS -SN AT KCSV BUT NOWHERE ELSE YET. SAME
BAND IS ALREADY ENTERING THE FAR WRN PORTION OF THE CWFA BUT MORE
ACTIVITY IS PRESENT UPSTREAM. WITH JUST THAT ONE SFC REPORT SO
FAR...MAINTAINED FLURRIES OVERNIGHT MAINLY OVER NC. 00Z NAM NOT
PRODUCING ANY QPF RESPONSE EAST OF THE MTNS OVER OUR FA. REVISED
TEMPS/DEWPTS OVERNIGHT AND INTO TMRW WITH THE MAIN EFFECT BEING TO
DROP LOWS A COUPLE DEGREES...PARTICULARLY OVER THE NW PIEDMONT.

[Hvward]

Wow man glad to hear you are ok. Sorry about your vehicle. This morning the road conditions were worst that Thursday morning. I think this was the case because we had rain then sleet then we had snow on top but just enough to really help the roads freeze up.

 

Thanks man.. yeah it also didn't help at ALL that my front tires were bald.  Made the mistake of shifting up then trying to shift down instead of using the break before the turn but as soon as I shifted down we went into full skid.  Its crazy how a little NWF event can mess the road up more then the 3" downpour we got last monday.  I guess it just goes to show how 10 degrees makes a HUGE difference.

[SnoJoe]

For those of us who have been watching the radar. ( Joe & myself ) GSP is watching but doesn't seem to impressed.

 

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH SUNDAY/...

930 PM UPDATE...LIGHT PRECIP NOW SEEN ON RADAR OVER EAST

TN...REACHING THE GROUND AS -SN AT KCSV BUT NOWHERE ELSE YET. SAME

BAND IS ALREADY ENTERING THE FAR WRN PORTION OF THE CWFA BUT MORE

ACTIVITY IS PRESENT UPSTREAM. WITH JUST THAT ONE SFC REPORT SO

FAR...MAINTAINED FLURRIES OVERNIGHT MAINLY OVER NC. 00Z NAM NOT

PRODUCING ANY QPF RESPONSE EAST OF THE MTNS OVER OUR FA. REVISED

TEMPS/DEWPTS OVERNIGHT AND INTO TMRW WITH THE MAIN EFFECT BEING TO

DROP LOWS A COUPLE DEGREES...PARTICULARLY OVER THE NW PIEDMONT.

 

 

I saw that. Not much to it but kind of interesting. 

 

I'll have to admit, I'm looking forward to a little thaw next week. Spending way too much time at home. Survival supplies are at critical levels. I see lunch at Bellagio's in my near future. 

[NavarreDon]

I saw that. Not much to it but kind of interesting.

I'll have to admit, I'm looking forward to a little thaw next week. Spending way too much time at home. Survival supplies are at critical levels. I see lunch at Bellagio's in my near future.

I bet that is one of your favorite restaraunts around Asheville Joe......& it has nothing to do with the food!

[Met1985]

Just looked outside and it is snowing with a dusting of snow on the vehicles.

[WxBlue]

Looking forward to short term warmth here. As for cars, Asheville is the reason why my dad sold my first car, a old 94 Honda Accord, after two years in exchange for 2006 Volvo. My dad and I knew that my first car wasn't going to make it around WNC when I tried to drive it up the hill between Marion & Asheville and it almost blew up pushing it uphill.    At least my Volvo will feel good on Blue Ridge Parkway!

[jburns]

Agree with you on that for sure. 4WD won't do any good if it comes equipped with a operator who has lack of grey matter! btw, any word on when you are getting your wings?

 

lol  Nope.  I don't even know if.

[NavarreDon]

Got up to hit the head & low-n-behold it's snowing again. Not heavy but the cars are white & it's laying on the ground. Radar doesn't look impressive but it's there. What a week: M (S) W (S+) T (S) S (S) S (S) That's 5 out of 7 days!

 

Edit: 5:45 am, just went out to measure & ended with .75".....a over performer!

[Met1985]

Got up to hit the head & low-n-behold it's snowing again. Not heavy but the cars are white & it's laying on the ground. Radar doesn't look impressive but it's there. What a week: M (S) W (S+) T (S) S (S) S (S) That's 5 out of 7 days!

 

Edit: 5:45 am, just went out to measure & ended with .75".....a over performer!

Ya Don we picked up right at 1 inch of snow overnight. What an impressive week this week for snow. We picked up 3 inches Monday then we picked up 11 inches for the Wednesday and Thursday storm, then we picked up 1.5 inches yesterday morning and another 1 inch this morning making this one of the snowiest weeks here in quite a few years. Total from Monday through Sunday this week is 16.5 inches! Wow impressive!

[SnoJoe]

Wow. Same here. Picked up a little over an inch. I had 4.5 with the "big one", 3 with the clipper, and the inch last night put me over 40 for the year. Only 25 more for my average. It better get busy.

[Hvward]

With my 3" monday, 8" on Wednesday and then .5" the past two nights I had a foot for the week!  In my opinion thats about as successful of a week as you can have living in the south.

[franklin NCwx]

I'm going to stop this conversation after this post as we are getting way off the original topic. I've also driven 2 and 4WD vehicles through mountains for many years and POOR braking IS the worst thing you can do. That would be in a 2 or 4WD. Yes creeping down a hill in low FWD allows you to avoid using the brake, if the amount of traction needed to hold the vehicle back does not exceed the traction of the four tires. Once again it cones down to tires. Trying to creep down a hill using 2WD only give you 50% of the available holding traction of 4WD, so you would have to most likely supplement with PROPER braking.

Now all of this discussion is nice, but it has basically nothing to do with what I originally stated. That is, if you start down a hill in icy conditions at too fast a speed there is basically no difference between 2 and 4WD in the ability to keep you out of the ditch.

while you are correct on the braking aspect, by utilizing four wheel low you give yourself the ability to "crawl down" a hill without touching the brakes. We can expand this to even going down steep grades here on gravel roads. I use this feature all the time when I have a loaded trailer behind me when going down a steep gravel road as using the brakes will just let the vehicle slide in the loose gravel.

[WxBlue]

Woke up this morning to see about an inch of snow filling in the melted areas... nice!

[NavarreDon]

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC

344 AM EST MON FEB 17 2014

NCZ033-049-050-501-503-505-180845-

AVERY-YANCEY-MITCHELL-CALDWELL MOUNTAINS-BURKE MOUNTAINS-

MCDOWELL MOUNTAINS-

344 AM EST MON FEB 17 2014

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA.

.DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT.

LIGHT PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED TO OVERSPREAD THE MOUNTAINS

AHEAD OF A COLD FRONT THIS EVENING. ALTHOUGH IT IS EXPECTED TO

BEGIN AS RAIN IN MOST AREAS...TEMPERATURES ARE EXPECTED TO QUICKLY

COOL TO FREEZING OR BELOW ACROSS THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS...

ESPECIALLY IN AREAS NEAR THE BLUE RIDGE. THIS WILL RESULT IN A

WINTRY MIX...WITH LIGHT ACCUMULATIONS LIKELY. AT THIS TIME...IT IS

NOT CLEAR IF SLEET OR FREEZING RAIN WILL BE THE PRIMARY

PRECIPITATION TYPE. IF FUTURE DATA INDICATES THAT FREEZING RAIN

WILL BE THE PRIMARY PRECIPITATION TYPE...A WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY

MAY BE ISSUED FOR THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS LATER TODAY.

[Met1985]

Looks like we are far from being done with winter. Models seems to be in pretty good consensus that we see some impressive cold air for the end of the month an possibly for March. Even arctic air coming down possibly with the EPO going negative and the huge Western ridge setting in for a time. I still like the thought of us having a big March.

[Hvward]

I am calling for a Lion of a beginning!  When even the gfs is showing the cold outbreak you know its real haha.  I think we are setting ourselves up for a memorable March with the ridge '85 was eluding to building out west, it only takes one gulf to costal transfer to put us in business big time.