Hitman Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 True, I was a little wrong on the timeline, it was more 70s and 80s. But I found this interesting paper that defends lawyers but also acknowledges without new laws in place litigators would've sued the industry into the Stone Age. It definitely showed me some stuff I didn't know.http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=iplj CONCLUSIONS Although the propensity of Americans for filing lawsuits dealt the ski industry a real scare during the late 1970's and early 1980's, the sport appears to have emerged from the litigation mogul field with plenty of life left in its knees. Today, the industry looks forward to holding the line on lift ticket prices, opening new extreme terrain to the public, and attracting a whole new generation of adventurers to what may qualify as the world's most exciting outdoor sport. Whether the industry meets those goals remains to be seen, but the opportunity to do so has been established. The issue remains, however, as to the culpability of litigators as prime instigators of skiing's dark decade. Simply put, personal in- jury lawyers did what they could to exploit the ski industry as a steady source of injured plaintiffs. Absent legislative intervention, litigators and their clients likely would have sued the ski industry back into the Stone Age-with unscrupulous practitioners using the usual amount of fraudulent claims to accomplish the devastation. Fortunately, the ski industry was able to protect itself with a suc- cessful effort, led by its own attorneys, to have equitably protective legislation enacted throughout the country. In fact, ski litigation in- directly produced some positive results for both skiers and ski areas. For instance, the adversarial system led to enactment of laws under which ski areas receive strong protections, but only if they exercise due care in the performance of their duties. Thus these laws provide ski areas with powerful incentives to ensure the safety of skiers. Litigation and legislation have likewise led to development and circulation of a skiers' code of conduct and responsibility. This list of rules concerning skiing safety and courtesy is posted conspicu- ously at nearly all ski areas in North America. It educates new ski- ers and reminds experienced ones that it is their responsibility to ski with care.76 That code of responsibility has been augmented, on rare occasions, in Colorado since 1989 by criminal prosecutions of grossly reckless skiers who cause grave injuries to their fellow sportsmen. In the final analysis, the public relations "face plant"78 in the snow that attorneys have taken over their alleged role in causing damage to the ski industry has been-for the most part-unde- served. Surely insurance companies must absorb a substantial por- tion of blame for having caused the upheaval. What is more, the positive outcome of the entire era serves to mitigate remaining guilt that might have collectively accrued to the bar. In light of the tenuous nature of the above conclusion, however, the following quotes are provided as food for though for all attor- neys (especially those that ski): Said Abraham Lincoln, Springfield lawyer: "Never stir up liti- gation. A worse man can scarcely be found than one who does this." Said Glen Plake, Mohawked extreme skier extraordinaire: "Ski fast, don't fall." (Words to live. by, if performed with requisite care). What prompted the protective legislation was a case Sunday v Stratton. That was in 1977. The case was used to scare the legislatures to get these laws passed all over the country. I don't believe there ever was any real litigation "crisis". Only the fear of what "could" happen, in no small part due to insurance companies making excuses for raising rates so they could make more money. There's a reason warren buffet is big into the insurance industry. It's a great investment. Especially since you can blame the lawyers when u want to raise prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 What prompted the protective legislation was a case Sunday v Stratton. That was in 1977. The case was used to scare the legislatures to get these laws passed all over the country. I don't believe there ever was any real litigation "crisis". Only the fear of what "could" happen, in no small part due to insurance companies making excuses for raising rates so they could make more money. There's a reason warren buffet is big into the insurance industry. It's a great investment. Especially since you can blame the lawyers when u want to raise prices.Yeah that paper was really interesting that I found last night...I definitely thought there was more of a lawsuit happy period than the empirical data showed. I'm only in my 20s, so stuff that happened prior to like the late 90s in the ski industry, I go by general opinion. And like that paper wrote in the opening page or two, the media didn't do lawyers any favor and of course I've seen Blizzard of Ahhs where Greg Stump blasts lawyers for changing the ski experience. I remember several Ski Magazine articles from the late 90s on the issue. It is definitely engrained in the industry that it was lawyers that changed things, but I agree with you, that sounds like a good scapegoat for insurance companies. The article also brings up a good point though...lawyers get blamed for it as a group, but what should be specified is that it's the ambulance chasing personal injury lawyers looking for anyway for a big payday that were the fear of the ski industry....and the fear of most industries. Like the billboards you see that say, "have you been injured doing anything at all? Please contact us as you may be entitled to money." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Sugarbush with 18 trails open today, and 18 holes of golf included on a $50 ticket...my marketing mind loves that. What a cool parallel and season transition with the 18 trails + 18 holes thing. Nicely done. Jay Peak still leading the east with 6 lifts open, haha. 29 trails though is impressive. Killington down to 10 trails now, but I'm really surprised they are closing mid-week. Well not surprised from a business standpoint, but surprised because the seem to always do daily operation as long as possible. Odd to think that the most remote resort in VT (Jay Peak) will be the only place open in the state on Monday. In fact, with Sugarloaf closing on Sunday, will Jay be the only eastern area open this week? Jay's definitely making a push to be known for spring skiing and riding now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Yeah that paper was really interesting that I found last night...I definitely thought there was more of a lawsuit happy period than the empirical data showed. I'm only in my 20s, so stuff that happened prior to like the late 90s in the ski industry, I go by general opinion. And like that paper wrote in the opening page or two, the media didn't do lawyers any favor and of course I've seen Blizzard of Ahhs where Greg Stump blasts lawyers for changing the ski experience. I remember several Ski Magazine articles from the late 90s on the issue. It is definitely engrained in the industry that it was lawyers that changed things, but I agree with you, that sounds like a good scapegoat for insurance companies. The article also brings up a good point though...lawyers get blamed for it as a group, but what should be specified is that it's the ambulance chasing personal injury lawyers looking for anyway for a big payday that were the fear of the ski industry....and the fear of most industries. Like the billboards you see that say, "have you been injured doing anything at all? Please contact us as you may be entitled to money." Those ads don't do us any favors. Most are from marketing companies that then sell the phone calls to many different firms. Long story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I love the Blizzard of Ahhhs. Best ski film I have ever seen Also, I just won a Wachusett Gold pass for next season in a raffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittany88 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Sugarbush with 18 trails open today, and 18 holes of golf included on a $50 ticket...my marketing mind loves that. What a cool parallel and season transition with the 18 trails + 18 holes thing. Nicely done. Jay Peak still leading the east with 6 lifts open, haha. 29 trails though is impressive. Killington down to 10 trails now, but I'm really surprised they are closing mid-week. Well not surprised from a business standpoint, but surprised because the seem to always do daily operation as long as possible. Odd to think that the most remote resort in VT (Jay Peak) will be the only place open in the state on Monday. In fact, with Sugarloaf closing on Sunday, will Jay be the only eastern area open this week? Jay's definitely making a push to be known for spring skiing and riding now. Didn't Killington make it to June 1st last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radarman Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Didn't Killington make it to June 1st last year? May 26th, knee deep at the top, free tix for all. What a way to go out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 May 26th, knee deep at the top, free tix for all. What a way to go out Yeah I think they'll keep going this year on weekends potentially. I have to imagine Superstar could hold another weekend after Mothers Day...it's been a cold spring. Do you remember, how late into the season they did daily operations last year on that run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I love the Blizzard of Ahhhs. Best ski film I have ever seen Also, I just won a Wachusett Gold pass for next season in a raffle That sounds like a damn good win, haha. Winning a seasons pass anywhere in a raffle is a sweet deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Area skied: Sugarloaf, MaineDate Skied: May 3rd, from 8:30am - 12:30pmSurface conditions: Spring corn, machine groomed, slush, water holes.Weather: Mix of sun/clouds, 46F at 8:30am - 62F at 12:30pmMy son and I skied at Sugarloaf on Saturday as they still had 39 trails opened and the weather was not nearly as bad as had been forecasted.We started off the day being second chair in line for the Superquad. We got untouched corduroy on Tote-Road which was a mix of wet-groomed corn snow mixed with slushy water holes above Chicken Pitch and then silky smooth corn below. We did this run three times in a row.Next up was Kings-Landing with small bits of groomed snow remaining, but mostly loose corn snow, but nothing too heavy.We followed with a traverse over to Wedge which had soft melted out moguls that made for fun turns, down to groomed snow on Lower winters Way.Skyline Chair:A traverse further on next run brought us to Lower Boomauger which was not all that great with rotten soft snow, many sections of water undermined snow, blowouts and ice. Lombard X-cut is barely hanging on just above the bridge. We followed this down to an un-groomed Boardwalk with heavy cut up slush, but plenty of cover until just above the Double Runner Chair loading area.By now the run out down Candyside was getting narrow in spots and uncomfortably crowded with skiers at times, especially in the last 50' down to the Superquad.We skied Hayburner next with heavy corn snow, but full edge to edge cover. Double Bitter was next with good soft corn moguls on the top and bottom sections, but not so great in the middle, with many bare spots, brush and base ice.We skied into the Stomping Grounds and into the quarter Pipe and over the still tall hits. We ended the day with this last run of our ski-season.Stomping Grounds, Kings Landing and Hayburner:Sugarloaf from the Outdoor Center: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 We took the long way back from Sugarloaf, past Saddleback and into Rangeley, Route 17 and Rumford.We spotted this Moose:Saddleback looked to have skiable snow on about 60% of their trails, even though they are long ago closed for the season: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skivt2 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Basically Kilington only operates Friday-Sunday in May with no grooming except possibly to patch things. Heading out soon but the bumps are huge and rumor has it the top is frozen with sleet falling sporadically. Off and on puring rain at 2000'. We will see how many runs we ski today if that is the case. Everyone we talked to yesterday feels confident that the mountain Can make it until 5/18 no problem. Mother Nature will decide if they are open Memorial Day weekend like last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Great pix and report from the loaf, coventry1971 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skivt2 Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Very enjoyable afternoon skiing in the snow/rain mix at Killington. Those that hiked to the canyon had 2" of fresh snow to ski on. Incredible to have fresh snow to ski on on 4/27 and 5/4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Great posts and pics Coventry1971! My brother and his girls skied Sugarloaf yesterday and today and had a blast. He said this is some of the most terrain he remembers open this late in the season. I've driven 27/16 from N Conway to Sugarloaf several times over the years, one of my favorite drives in New England. Long desolate stretches of road with great scenery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Wow nice pics coventry....The Loaf looks great for May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan76 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Great posts and pics Coventry1971! My brother and his girls skied Sugarloaf yesterday and today and had a blast. He said this is some of the most terrain he remembers open this late in the season. I've driven 27/16 from N Conway to Sugarloaf several times over the years, one of my favorite drives in New England. Long desolate stretches of road with great scenery. Drove From SL to RT2 to 91 and will never take 95 to SL again.You miss boston and portland traffic and all the BS in between. Once you get pass springfield it's open road and nice scenery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebman Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Maan just look at all that snow! Look at all those BARE TREES in early May! I love Vermont so much! My heart will always be at Jay Peak in VT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Maan just look at all that snow! Look at all those BARE TREES in early May! I love Vermont so much! My heart will always be at Jay Peak in VT Jay added 2" more yesterday Jebman and are up to 319" on the season (still below normal though as most of northern VT mountains were, haha). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Drove From SL to RT2 to 91 and will never take 95 to SL again.You miss boston and portland traffic and all the BS in between. Once you get pass springfield it's open road and nice scenery Boston traffic? I assume you drive I-495 (perhaps 295 thru ORH as well) so the only Boston traffic is spillover in the Lowell-to-Lawrence stretch. And Portland only has "traffic" if one compares it to Farmington or Rumford (or maybe Errol, NH.) Route 2 between Gilead and Shelburne can be nasty when icy (and being well shaded, that's most of winter), and I only try east-west travel in NNE when there's no feasible alternative or when one is out for the scenery, which is great. But we all have our preferences. Mast of my friends from Farmington choose the Auburn route (12 stoplights, more tolls) ahead of Augusta when heading south, though Mapquest shows both as taking about the same time. Heard a report this morning of Sugarloaf summit getting 3" yesterday - nice treat for final day skiers/riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 We drove up on friday via I-84-I-290-I-495-I-95 to Gray and then route 4 to 27. Hit rush hour traffic head on right before the Lowell Connector/Route 93 area. The drive up took 5h 30m to do 300 miles. I hate driving on any part of I-495, it seems to have never ending traffic and road construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 We drove up on friday via I-84-I-290-I-495-I-95 to Gray and then route 4 to 27. Hit rush hour traffic head on right before the Lowell Connector/Route 93 area. The drive up took 5h 30m to do 300 miles. I hate driving on any part of I-495, it seems to have never ending traffic and road construction. If 495 is anathema this is moot, but I find I-95 (actually prefer 295 as quicker-shorter-cheaper, but it runs thru PWM)all the way to AUG then 27 the rest of the way to be much easier on the brake pedal (and composure) than all the stop-and-go on Rt 4. Only choke-point between AUG and Farmington is Belgrade Village, and that's little problem in winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Still some nice options for top-to-bottom wall-to-wall cover on Mansfield...as usual the Nosedive glacier seems the healthiest. And awful zoomed in and grainy but trails still look healthy from town today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skivt2 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Still a few more weekends of lift served skiing at Killington. Gotta love it. Longest season in the east. First to open last to close. It's one main reason we are pass holders there. Looking forward to skiing the big bumps on Superstar in the sun on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So, can only ski Saturday this weekend. Opinions about whether it should be Killington, Mt. Washington or stay at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Awful photo but still lots of snow left and a surprising number of skiers and riders out there...alpine touring and split boarding has really changed the game. Allows for a really long season. Instead of going to the gym or going for a run, go skin a 2,000 vertical foot lap in 60-90 minutes and get on with your day. Lots of after-work traffic up there with the long daylight this time of year. Can show up at 6:30pm and still get a nice lap in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So, can only ski Saturday this weekend. Opinions about whether it should be Killington, Mt. Washington or stay at home The reports from Mount Washington have been very good lately...it's prime Rockpile season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Wachusett today https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=4SmlUfxvMIU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Still snowmobiling above 2K in Pittsburg NH area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skivt2 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Superstar was phenomenal this weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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