HIPPYVALLEY Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Hoping to go to Sugarloaf next weekend. Looks like they may be good for 5-10" iabove 2k tonight and we'll see what the rest of the week brings. Due to tomorrows forecast today was Berkshire East's last day. : ( They close end of March, regardless of conditions, due to (I assume) whatever legal/insurance restrictions they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Lurker Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hoping to go to Sugarloaf next weekend. Looks like they may be good for 5-10" iabove 2k tonight and we'll see what the rest of the week brings. Due to tomorrows forecast today was Berkshire East's last day. : ( They close end of March, regardless of conditions, due to (I assume) whatever legal/insurance restrictions they have. It was pretty wet and sticky on Saturday at the beast.. while it would have been nice to see a lot more of a base up there yesterday (some of the trails were downright thin...) Considering they haven't recieved much natural snow in the past month, I think that they did a wonderful job making snow this season. They have invested a lot into their snowmaking capacity recently, and I know that many people were disappointed with what they made. However, from a business standpoint, they couldn't have done a better job, as any snow left at this point would have been money down the drain. Time to head north, I guess..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankaty Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm noticing a trend that whenever conditions are marginal, many mountains will simply report surface conditions as "Machine Groomed." I assume that's code for, "the actual surface conditions are too scary to describe, so we'll acknowledge that we ran a snowcat over it and leave it at that." Another favorite is Machine groomed/Variable (see Mount Snow today), which sounds even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Spring conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm noticing a trend that whenever conditions are marginal, many mountains will simply report surface conditions as "Machine Groomed." I assume that's code for, "the actual surface conditions are too scary to describe, so we'll acknowledge that we ran a snowcat over it and leave it at that." Another favorite is Machine groomed/Variable (see Mount Snow today), which sounds even worse. SnoCountry, which is sort of the clearinghouse for snow conditions reporting, has the following definitions that we follow and you'll see a lot in the Spring. To be honest, variable isn't as bad as most folks think, it just means that there is no primary surface condition that can describe the majority of the conditions. That's what spring conditions is, but just used after March 1. You can have frozen snow up high or in the shade, or packed powder at the summit, frozen granular in the middle, and slush at the base or in the sun. Machine Groomed is just used when the majority of the terrain is groomed and its not necessarily one condition (granular, packed powder, etc). Then the Variable or Spring conditions usually covers the ungroomed terrain and glades. Machine Groomed Snow (MG) - Loose granular snow that has been repeatedly tilled by grooming machines. Some of the snow is granular and has been so pulverized that the crystals are more like powdered sugar, rather than loose granular or packed powder. Occurs only after a warm/freeze cycle or after multiple grooming passes. Variable Conditions (VC) - When no primary surface (70% or more) can be determined, this surface describes a range of surfaces that can be encountered. Spring Conditions (SC) - This term is only used after March 1. This is the spring version of variable conditions. Like variable conditions, this term is used when when no primary surface (70% or more) can be determined, this surface describes a range of surfaces that can be encountered. It is not uncommon for other evidence of spring to be present such as thin and bare spots and discoloration. To be honest, they actually use "Machine Groomed" more out west than we do in the east. Like this is Mammoth Mountain's report today, they have Machine Groomed listed pretty much every day all season long in one of their conditions (primary or secondary). And here's Squaw Valley's report with "Groomed" as a surface as well. Just look around out west and you'll see it in quite a few spots. Its not just something eastern areas use because conditions are bad, its just because there's really no primary surface on 70%+ of the terrain. And often if groomed trails are the only thing open, that's what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Mountain was absolutely empty today...and if you ever want to know what it would be like to have a private ski area? I'd recommend going to any mountain mid-week this time of year. There's a reason a lot of ski areas close due to evaporating skiers instead of evaporating snow. Enjoying some machine groomed snow today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thinking about a day trip up north this weekend if that 4/5 storm cooperates. Need it to a cool a bit. But if it can give some snow, then conditions will be amazing this weekend with the amount of snow already out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thinking about a day trip up north this weekend if that 4/5 storm cooperates. Need it to a cool a bit. But if it can give some snow, then conditions will be amazing this weekend with the amount of snow already out there. Nice. Yeah get out there as this time is the most enjoyable skiing/riding, especially if the snow is great. Deepest base depths of the season and fewest skiers of the season. It really is a shame more people don't go this time of year, it would give a lot more incentive for areas to stay open. Where in the mid-winter time frame you are counting skiers mid-week in the thousands (even with considerably worse conditions at times), this time of year they are counted in the hundreds...and the conditions and terrain open is usually better than a lot of times in December or January. Vote with your feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Nice. Yeah get out there as this time is the most enjoyable skiing/riding, especially if the snow is great. Deepest base depths of the season and fewest skiers of the season. It really is a shame more people don't go this time of year, it would give a lot more incentive for areas to stay open. Where in the mid-winter time frame you are counting skiers mid-week in the thousands (even with considerably worse conditions at times), this time of year they are counted in the hundreds...and the conditions and terrain open is usually better than a lot of times in December or January. Vote with your feet. shhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Nice. Yeah get out there as this time is the most enjoyable skiing/riding, especially if the snow is great. Deepest base depths of the season and fewest skiers of the season. It really is a shame more people don't go this time of year, it would give a lot more incentive for areas to stay open. Where in the mid-winter time frame you are counting skiers mid-week in the thousands (even with considerably worse conditions at times), this time of year they are counted in the hundreds...and the conditions and terrain open is usually better than a lot of times in December or January. Vote with your feet. Spring skiing in New England...one of the best kept secrets. It doesn't work every year if we get a really cruddy March, but more often than not, you'll find the bets conditions in March and not in months like January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Spring skiing in New England...one of the best kept secrets. It doesn't work every year if we get a really cruddy March, but more often than not, you'll find the bets conditions in March and not in months like January. deep depths,warm sun,soft turns, hero snow. Shhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Lurker Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 When and where are we headed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankaty Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 SnoCountry, which is sort of the clearinghouse for snow conditions reporting, has the following definitions that we follow and you'll see a lot in the Spring. To be honest, variable isn't as bad as most folks think, it just means that there is no primary surface condition that can describe the majority of the conditions. That's what spring conditions is, but just used after March 1. You can have frozen snow up high or in the shade, or packed powder at the summit, frozen granular in the middle, and slush at the base or in the sun. Machine Groomed is just used when the majority of the terrain is groomed and its not necessarily one condition (granular, packed powder, etc). Then the Variable or Spring conditions usually covers the ungroomed terrain and glades. Machine Groomed Snow (MG) - Loose granular snow that has been repeatedly tilled by grooming machines. Some of the snow is granular and has been so pulverized that the crystals are more like powdered sugar, rather than loose granular or packed powder. Occurs only after a warm/freeze cycle or after multiple grooming passes. Variable Conditions (VC) - When no primary surface (70% or more) can be determined, this surface describes a range of surfaces that can be encountered. Spring Conditions (SC) - This term is only used after March 1. This is the spring version of variable conditions. Like variable conditions, this term is used when when no primary surface (70% or more) can be determined, this surface describes a range of surfaces that can be encountered. It is not uncommon for other evidence of spring to be present such as thin and bare spots and discoloration. To be honest, they actually use "Machine Groomed" more out west than we do in the east. The issue with "machine groomed" in my view, at least the way it is typically used in S VT, is that it seldom gives me any additional information about surface conditions beyond what I already know to be true almost every day. Most S VT mountains groom the majority of their trails daily and provide a grooming report to show the specifics. So, they're not really doing anything differently on MG days except declining to describe the surface conditions any further. In practice, it seems that on powder or PP days, they describe the conditions as P/PP, and on most other days (except in spring), they just say MG, even though they are not doing substantially more grooming than they do on the PP days. In current usage, it seems to me that the MG moniker is primarily a substitute for what used to be described as LG/FG. No doubt, it's extremely challenging to describe conditions mountain-wide with just a couple of descriptors. In fact, I would say that most days, even many very good ones, technically fall into the MG/variable definition. It just doesn't seem that helpful in that it either becomes so broad as to not give any insight into the day's conditions or it just becomes a euphemism for groomed frozen granular (which was in turn frequently a euphemism for icy). While the snow report is very useful for snow amounts and a snapshot of conditions, online weather/skiing forums have become more important in trip planning for me as they contain detailed trip reports and near real-time posts in a format that allow for more in-depth reporting of conditions. They also include reporting on trees and bumps, which is most important to me and rarely gets much press in the official reports. It's still an inexact science as one skier's "edgeable hardpack" is another skier's "frictionless ceramic incline." A bit ironically, even though spring conditions are highly variable, I find it to be one of the most predictable and highest quality skiing experiences. As long as the air temp and sun exposure reach the magic thresholds to soften the corn, much of the day is going to be heavenly. By the way, thanks so much for offering an insider's insight on this forum. It's extremely helpful and enlightening. Also, Stowe's snow reporting is among the best in the business as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 lol frictionless ceramic incline.... had a lot of those lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Isn't it easy to figure out conditions by looking at 24 hr wx data and forecasts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Isn't it easy to figure out conditions by looking at 24 hr wx data and forecasts? Snarky answer: If you can account for 2000' of changing layers of air temp and humidity and sun angle and how it affects each individual trail/exposure and also how the slope was groomed and skier traffic, it's easy. Nice answer: Easier in winter with uniformly below freezing temps and low sun angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Lurker Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Snarky answer: If you can account for 2000' of changing layers of air temp and humidity and sun angle and how it affects each individual trail/exposure and also how the slope was groomed and skier traffic, it's easy. Nice answer: Easier in winter with uniformly below freezing temps and low sun angle. Right... And no ski report can accurately describe the conditions on every trail, at every time of the day. It's spring. Expect fast and firm conditions in the morning. It should soften up, the time of that depends on elevation, temps, sunlight, skiers traffic, etc... There, here's your ski report for every day from now till close. Of course, there might be a few more powder days, and that may throw off my ski report. If it is cold and white and you can make tracks in it, ski it! Everything else is just semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 April 1st, seriously? wow what an awesome video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Heard Sugarloaf has even more snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Heard Sugarloaf has even more snow. While most locations saw rain over the weekend, we were nearly all snow, with a total of 10 inches from Saturday night through Monday morning. Almost all of our terrain is open, including Burnt Mountain, Brackett Basin, and the Backside Snowfields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Snarky answer: If you can account for 2000' of changing layers of air temp and humidity and sun angle and how it affects each individual trail/exposure and also how the slope was groomed and skier traffic, it's easy. Nice answer: Easier in winter with uniformly below freezing temps and low sun angle. you won't find that in a 10 character conditions report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toller65 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Heard Sugarloaf has even more snow. Sugarloaf: The "King of Spring". Headed up for the weekend, hoping for at least a little frozen precip Fri night/Sat morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Sugarloaf: The "King of Spring". Headed up for the weekend, hoping for at least a little frozen precip Fri night/Sat morning. They should be good for at least a few inches on the front end of that system. Probably a net gain there, but there could be a bit of sleet or icing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Snarky answer: If you can account for 2000' of changing layers of air temp and humidity and sun angle and how it affects each individual trail/exposure and also how the slope was groomed and skier traffic, it's easy. Nice answer: Easier in winter with uniformly below freezing temps and low sun angle. I would love to be more "wordy" in conditions reporting but it gets difficult... talking with some of our groomers the other morning on the radio one said, "well right now it sort of depends on the time of night the trail was groomed, the exact elevation and temperature at that specific location when it was groomed and after groomed." Another groomer commented, "It doesn't sort of depend on that, it entirely depends on those variables." Haha, I'm fascinated by snow and the transformations that it under-goes with various weather variables. This time of the year though after 150 days of essentially "snow management" I find myself waking up in the middle of the night, checking the temperatures and knowing how the crystals are evolving, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Isn't it easy to figure out conditions by looking at 24 hr wx data and forecasts? Yes and no... you have to have a good idea of what the current conditions and snow quality is. Say the next 24 hours is going to be warming above freezing after it snowed 6" the day before. Will the snow be sticky tomorrow? Do you do more grooming to avoid suction-cup-like ski surface on trails that weren't machine rolled? Or will the new snow warm up and ski great without being clumpy? It all depends on what type of snow just fell. If it was upslope fluff with big fat flakes/crystals... its going to get sticky and clumpy very fast. Those large arms on upslope dendrites, as they warm up and get wet, are just going to grab onto every thing they can, including the base of your skis unless you have the perfect wax. Now if the 6" the day before was more graupel and rimed needle flakes, and a very dense snow (not necessarily wet snow, just dense snow), that snow is going to ski phenomenally even when it warms up. The convective upslope graupel and rimed needles will not grab hold of your ski bases like upslope fluff will when it warms up, because of flake size. In fact, the rimed icy coating on graupel will ski super-smooth as it moistens, similar to corn. Either that or we are just so into this stuff we look way too hard into it...and most casual skiers couldn't care less, haha. But this is what you do when you put together a bunch of guys really into snow and skiing together for a winter and tell them to create the best ski surface they can. You can get really into the crystals and how they'll evolve with the upcoming weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 And you know it is spring-time in northern Vermont when... the local girls start dressing up. I love the looks on tourists faces when a Winnie-the-Pooh just dusts them on the steeps, haha. People are like, what the heck just happened? Synchronized skiing with pooh bear and tigger too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Like Mike Pro Lurker said if its white its skiable.beautiful conditions in Maine damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Would have been better if they had Eeyore and Piglet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 While most locations saw rain over the weekend, we were nearly all snow, with a total of 10 inches from Saturday night through Monday morning. Almost all of our terrain is open, including Burnt Mountain, Brackett Basin, and the Backside Snowfields. [/size] I own a condo at Sugarloaf, ski there every weekend and can report fantastic conditions across the mountain. Brackett basin glades, classic New England mogul runs like Powder Keg and Bubblecuffer, and the backside snowfields are full of snow and should not to be missed this Spring. Sugarloafers endure pretty cold and windy conditions all year and we are rewarded in Spring. Come see for yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I own a condo at Sugarloaf, ski there every weekend and can report fantastic conditions across the mountain. Brackett basin glades, classic New England mogul runs like Powder Keg and Bubblecuffer, and the backside snowfields are full of snow and should not to be missed this Spring. Sugarloafers endure pretty cold and windy conditions all year and we are rewarded in Spring. Come see for yourself!can I stay at your condo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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