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Winter 2013-14 Discussion


Hoosier

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The majority of our garbage winters had such rosey early predictions. If I had a dollar for everytime a refernce to 07-08 was made in a winter prediction I would be sitting good.

There has only BEEN one garbage winter since 2007-08. Like I said in my last post, pull outlooks from the 1990s, and mild winter predictions ruled the roost...because THAT was the trend.....just as outlooks now have snowy forecasts ruling because that is the current trend.

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There has only BEEN one garbage winter since 2007-08. Like I said in my last post, pull outlooks from the 1990s, and mild winter predictions ruled the roost...because THAT was the trend.....just as outlooks now have snowy forecasts ruling because that is the current trend.

 

Since all of December was trash, it was a big blemish on last winter. The Christmas miracle snow saved the month a little bit, but almost all winter sports in the midwest were wasted on that month. 

 

I do agree with you on snowy trends, over the last 13 years it has been common place to exceed annual snow totals by a hefty margin. I just hope 2010-2011 wasn't the end of that trend, the last 2 winters were very 1990's like, except March and April.

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Its almost a little scary how many sources cite that some sort of a harsh winter is on the way (be it cold, snow, or both) for this area. From the feel-good signs (NH snow/ice cover is WAY ahead of the last many years, the arctic sea ice extent was good this summer, enso is neutral to ever so slightly neg)...to the old-school stuff (my winter-hating boss is freaking out because she can't remember a year when her oak had so many acorns, the farmers almanac predicting a very harsh winter)...its all the makings of being an epic winter. I am starting to have a real good feeling. BUT high expectations can lead to a lot of dissappointment too. All I know is that im starting to get ready for SNOW :)

 

Haha at the acorns story. I noticed trees in general are loaded/were loaded with seeds this Autumn. A lot of good indicators to a great winter ahead. Trying to figure out where the ridge and troughs set up is a bit more complicated. 

I noticed that the CFS is parking the Aleutian Low for some time to come into the DJF period with a strong +PNA, -NAO.

 

I dont' see any strong indication of a zonal flow this winter, especially since the ONI index staying near normal. If anything we might revert back to our late winter spring pattern. I'm about ready for snow as well!  :snowing:

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Since all of December was trash, it was a big blemish on last winter. The Christmas miracle snow saved the month a little bit, but almost all winter sports in the midwest were wasted on that month. 

 

I do agree with you on snowy trends, over the last 13 years it has been common place to exceed annual snow totals by a hefty margin. I just hope 2010-2011 wasn't the end of that trend, the last 2 winters were very 1990's like, except March and April.

 

+1

 

2011-2012 seemed like such fluke. I think it pretty much surprised everybody. I hope we can actually get a front-loaded winter for once.

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Haha at the acorns story. I noticed trees in general are loaded/were loaded with seeds this Autumn. A lot of good indicators to a great winter ahead. Trying to figure out where the ridge and troughs set up is a bit more complicated. 

I noticed that the CFS is parking the Aleutian Low for some time to come into the DJF period with a strong +PNA, -NAO.

 

I dont' see any strong indication of a zonal flow this winter, especially since the ONI index staying near normal. If anything we might revert back to our late winter spring pattern. I'm about ready for snow as well!  :snowing:

 

Looking at the 8-10 day mean plots (penn state e-wall, ECMWF/GFS comparison) I can see a trough in the Great Lakes, with negative height anomalies over the Arctic and Greenland. That's kind of a weird one, although believable.

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The models really show a healthy, consistent supply of cold shots developing in the arctic and pushing southward. This could be a really promising year (of course, dependent on the jet, some people may miss out) but it's something that seems to have been lacking the last few seasons... it seems like the last 2 winters it took forever for real cold to build up north, and when it would come down, it would vanish entirely altogether and we'd have to wait for it to rebuild. Prospects seem decent for the supply of arctic air, I'm impressed with how early it's getting started up there. But perhaps after 2 mild starts, this is simply "normal"

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Haha at the acorns story. I noticed trees in general are loaded/were loaded with seeds this Autumn. A lot of good indicators to a great winter ahead. Trying to figure out where the ridge and troughs set up is a bit more complicated. 

I noticed that the CFS is parking the Aleutian Low for some time to come into the DJF period with a strong +PNA, -NAO.

 

I dont' see any strong indication of a zonal flow this winter, especially since the ONI index staying near normal. If anything we might revert back to our late winter spring pattern. I'm about ready for snow as well!  :snowing:

 

Any low parked in that spot seems to screw us.

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I'd rather not see all these hyped forecasts because 2011-12 haunts me for life... so much hype and what a massive dud that winter was! It hurts so much more when you're anticipating greatness.

 

I think we will have a less delayed winter, which is clear and not hard to go out on a limb on given what's happening right now, which is likely more "normal" but nothing outstanding by any stretch. 

 

My prediction overall would be more "normal" than the last couple years (colder, maybe a bit snowier) but nothing too extraordinary. I'm happy with normal after the non-winter 2011/12 and tardy 2012/2013 season.

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Haha at the acorns story. I noticed trees in general are loaded/were loaded with seeds this Autumn. A lot of good indicators to a great winter ahead. Trying to figure out where the ridge and troughs set up is a bit more complicated. 

I noticed that the CFS is parking the Aleutian Low for some time to come into the DJF period with a strong +PNA, -NAO.

 

I dont' see any strong indication of a zonal flow this winter, especially since the ONI index staying near normal. If anything we might revert back to our late winter spring pattern. I'm about ready for snow as well!  :snowing:

 

I'd much rather a -PNA, which would offer more potential for some impressive cutters.

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You need sufficient blocking for that to happen though right?

 

Not necessarily.  A -PNA is likely to pop a eastern ridge and any surface low pressure system that can form underneath the western trough from CO south to the panhandle of OK will ride the western edge of the ridge up into the lakes area.  A nice mature surface cyclone can move slow enough to dump large amounts of snow.  In terms of blocking, that would be a bonus, and would require a extreme west based blocking pattern that could set up north of the lakes but south of Hudson Bay allowing said storm to stall out.

 

By the way there is a new site that you may want to try for ECMWF output including snowfall and SB cape.  I like the idea in that the site is set up to only allow ECMWF output and is reasonably priced, as other model info ie: the GFS, Nam, and GEM is free, you may want to use it to supplement your forecast.  I have used the free trail period and found it useful. but I am waiting until something interesting is on my doorstep to jump into the monthly subscription.

 

http://www.eurowx.com/

 

Give it a shot, you may like it.

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Not necessarily.  A -PNA is likely to pop a eastern ridge and any surface low pressure system that can form underneath the western trough from CO south to the panhandle of OK will ride the western edge of the ridge up into the lakes area.  A nice mature surface cyclone can move slow enough to dump large amounts of snow.  In terms of blocking, that would be a bonus, and would require a extreme west based blocking pattern that could set up north of the lakes but south of Hudson Bay allowing said storm to stall out.

 

By the way there is a new site that you may want to try for ECMWF output including snowfall and SB cape.  I like the idea in that the site is set up to only allow ECMWF output and is reasonably priced, as other model info ie: the GFS, Nam, and GEM is free, you may want to use it to supplement your forecast.  I have used the free trail period and found it useful. but I am waiting until something interesting is on my doorstep to jump into the monthly subscription.

 

http://www.eurowx.com/

 

Give it a shot, you may like it.

 

Thanks for the explanation and link! I'll check it out.

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Tonight's run of the GFS is much further north with the Halloween storm, and has come closer to the 10/22 12z run of the GEM.  I believe it's still a little bit to fast in not allowing enough cold air into the system.  Best guess is that future runs will move further west.  This could be very fun to watch.

 

It does look fun to watch!

 

P6_GZ_D5_PN_168_0000.gif

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