Interior NW Burbs & Hudson Valley - Discussion

[NepaJames8602]

Believe it or not but we have been above normal up here as well. It may not seem like it but I'm running about 15" above normal since 2002. 

 

Even last yr I finished roughly 8" above normal with 58"

 

Yup, same here.. Despite the lack of large systems, I have managed to nickel and dime my way to average outside of 2011. So while it may seem like we are truly getting shafted, those small nickel and dime events that the city often does not receive and we do, surely adds up! Especially with elevation.

[nzucker]

Regardless nzucker, one can't deny the fact that you guys along the coast are in a tremendous and god awful lucky stretch of large sized snowfalls pretty much the past 5-10 years. It seems to be a cycle.. The amount of snowfall you folks have received is nowhere near normal for those locations. So Snywx is absolutely correct about that. There is a reason the city averages under 30 inches in a typical year, while we can average anywhere from 50-70 inches depending on your location and elevation. Not trying to stir the pot here, it's just shear fact lol.

You're not stirring the pot, you're stating mathematical averages. Our house at 1600' in the northern Poconos near the NY border averages about 70" a year. My hometown of Dobbs Ferry averages 36" per year, and my current location in Southern Brooklyn is 24-25" per year.

Regardless, the tables have turned recently. The Poconos can't have gotten near 70" since 06-07, though they did decently in 09-10. Dobbs Ferry has exceeded average in 8/11 winters starting with 02-03. Three winters have seen over 60", and one winter had 70"...Since 08-09, 14 snowfalls of 8" or more have occurred; 7 snowfalls of greater than 12" have happened with 26" falling on 2/25/10. Three snowfalls of more than 12" happened in 10-11 alone.

I really understand the frustration because we have the house up there. We've seen a dearth of SW flow events since 08-09, and almost no coastal huggers since 06-07 when we had V-day, St. Patty's Day, and Tax Day. 05-06 and 03-04 were also poor winters in the Poconos though we did well in 02-03 with PD2 and the Xmas storm.

[nzucker]

Yup, the entire week of that big retro low in 2010 was amazing. I received roughly 20 inches here in the Central part of Pike county, meanwhile northern portions of my county bordering Orange county Ny, easily received closer to 30. I don't know if some of you remember, but about two days prior to this storm hitting, there was a sneaky coastal storm that also came up the coast and gave us here in the Poconos 10-15 inches. I had a 30-40 inch snow pack county wide in like 3 days. That was an awesome week!

I was at college in Middlebury VT for the first storm and we got 20". Originally the retrograde of the 2/25 system was going to be further north and Vermont would have gotten another 20". However it soon became obvious that it would be rain on campus so I drive to Dobbs at 4am for the 26" of snow. That was the heaviest snow of my life...I was seeing yellow on the radar and expecting rain but instead, 3" per hour snows arrived. Between 2/24 and 2/25 I saw two 20" storms in two days.

February 2010 was incredible. Dobbs had 26" from 2/25, 6.5" 2/16, 13" from 2/10, and 2" from 2/3...that's 47.5" in one month for a place that averages 35" a year. LOL

January 2011 was also amazing. I got 14.5" on 1/12 and 14" 1/27 as well as 5" on 1/7. Had 35" that month with almost 30" on the ground after the 2/2 ice storm and associated snow. Not as snowy as Feb 2010 but much colder.

[NepaJames8602]

You're not stirring the pot, you're stating mathematical averages. Our house at 1600' in the northern Poconos near the NY border averages about 70" a year. My hometown of Dobbs Ferry averages 36" per year, and my current location in Southern Brooklyn is 24-25" per year.

Regardless, the tables have turned recently. The Poconos can't have gotten near 70" since 06-07, though they did decently in 09-10. Dobbs Ferry has exceeded average in 8/11 winters starting with 02-03. Three winters have seen over 60", and one winter had 70"...Since 08-09, 14 snowfalls of 8" or more have occurred; 7 snowfalls of greater than 12" have happened with 26" falling on 2/25/10. Three snowfalls of more than 12" happened in 10-11 alone.

I really understand the frustration because we have the house up there. We've seen a dearth of SW flow events since 08-09, and almost no coastal huggers since 06-07 when we had V-day, St. Patty's Day, and Tax Day. 05-06 and 03-04 were also poor winters in the Poconos though we did well in 02-03 with PD2 and the Xmas storm.

 

Just remember, seasonal snowfalls are mere averages of extremes based off a certain period of time. That's why so many snowfall averages can change based off even a 10 year period. But your 70 inch number seems about right for Wayne county. I know we have talked in the past, and Wayne county Pa is truly in an excellent location, especially with elevation. I'm in Pike county to the southeast, and probably average 55 inches a year here at 1,230 feet. I know locations to my west around 2,000 feet on the Pocono plateau average 70 as well. Elevation is truly key here in the Poconos, especially when it comes to early and late season snowfalls.

 

Like I said in the post above, I have managed to squeak by with nickel and dime events hitting average despite the lack of large sized snowfalls. I guess that is the added benefit with some elevation and a further west longitude at times. I'm not to familiar on Wayne county numbers though. Also.. Portions of northern Wayne county's snowfall, can actually be contributed with at least 5-10 inches a year from renegade les bands that manage to work their way far enough south at times. I would kill to live up there at times haha.

 

However, I'm glad you understand the frustration and bit of negative attitude I have given the conditions here the past 5+ years. You seem to understand the area quite well and past events. I hope this cycle truly comes to an end sooner than later.

[nzucker]

Yup, same here.. Despite the lack of large systems, I have managed to nickel and dime my way to average outside of 2011. So while it may seem like we are truly getting shafted, those small nickel and dime events that the city often does not receive and we do, surely adds up! Especially with elevation.

Places further NW have been receiving less though. I can't imagine my house in northern Wayne County has received their 70" average except maybe in 09-10. 10-11 had too many misses, 11-12 was a torch, and the 2/8 blizzard last year also favored the coast.

[snywx]

4 events in Feb 2010.. ( Not including a few lgt events at the beginning of the month)

...ORANGE COUNTY...   HARRIMAN              11.5  1100 PM  2/10   PUBLIC   MONROE                11.0   845 PM  2/10   PUBLIC   TUXEDO PARK           11.0   700 PM  2/10   PUBLIC   WARWICK                9.5  1020 PM  2/10   SKYWARN SPOTTER   FLORIDA                8.0  1000 PM  2/10   PUBLIC   GOSHEN                 7.2   845 PM  2/10   SKYWARN SPOTTER   NEW WINDSOR            5.6   900 PM  2/10   PUBLIC   CORNWALL               5.0  1130 PM  2/10   SKYWARN SPOTTER   MONTGOMERY             4.0   645 AM  2/11   SKYWARN SPOTTER   NEWBURGH               4.0   830 PM  2/10   SKYWARN SPOTTER   NEW WINDSOR            3.5   600 AM  2/11   SKYWARN SPOTTER   VAILS GATE             3.4  1030 PM  2/10   SKYWARN SPOTTER

..ORANGE COUNTY...   CHESTER                8.6   430 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WARWICK                8.0   624 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER   HARRIMAN               7.5   500 PM  2/16   PUBLIC   MONTGOMERY             7.5   245 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER   MIDDLETOWN             7.3   630 PM  2/16   PUBLIC   TUXEDO                 6.4   602 PM  2/16   PUBLIC   GOSHEN                 6.1   530 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER   MONROE                 5.0   700 PM  2/16   PUBLIC   NEW WINDSOR            5.0   440 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER   CORNWALL-ON-HUDSON     4.6   732 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER   VAILS GATE             4.2   545 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WALDEN                 3.5   245 PM  2/16   SKYWARN SPOTTER

...ORANGE COUNTY...   MOUNT HOPE            11.3   630 AM  2/24   SKYWARN SPOTTER   NEW WINDSOR           10.5   700 AM  2/24   PUBLIC   OTISVILLE              9.8   200 AM  2/24   COCORAHS   VAILS GATE             9.5   600 AM  2/24   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WARWICK                8.5   710 AM  2/24   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WASHINGTONVILLE        8.1   845 AM  2/24   SKYWARN SPOTTER   MIDDLETOWN             7.0  1045 PM  2/23   PUBLIC   GOSHEN                 6.4   800 AM  2/24   SKYWARN SPOTTER   PORT JERVIS            6.3   700 AM  2/24   COOP   MONROE                 6.0   500 AM  2/24   PUBLIC   FLORIDA                5.8   820 AM  2/24   PUBLIC   HARRIMAN               5.5   500 AM  2/24   PUBLIC   NEWBURGH               5.0  1045 PM  2/23   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WESTTOWN               5.0   500 AM  2/24   SKYWARN SPOTTER   TUXEDO                 4.0   830 AM  2/24   PUBLIC   WEST POINT             4.0   745 AM  2/24   SKYWARN SPOTTER

..ORANGE COUNTY...   HIGHLAND MILLS        34.0   915 AM  2/27   PUBLIC   HARRIMAN              33.0   800 AM  2/27   PUBLIC   MONROE                32.0   530 PM  2/26   PUBLIC   GOSHEN                29.4   600 PM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER   TUXEDO                29.0   845 PM  2/26   PUBLIC   MIDDLETOWN            28.0   615 PM  2/26   PUBLIC   MOUNT HOPE            27.5   130 PM  2/26   COCORAHS   CUDDEBACKVILLE        27.0   719 AM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WASHINGTONVILLE       25.5   700 AM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WARWICK               25.0   726 AM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER   CORNWALL-ON-HUDSON    24.0   625 AM  2/27   SKYWARN SPOTTER   FLORIDA               23.0   300 PM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER   GREENVILLE            22.5   600 PM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER   VAILS GATE            22.5  1030 AM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER   WALDEN                22.0   850 AM  2/26   SKYWARN SPOTTER

[NepaJames8602]

Places further NW have been receiving less though. I can't imagine my house in northern Wayne County has received their 70" average except maybe in 09-10. 10-11 had too many misses, 11-12 was a torch, and the 2/8 blizzard last year also favored the coast.

 

Yeah, I agree with that. Keep in mind I'm also much further east than your house in Wayne county haha.

[nzucker]

Just remember, seasonal snowfalls are mere averages of extremes based off a certain period of time. That's why so many snowfall averages can change based off even a 10 year period. But your 70 inch number seems about right for Wayne county. I know we have talked in the past, and Wayne county Pa is truly in an excellent location, especially with elevation. I'm in Pike county to the southeast, and probably average 55 inches a year here at 1,230 feet. I know locations to my west around 2,000 feet on the Pocono plateau average 70 as well. Elevation is truly key here in the Poconos, especially when it comes to early and late season snowfalls.

Like I said in the post above, I have managed to squeak by with nickel and dime events hitting average despite the lack of large sized snowfalls. I guess that is the added benefit with some elevation and a further west longitude at times. I'm not to familiar on Wayne county numbers though. Also.. Portions of northern Wayne county's snowfall, can actually be contributed with at least 5-10 inches a year from renegade les bands that manage to work their way far enough south at times. I would kill to live up there at times haha.

.

It is hard for me to know how much they have gotten because I am only there 2x a winter or so, and Wayne County receives a lot of smaller snowfalls you don't hear about. For example, we had 3" 12/31 when I was up there for winter break just from the arctic front. Then, the 1/2 system was a disappointment despite all the hype with only 4". Forecasters called for "more in the mountains" and in "elevated sections of Wayne and Delaware County," and it didn't pan out. Brooklyn got more than anyone up there and I wanted to go skiing.

I think the 70" figure is reasonably accurate. There is a PA snowfall map that shows a local maximum in Wayne County, and I believe it. There is definitely more leftover lake effect than to the south, and the area is far enough east to get in on the deformation bands of most Nor'easters. Also, elevations are high...I'm in a valley but still at 1560'. The ridges near my house get up near 2100' if you drive a few miles, and Sugarloaf Mountain is 2500'.

I think snowfall in the area is very dependent on elevation. I've noticed Hancock NY in the Delaware River Valley and Scranton PA in the Susquehanna River Valley average a lot less snowfall. In the 10/16/09 event, my house at 1560' accumulated nothing but I hiked a ridge to 2000' and there was 3" of fresh snow. In January of 2009, my house had 8" on the ground...I hiked up near 2100' and they had 20"+...there was also a clipper in Jan 2009 that dumped 11" at our house in Lake Como but left only a dusting in Scranton. It's very localized with fast changes in elevation affecting temperature and lift.

[snywx]

Yeah, I agree with that. Keep in mind I'm also much further east than your house in Wayne county haha.

 

Northern Wayne county I believe is closer to BGM than you. BGM is a whole different weather world lol..

[snywx]

It is hard for me to know how much they have gotten because I am only there 2x a winter or so, and Wayne County receives a lot of smaller snowfalls you don't hear about. For example, we had 3" 12/31 when I was up there for winter break just from the arctic front. Then, the 1/2 system was a disappointment despite all the hype with only 4". Forecasters called for "more in the mountains" and in "elevated sections of Wayne and Delaware County," and it didn't pan out. Brooklyn got more than anyone up there and I wanted to go skiing.

I think the 70" figure is reasonably accurate. There is a PA snowfall map that shows a local maximum in Wayne County, and I believe it. There is definitely more leftover lake effect than to the south, and the area is far enough east to get in on the deformation bands of most Nor'easters. Also, elevations are high...I'm in a valley but still at 1560'. The ridges near my house get up near 2100' if you drive a few miles, and Sugarloaf Mountain is 2500'.

I think snowfall in the area is very dependent on elevation. I've noticed Hancock NY in the Delaware River Valley and Scranton PA in the Susquehanna River Valley average a lot less snowfall. In the 10/16/09 event, my house at 1560' accumulated nothing but I hiked a ridge to 2000' and there was 3" of fresh snow. In January of 2009, my house had 8" on the ground...I hiked up near 2100' and they had 20"+...there was also a clipper in Jan 2009 that dumped 11" at our house in Lake Como but left only a dusting in Scranton. It's very localized with fast changes in elevation affecting temperature and lift.

[NepaJames8602]

Northern Wayne county I believe is closer to BGM than you. BGM is a whole different weather world lol..

 

A hell of a lot closer, they're on the border of the twin tiers and are probably only 30-40 min from Binghamton I assume?

 

Yes, Binghamton lives in a crazy location, and some very nice averages there.

[NepaJames8602]

That map is a bit off in the central Counties of the Poconos though Snywx. Especially over the Pocono plateau that averages closer to that 70 inch number. Hell, it even has me in the 40-51 zone, when I average 55. Even Tannersville Pa in Monroe county, about 1 hour south of me at only 900 feet averages 54 inches a year.

[snywx]

That map is a bit off in the central Counties of the Poconos though Snywx. Especially over the Pocono plateau that averages closer to that 70 inch number. Hell, it even has me in the 40-51 zone, when I average 55. Even Tannersville Pa in Monroe county, about 1 hour south of me at only 900 feet averages 54 inches a year.

 

 

Just posting what the NWS has for PA for 1981-2010 lol... Don't kill the messenger. 

[nzucker]

4 events in Feb 2010.. ( Not including a few lgt events at the beginning of the month)]

It looks like you did decently in 2/10, a little less than Westchester and NYC. And you had nice totals in 2/16 as well which was sort of a surprise decent storm. The monster totals from the Snowicane are amazing though. 34" in Highland Mills? Wow! I thought my 26" was a lot...

February 2010 was a historically snowy month, but it lacked cold and snowpack. We had bare ground in Dobbs Ferry starting the Snowicane despite 6.5" on 2/16 and 13" on 2/10. And the snow from 2/25 was gone by early March as a huge torch developed. I went to a party on April 16 in Westchester, and coming home from Vermont I was shocked to see Dobbs fully leafed out. Usually we don't leaf out until almost May!

The 09-10 winter was a solid A-...great snowfall with a solid December and historic February, but mediocre cold except for a little bit in December and a brief arctic blast between 1/27 and 2/5. March and November were near record warmth.

10-11 was the only A winter recently...very cold and snowy December, continued cold and deep snows in January, one 8" event in February, and a cold end to March with two snow events.

This winter is quickly earning my respect...good December with a 4-8" storm, two 10-12" storms in January, and a powerful arctic blast followed by sustained cold in late January and early February.

[NepaJames8602]

It is hard for me to know how much they have gotten because I am only there 2x a winter or so, and Wayne County receives a lot of smaller snowfalls you don't hear about. For example, we had 3" 12/31 when I was up there for winter break just from the arctic front. Then, the 1/2 system was a disappointment despite all the hype with only 4". Forecasters called for "more in the mountains" and in "elevated sections of Wayne and Delaware County," and it didn't pan out. Brooklyn got more than anyone up there and I wanted to go skiing.

I think the 70" figure is reasonably accurate. There is a PA snowfall map that shows a local maximum in Wayne County, and I believe it. There is definitely more leftover lake effect than to the south, and the area is far enough east to get in on the deformation bands of most Nor'easters. Also, elevations are high...I'm in a valley but still at 1560'. The ridges near my house get up near 2100' if you drive a few miles, and Sugarloaf Mountain is 2500'.

I think snowfall in the area is very dependent on elevation. I've noticed Hancock NY in the Delaware River Valley and Scranton PA in the Susquehanna River Valley average a lot less snowfall. In the 10/16/09 event, my house at 1560' accumulated nothing but I hiked a ridge to 2000' and there was 3" of fresh snow. In January of 2009, my house had 8" on the ground...I hiked up near 2100' and they had 20"+...there was also a clipper in Jan 2009 that dumped 11" at our house in Lake Como but left only a dusting in Scranton. It's very localized with fast changes in elevation affecting temperature and lift.

 

Your post can pretty much sum up all of the Poconos. Closes 2,000 foot elevation is about 20 min west of me, "High Knob" 2,054 feet. There is various ridge lines in the western portions of my county that exceed 2,000 feet as well. Some very nice 2,200 to 2,300 foot locations in the southern portions of Wayne county near Gouldsboro as well, that area surely receives close to 70 inches a year. They're like a snow magnet at times.

 

Even here at my 1,230 foot location, I have seen countless times where I can receive 6 or more inches of snow, go up the road 10 min to 1,500 to 1,600 feet and they have close to a foot. Find a 2,000 foot location or greater, talking 12+ easily. Then you drive 10 min north down in the valley near Milford Pa at 500 feet, they have nothing but all rain. This is truly a microclimate of our own. The elevation change in my "township" alone, goes from 350 feet near the Delaware river, to as high as 1,500 feet in spots. My area of the county is all ridge and valley. I would love to find a place out on the plateau someday, but unfortunately it's just not reasonable for me, especially with commuting to work. I think I can sacrifice the additional 15 inches of snow haha.

 

Btw, I never considered your area the "Poconos", just too far north and away from the geographical center of the range. When I think of Poconos I think of Honesdale on south into my county, (Pike), Monroe and Carbon counties. I guess in reference you would be though, your terrain surely accounts for it haha. However you are rather close to the endless mountains to your west right? I know there is some terrific locations just under 2,700 feet to your west, (elk hill) ski resort in Susquehanna county. You guys have a borderline Catskills climate, northern Wayne is like a southwest extension of them almost.

[snywx]

That map is a bit off in the central Counties of the Poconos though Snywx. Especially over the Pocono plateau that averages closer to that 70 inch number. Hell, it even has me in the 40-51 zone, when I average 55. Even Tannersville Pa in Monroe county, about 1 hour south of me at only 900 feet averages 54 inches a year.

 

Here is Uptons snow average map.. Its off but not by much. Hudson Highlands on the eastern side of OC should be in the 50" range and areas here on the western side especially the shawangunk ridge should be above 50" Other than that it looks pretty good.

[NepaJames8602]

Just posting what the NWS has for PA for 1981-2010 lol... Don't kill the messenger. 

 

I know, it's just frustrating every time I see that map LOL.

[nzucker]

Just posting what the NWS has for PA for 1981-2010 lol... Don't kill the messenger.

No way just west of Wilkes-Barre only averages 31"... That would be well less than Westchester although the storm track doesn't favor them.

I think it generally corroborates my thinking showing 60-70" across the Northern Tier. Obviously a large map can't account for small differences in elevation locally as being mentioned by the poster from Pike County. The ridges around my house are commonly 2000-2100' and probably average 80"+ a year while downtown Honesdale at 1000' is probably only 55-60" a year but the map can't show that.

I could see the highest parts of Wayne County averaging close to 90" per year, or at least 85"...I have hiked to the top of a few very tall ridges that probably receive lake effect, topographical enhancement from being the highest on the plateau, and early and late season snowfalls.

In winters like 93-94, more than 100" must have fallen in places like Lake Como. Snow was up to the windows and I made huge tunnels and forts we still have pictures of. I can't imagine making those structures with the meager snowpack we've had in recent years.

[snywx]

It looks like you did decently in 2/10, a little less than Westchester and NYC. And you had nice totals in 2/16 as well which was sort of a surprise decent storm. The monster totals from the Snowicane are amazing though. 34" in Highland Mills? Wow! I thought my 26" was a lot...

February 2010 was a historically snowy month, but it lacked cold and snowpack. We had bare ground in Dobbs Ferry starting the Snowicane despite 6.5" on 2/16 and 13" on 2/10. And the snow from 2/25 was gone by early March as a huge torch developed. I went to a party on April 16 in Westchester, and coming home from Vermont I was shocked to see Dobbs fully leafed out. Usually we don't leaf out until almost May!

The 09-10 winter was a solid A-...great snowfall with a solid December and historic February, but mediocre cold except for a little bit in December and a brief arctic blast between 1/27 and 2/5. March and November were near record warmth.

10-11 was the only A winter recently...very cold and snowy December, continued cold and deep snows in January, one 8" event in February, and a cold end to March with two snow events.

This winter is quickly earning my respect...good December with a 4-8" storm, two 10-12" storms in January, and a powerful arctic blast followed by sustained cold in late January and early February.

 

 

I remember turning on the TV and seeing all the news crews live in Central Valley cause of the jackpot totals lol.. My folks live in Highland Mills and I had to see it for myself. Went the next day and measured for myself lol.. It was at least 34"!! My inlaws live on the Monroe/Chester border and they had about 35" as well. This is all on top of the 8-12" storm 24 hrs prior. It was quite a sight.

[NepaJames8602]

nzucker, I just looked up Lake Como. Yeah...You're far up there in Northern Wayne county. Completely different climate than here in Pike county. Decent location for les, elevation snowfalls, and some coast hugging Nor'easters. Some of those high ridges near you have to have a very similar climate to the Catskills. Your latitude extended directly east, aligns well with Northern Sullivan County Ny. Awesome location man!

 

Only question is, what the hell do locals do for work up there? I can't imagine the "local climate" having much to offer. Must be a lot of summer homes and snow birds there haha.

[nzucker]

Your post can pretty much sum up all of the Poconos. Closes 2,000 foot elevation is about 20 min west of me, "High Knob" 2,054 feet. There is various ridge lines in the western portions of my county that exceed 2,000 feet as well. Some very nice 2,200 to 2,300 foot locations in the southern portions of Wayne county near Gouldsboro as well, that area surely receives close to 70 inches a year. They're like a snow magnet at times.

Even here at my 1,230 foot location, I have seen countless times where I can receive 6 or more inches of snow, go up the road 10 min to 1,500 to 1,600 feet and they have close to a foot. Find a 2,000 foot location or greater, talking 12+ easily. Then you drive 10 min north down in the valley near Milford Pa at 500 feet, they have nothing but all rain. This is truly a microclimate of our own. The elevation change in my "township" alone, goes from 350 feet near the Delaware river, to as high as 1,500 feet in spots. My area of the county is all ridge and valley. I would love to find a place out on the plateau someday, but unfortunately it's just not reasonable for me, especially with commuting to work. I think I can sacrifice the additional 15 inches of snow haha.

Btw, I never considered your area the "Poconos", just too far north and away from the geographical center of the range. When I think of Poconos I think of Honesdale on south into my county, (Pike), Monroe and Carbon counties. I guess in reference you would be though, your terrain surely accounts for it haha. However you are rather close to the endless mountains to your west right? I know there is some terrific locations just under 2,700 feet to your west, (elk hill) ski resort in Susquehanna county. You guys have a borderline Catskills climate, northern Wayne is like a southwest extension of them almost.

Delaware River Valley is a huge snow hole. I notice driving from Hancock NY to Lake Como PA that we always have more snow. And the elevations along the Delaware decrease as you go south so the shadowing effect becomes more pronounced. I also think the Scranton area has lower totals from shadowing as NE winds downslope them off the Pocono Plateau during Nor'easters. I even notice some minor shadowing in Lake Como as its 1560' is the lowest elevation nearby as it's the valley formed by the lake. The ridges, which are mostly to the west, at 2000-2200', collect much of the lake effect and weaker bands. That's why I think I found double the amount of snow up there in January 2009 despite gaining only 600' elevation.

I definitely agree about it being more the Endless Mountains. The Pocono Plateau and associated ski areas are mostly well to the south. We have slightly different weather with more lake effect and colder nights...I hit -20F up there on 1/3 after the last storm. But I radiate well at the bottom of a valley at high elevation.

I would love to live in a snowier area but I have a teaching job at a great school in Southern Brooklyn. I know this area is a pit for snow in the long term (and for nature, as I need more outdoors and beautiful landscapes), but this is where I make a living and have most of my social life. I do try to get to the Poconos about 6-7 times per year. My parents live there in summer.

[nzucker]

Here is Uptons snow average map.. Its off but not by much. Hudson Highlands on the eastern side of OC should be in the 50" range and areas here on the western side especially the shawangunk ridge should be above 50" Other than that it looks pretty good.

You know I have major problems with this map. The effect of the Hudson River is exaggerated on snowfall totals, and is overemphasized compared to the more important LI Sound. It shows Dobbs Ferry getting less snow than Mamaroneck, and only 25-30" a year, when we know western parts of the county get more and the coop in Dobbs has a 36" per year average.

It also underplays the Hudson Highlands and the Gunks as you mentioned. As well as the ridge that runs through Central Westchester from the Juhring Estate in Dobbs to the Taxter Ridge in Irvington to the high areas along the Saw Mill Parkway and then the elevated area just east of Route 9 further north. This area is near 500' and definitely should be 35-40".

[nzucker]

Here is Uptons snow average map.. Its off but not by much. Hudson Highlands on the eastern side of OC should be in the 50" range and areas here on the western side especially the shawangunk ridge should be above 50" Other than that it looks pretty good.

This also underrepresented snow on LI. No way places along the LIE in Nassau and Suffolk see less than 25" per year...more like 25-30". The only places in the metro averaging less than 25" are the Twin Forks, barrier islands, and extreme southern Brooklyn and Queens. I am right near the Verrazano and I still think Bay Ridge gets 25" per year. They do show a nice subtle maxima on the eastern North Shore which I agree with.

The general tendency on the map is to be too low.

[snywx]

Lived in Highland Mills for the winter of 02/03 and it was beyond impressive. That was the yr when I realized how much of a snow magnet that area really is. Im sure elevation and lat/lon play a factor but man its a snow weenies dream lol..

 

02/03 winter was around 95" there

 

 

09/10 winter was 88-90" there

[nzucker]

nzucker, I just looked up Lake Como. Yeah...You're far up there in Northern Wayne county. Completely different climate than here in Pike county. Decent location for les, elevation snowfalls, and some coast hugging Nor'easters. Some of those high ridges near you have to have a very similar climate to the Catskills. Your latitude extended directly east, aligns well with Northern Sullivan County Ny. Awesome location man!

Only question is, what the hell do locals do for work up there? I can't imagine the "local climate" having much to offer. Must be a lot of summer homes and snow birds there haha.

It is a great location and incredibly beautiful... I saw two blue heron and an egret on our lake this summer. The woods are dotted with spruce, pine and birch...very northern feel. Almost like a Vermont forest.

The economy is very poor. Not many jobs at all, many businesses have gone under.

[NepaJames8602]

It is a great location and incredibly beautiful... I saw two blue heron and an egret on our lake this summer. The woods are dotted with spruce, pine and birch...very northern feel. Almost like a Vermont forest.

The economy is very poor. Not many jobs at all, many businesses have gone under.

 

Sorry my friend, I meant to say local "economy" not climate haha.

 

The local climate is magnificent indeed, I've been up that way a few times. Hell, all of Nepa is beautiful.

[NepaJames8602]

I believe there is a lot of farms in Wayne county, but quite honestly, I can't imagine too much more to offer. I know the jail is a big thing, and local government jobs within Pike and Wayne county. But yes, this is a low income area in general with a very poor economy. The eastern half of Pike county where I live, is all transplants from Nyc or NJ. I grew up and lived in North Jersey until I was 12. My parents moved out here for the cheaper cost of living and to get away from that suburban feel. I fell in love with the area and never left. Unfortunately it's a trade off though, if you want to live here you're going to have to commute to make real money. Cheaper living, less population and living in the beauty of nature, yet everything is twice as far and there is ZERO local economy.

[nzucker]

Lived in Highland Mills for the winter of 02/03 and it was beyond impressive. That was the yr when I realized how much of a snow magnet that area really is. Im sure elevation and lat/lon play a factor but man its a snow weenies dream lol..

02/03 winter was around 95" there

09/10 winter was 88-90" there

Wow I had like 62" in 02-03 and 68" in 09-10. Those numbers are impressive. I'd love to see Dobbs break 100" but it may not be possible. Highest on record is 90" in 60-61 and 82" in 95-96. Hard to get more as we never have wire to wire winters at this latitude and near the coast.

[nzucker]

I believe there is a lot of farms in Wayne county, but quite honestly, I can't imagine too much more to offer. I know the jail is a big thing, and local government jobs within Pike and Wayne county. But yes, this is a low income area in general with a very poor economy. The eastern half of Pike county where I live, is all transplants from Nyc or NJ. I grew up and lived in North Jersey until I was 12. My parents moved out here for the cheaper cost of living and to get away from that suburban feel. I fell in love with the area and never left. Unfortunately it's a trade off though, if you want to live here you're going to have to commute to make real money. Cheaper living, less population and living in the beauty of nature, yet everything is twice as far and there is ZERO local economy.

It's hard to make a lot of money up there but the cost of living is so much lower. I barely make ends meet on a teacher's salary in NYC but I saved up a ton of money when I taught in rural New Hampshire in the Monadnock Mountains despite a salary that was $15,000 lower. It's really about how you spend, if you invest wisely, and living within your means. I spend 90% of my paycheck here but saved 75-80% of a much smaller check in New Hampshire. When you're surrounded by woods, you don't spend much. When you're surrounded by places to spend money like NYC, it goes fast. I took a weekend job to live comfortably and have extra cash but it kills my free time.

Living in a rural area is a trade off. You don't get to see the independent movies, go to Broadway shows, eat every type of ethnic food imaginable. But you get to know the ecosystem and landscape around you... The seasons, the trees, and of course the weather. Your snow shines bright in the moonlight among spruces and pines, mine is dirtied instantly by cars and commuters. You trust your neighbors and surroundings. You breathe clean air. So there's more to be said than just dollars.

[chietanen]

Down to -3 here, pretty impressive considering the winds, cloud cover, and bare ground. Was checking out obs across the state and parts of Central NY are in the low -20's (near Norwich and near Syracuse).

Check that - skies actually pretty clear now!