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September 2013 General Discussion


daddylonglegs

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There's barely any development around DTW compared to many of the other major airports in the US. A couple of sub divisions and farm fields isn't noteworthy compared to industrial parks and gridded street developments elsewhere.

What could make a difference is a sea of concrete tarmacs and new runways near a thermometer that might not have been around in the 60s.

And on another note, the warmer overnight lows are already built into the climate normals. It should be several degrees colder at FNT than DTW each night.

It has to be the concrete. I cant think of anything else. As you said, it is not THAT built up near DTW. Tons of fields and wooded areas right by the airport.

 

I was just looking over the temp comparisons for DTW and DET.

 

In the early days of DTW used to average between 0-0.5F warmer than DET for high temps but 2-3F COLDER for low temps. The average yearly temp has always averaged 0.8-1.3F colder at DTW than DET (entirely due to lows, as highs even averaged a tad warmer than DET). Even the most recent set of normals, 1981-2010, has DTW and DETs yearly temp averaging identical high temps but DTW averaging 1.7F colder for low temps, so yearly temp 0.9F colder at DTW.

 

YET in recent years thats is NOT the case. Perhaps its where they moved the ASOS  by the new terminal? In 2012, DTWs highs averaged 1.0F higher than DET and their lows just 0.2F colder than DET, so yearly temp was 0.3F WARMER at DTW than DET (that NEVER EVER used to happen..NEVER). So far in 2013...through August....DTWs highs are averaging 0.7F warmer than DETs...but the lows are ALSO averaging WARMER...by 0.3F!! It doesnt sound like much, but it is simply incredible to look at the climate history, as well as locations of the two stations, and see that DTW is actually averaging WARMER low temps than DET. Forty years ago, on any clear, calm night (or humid summer night) you could count on DTW's lows being 7-10F colder than DET. My how times have changed....

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It has to be the concrete. I cant think of anything else. As you said, it is not THAT built up near DTW. Tons of fields and wooded areas right by the airport.

I was just looking over the temp comparisons for DTW and DET.

In the early days of DTW used to average between 0-0.5F warmer than DET for high temps but 2-3F COLDER for low temps. The average yearly temp has always averaged 0.8-1.3F colder at DTW than DET (entirely due to lows, as highs even averaged a tad warmer than DET). Even the most recent set of normals, 1981-2010, has DTW and DETs yearly temp averaging identical high temps but DTW averaging 1.7F colder for low temps, so yearly temp 0.9F colder at DTW.

YET in recent years thats is NOT the case. Perhaps its where they moved the ASOS by the new terminal? In 2012, DTWs highs averaged 1.0F higher than DET and their lows just 0.2F colder than DET, so yearly temp was 0.3F WARMER at DTW than DET (that NEVER EVER used to happen..NEVER). So far in 2013...through August....DTWs highs are averaging 0.7F warmer than DETs...but the lows are ALSO averaging WARMER...by 0.3F!! It doesnt sound like much, but it is simply incredible to look at the climate history, as well as locations of the two stations, and see that DTW is actually averaging WARMER low temps than DET. Forty years ago, on any clear, calm night (or humid summer night) you could count on DTW's lows being 7-10F colder than DET. My how times have changed....

DET probably has lost much of its UHI effect over years of decline. Google earth the city of detroit and you can see plenty of open fields and plots.
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It has to be the concrete. I cant think of anything else. As you said, it is not THAT built up near DTW. Tons of fields and wooded areas right by the airport.

I was just looking over the temp comparisons for DTW and DET.

In the early days of DTW used to average between 0-0.5F warmer than DET for high temps but 2-3F COLDER for low temps. The average yearly temp has always averaged 0.8-1.3F colder at DTW than DET (entirely due to lows, as highs even averaged a tad warmer than DET). Even the most recent set of normals, 1981-2010, has DTW and DETs yearly temp averaging identical high temps but DTW averaging 1.7F colder for low temps, so yearly temp 0.9F colder at DTW.

YET in recent years thats is NOT the case. Perhaps its where they moved the ASOS by the new terminal? In 2012, DTWs highs averaged 1.0F higher than DET and their lows just 0.2F colder than DET, so yearly temp was 0.3F WARMER at DTW than DET (that NEVER EVER used to happen..NEVER). So far in 2013...through August....DTWs highs are averaging 0.7F warmer than DETs...but the lows are ALSO averaging WARMER...by 0.3F!! It doesnt sound like much, but it is simply incredible to look at the climate history, as well as locations of the two stations, and see that DTW is actually averaging WARMER low temps than DET. Forty years ago, on any clear, calm night (or humid summer night) you could count on DTW's lows being 7-10F colder than DET. My how times have changed....

DET probably has lost much of its UHI effect over years of decline. Google earth the city of detroit and you can see plenty of open fields and plots.

The city has lost people, but the structures still remain for the most part. Go to wundermap and watch the PWSs in SE Michigan, its quite obvious the entire eastern Oakland and all of Wayne county are almost always warmer. Wundermaps network and historical features are absolutely amazing.

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DET probably has lost much of its UHI effect over years of decline. Google earth the city of detroit and you can see plenty of open fields and plots.

 

Good point. Me and michsnowfreak discussed that before about DET.

 

Pretty nice light show. It's pitch black out. Lights went out a couple times but came back on.

 

Excellent storm!!! Officially the best of the season so far.

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Also remember when a city has building booms developers tended to clear cut plots rather than work around existing vegetation. With 70 years or so passing these clear cut areas show true signs of reverting back to the wild. Trees are bigger, asphalt is grown in with green in the cracks and the heating element is turned down from the sun reduction of heating man made materials.

 

Excited for the heat of the last few days to be gone. Working outside was no fun.

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Also remember when a city has building booms developers tended to clear cut plots rather than work around existing vegetation. With 70 years or so passing these clear cut areas show true signs of reverting back to the wild. Trees are bigger, asphalt is grown in with green in the cracks and the heating element is turned down from the sun reduction of heating man made materials.

Excited for the heat of the last few days to be gone. Working outside was no fun.

This is a good point. The UHI is far more real by DTW than DET. Areas near and around DET have reverted to open fields and woodlots. DTW also having consistant jet engines belching out heated gases almost 24/7, something that DET now lacks.

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This is a good point. The UHI is far more real by DTW than DET. Areas near and around DET have reverted to open fields and woodlots. DTW also having consistant jet engines belching out heated gases almost 24/7, something that DET now lacks.

No. Look at 2 a mile radius of DTW and DET. There are leaps and bounds more vegetation and greenspace around DTW. Just because a few blocks of houses have been removed near DET doesn't negate the UHI.

The area around DTW is one of the least built up areas of Wayne County.

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I have it saved on my PC, but I'll post a compilation of wunderground maps I saved from 4 am days in the month of June. DTW runways are visible several hundred miles into space, its hard to comprehend how much concrete there is at DTW, but its square miles of pavement.

Anyone have the exact spot of the ASOS at DTW?

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Made it to 96 yesterday so back to back highs of 96. Pretty impressive for this time of year.

Raw model temps have us flirting with sub 40 Saturday morning and MOS is just a little warmer. Given LAF's propensity to radiate well, I wonder if we might pull it off. The ground has really dried out which could help the cause.

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Just about to under go the late wind shift to the north east. Sitting at 74°/59°

 

Probably a bit too cool, but I'd take mid 40s!

 

 

 

That model shows scattered areas of upper 30s around northern IL Sat morning, including here. 

 

Up to 80 here, but with the dew now down to 49 it doesn't feel warm at all. 

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