The 2013-2014 Ski Season Thread

[Quakertown needs snow]

Congrats North!

 

Blue Mt. PA today, probably the last good ski day of the season here

 

Double blacks rating is a joke at Blue. 

[MarkO]

I wouldn't go to MRG on a Saturday. I've done it, but it was long ago. But a mid week ticket for $55 can be a great value. Stowe is a great mountain, but the last time I was there it was close to $100 for a weekend ticket. I'd do it more often if it was closer, but for me it's not only a steep ticket price, it's a long a$$ ride for a day trip. Stowe is a week or weekend trip for the wealthy. They really don't care to cater to the penny pinchers, lol. That's Sunday River's job. 

 

Boyne is doing the right thing. Loon offers great skiing, yeah it's pricey and crowded on a Saturday, but I'll hit it early/late season for great snow conditions. Waterville could learn a lot, maybe Boyne will buy them out from Sununu. 

[MarkO]

I only paid full price one time this year and I'm on day 23. I could have saved $15 by picking up a ticket at the local community center, but I had accidentally left my skis at the local mountain 3 days earlier (total idiot move) so I was jsut happy to see my skis still sitting there. 

 

There are online deals, Holiday deals, weekday deals, 2 for 's Temperature Tuesdays... but I buy a handfull of tickets from a guy on Craigslist who is in the industry. We get about a 30% discount and have been doing this for years. 

 

But nothing beats the Campton Mountain deal of $10. It's a tiny mountain, but it's only a half mile from my cabin. This year has been phenomenal with the natural snow. The kids and I were skiing in the trees. 

[MarkO]

Anyway, here's a cool comparison I made...

 

March 2012 had a temperature departure of +10.4 at Morrisville-Stowe Airport with an average high of 50.5F and an average low of 27.5F.

 

March 2014 is actually more impressive in the opposite direction, with a departure of -12.4 so far, and an average high of 30.1F and an average low of 0.3F. 

 

So this month's average high temperature has been in the same ballpark as the average low temperature in March 2012, lol.  Note the difference in snow depth at the snowmaking valve house and the trail sign.

 

 

The perspective isn't exactly the same, but holy $hit that's some serious snow pack. Looks to be a good 6+' deep. Does Stowe have a set closing date? If not, how late do think you will stay open? 

 

I once skied Tucks on July 4th in '96 (I think). We were supposed to ski Memorial Day weekend but the avalanche danger was either high or extreme, so we postponed. I think Mt. Washington recorded 92" of snow in May alone that year.

[powderfreak]

Yeah it's even a haul from Hartford.  A couple lift rides and 5 minutes in a bar next to a ski area on the weekend I can tell you exactly what the main markets are for a ski area. 

 

I almost never see Boston people at Mount Snow or Stratton - it's funny how the regions are so "segregated". I've only been skiing in NH once... and I don't really know anyone from home or around here who ever heads to NH over VT. 

 

Haha yeah it is segregated.  I think the issue in S.VT is from Boston its a biatch to get to...there's really no easy or direct way, while up here they can do the I-93 to I-89 and its a pretty direct diagonal route through New England. 

 

Honestly I don't know many folks that ski in NH period, lol.  For whatever reason, I know folks that ski/live in Maine and folks in VT, but really don't know or hear much about the NH ski areas.  Even in online ski forums that I sometimes check out, folks post trip reports from VT and ME areas a lot, but not much comes out of NH unless its the Presidentials in the Spring like Tucks or something.

[powderfreak]

The perspective isn't exactly the same, but holy $hit that's some serious snow pack. Looks to be a good 6+' deep. Does Stowe have a set closing date? If not, how late do think you will stay open? 

 

I once skied Tucks on July 4th in '96 (I think). We were supposed to ski Memorial Day weekend but the avalanche danger was either high or extreme, so we postponed. I think Mt. Washington recorded 92" of snow in May alone that year.

 

Stowe closes April 20th...4/20 and possibly 4:20pm

 

Well to clarify, the mountain never closes, the lifts just stop running, haha.  If its a sunny day, the parking lot will still be pretty packed after closing day with hikers and skinners.  Its funny because when the lifts are running that time of year, there won't be many skiers at all...close the mountain then there'll actually be more folks that show up to hike/skin with their dogs and friends.  Its the crowd that finds the mountain too expensive or they are all out in the backcountry all winter, but once the lifts stop, its a free playground if you want to earn your turns. 

[Ginx snewx]

Yup.. ski club. That's by far the best deal but I see deals through email once in a while that are pretty good (though not as good).

Gotcha. What's 11 bucks when you're spending nearly 100 lol.

5 days skiing 5 nights lodging 427 slopside SR, same thing Stowe with full kitchen amenities Stowe 825 thats huge

[HoarfrostHubb]

30-45 days/nights of skiing for $239 ( free for me this season again)

Not too bad. I did not get out there as much as I wanted to this year. Still 2 weeks left but super busy

[bobbutts]

Haha yeah it is segregated.  I think the issue in S.VT is from Boston its a biatch to get to...there's really no easy or direct way, while up here they can do the I-93 to I-89 and its a pretty direct diagonal route through New England. 

 

Honestly I don't know many folks that ski in NH period, lol.  For whatever reason, I know folks that ski/live in Maine and folks in VT, but really don't know or hear much about the NH ski areas.  Even in online ski forums that I sometimes check out, folks post trip reports from VT and ME areas a lot, but not much comes out of NH unless its the Presidentials in the Spring like Tucks or something.

I'd guess alot of it is that our major resorts (Loon, Bretton Woods) are flatter and more groomed, much like Okemo is in VT.  Lots of families and recreation skiers go there, but not so much experts..  Cannon would be one exception and it has a decent following.  The other issue is the Greens clean up on snowfall comparatively.  As far as ME goes, Sugarloaf is the best terrain in the east, so it gets some attention.

[ORH_wxman]

Yup.. ski club. That's by far the best deal but I see deals through email once in a while that are pretty good (though not as good). 

 

 

Gotcha. What's 11 bucks when you're spending nearly 100 lol. 

 

 

Its a lot easier to find deals for SR online....its not just about the walkup price.

 

 

That's an extremely good deal you got for Stowe...but its definitely not the norm. Usually they don't discount much on places like liftopia...probably because they don't have to. SR you can almost always find 30-40% sliced off the window price. At least this is what I saw from early-February onward when I was putting in effort to look online. I'll have to check out local ski clubs like you did in CT. That sounds like a good avenue.

 

 

I'm hoping to score a deal on Killington next winter since I'd like to return to that mountain. I'll def be doing at least one weekend back to SR since we have 2 days redeemable now there.

[ORH_wxman]

I'd guess alot of it is that our major resorts (Loon, Bretton Woods) are flatter and more groomed, much like Okemo is in VT.  Lots of families and recreation skiers go there, but not so much experts..  Cannon would be one exception and it has a decent following.  The other issue is the Greens clean up on snowfall comparatively.  As far as ME goes, Sugarloaf is the best terrain in the east, so it gets some attention.

 

 

Wildcat is a pretty good mountain, but its relatively "small" in terms of trails with only 49. But it has some legit terrain. I think their center lift is basically 2000 feet vertical.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

It's all about finding deals though... I don't know the last time I've paid a walk-up price at a resort. 

 

I got a 3 day pass to Stowe for $99 for a Friday/Saturday/Sunday in January. I try to do Mount Snow's Friday St. Patricks Day $17 deal every year... liftopia also has nice deals too.

 

S VT is all NYers and CT folks. Once you get to Sugarbush/Stowe it's definitely more of a New England (or even Quebec) crowd. 

 

 

Yup I-91 is to be avoided on friday and sunday nights not so much for traffic but for aggressive tri-state drivers. Many get off at the Greenfield exit to toilet, fuel and eat at the bad food chains near the exit. 

Most probably don't know or care that there is actually a nice little downtown. 

Thankfully.

 

(No offense to anyone here from that area, unless of course, you are an arrogant or aggressive thru-traveler.)

[Whineminster]

I've been to almost every resort in New England, and VT hands down has the best skiing. They get double the snow NH does, more vertical, harder terrain, the lines are shorter, the lifts are better and the tree skiing is awesome. I'm mostly speaking about n. Vermont. Stratton and mt. Snow aren't that great and there's to many jersey shore people. I haven't been to loon or Waterville in years even though our family cabin is a half hour to both. Waterville faces south so it's always icy and dicey and loon is kinda generic. Cannon is fun if there's snow. Sunday river is decent but it's often icy (when I've been) and the vertical leaves some to be desired. Sugarloaf is sick but the top is always blown off, bracket basin is amazing when there's snow. Wildcat has that key little back country area to the right of the mountain as your going down. I've never been to Stowe before this year, but I'm trying to get up again and experience it with some real snow. To me even though it's more it's worth it to have the best of everything. Yeah there's rich people but their not as loud and in-your-face as the jersey/ny crowd (not saying everyone from there is like that ) . Anyone been up to whiteface?

[Whineminster]

And poor Ascutney and Tenney, I used to love those two little places. Cheap and good terrain if you knew where to look

[radarman]

Value in skiing isn't necessarily just the place with the lowest ticket price... like take Mad River Glen.  That is a co-op with almost no snowmaking, no high-speed lifts, no lift capacity (45 minute lines at the single chair are not uncommon), and very minimal grooming.  Their weekend ticket is $71.  That is not a good value at all...though the price is cheap-ish.  To compare, you can ski Stowe for $84 on the weekend (buy online), so only $13 more than MRG, and in return you get awesome grooming, snowmaking (reliable conditions), high speed lifts that allow you to get more skiing in throughout the day, and lift lines that usually do not exceed 15 minutes at any lift, etc.  You can probably ski Sunday River for the same price as MRG on the weekends it sounds like, and you're going to get in a heck of a lot more skiing for your buck.  Taking 1-2 runs per hour at MRG on a Saturday, or spinning 4 per hour at a place with high-speed lifts.

 

To me, MRG is one of the bigger rip-offs though that'll annoy a lot of folks, haha.  But MRG has marketed themselves so well and carved out that "niche" that they can charge $71 on weekends.  They have enough volume and know that the single chair line gets to 45 minutes, so they need to start "weeding" it out by raising prices.  The mountain isn't all that big overall, the parking lot is smallish, the lodge is small, so at some point they know their prices will have to keep raising because they've got the demand.  But honestly, they are making out like bandits at $71 for a ticket...with no snowmaking costs, low cost maintenance probably on their one grooming machine, old lifts, etc.  The overhead costs must be pretty low compared to other areas.

 

lol

 

55 bucks yesterday and we had a buy one get one free with 3 8 gallon fillups in the ski ride free program, making it $27.50 a piece.

 

Pete yesterday furious at the poor value:

 

 

 

 

MRG after it rains and freezes is a horrific experience, haha.  Ski it if you can is certainly true...but would you pay $71 to do rock hard ice moguls, or pay a little bit more at any number of resorts that have a huge commitment to snowmaking/grooming and can allow you to have an enjoyable snow surface to slide on?

 

Rock hard ice moguls.  Ski it if you can.

[powderfreak]

_lol

 

_{55 bucks yesterday and we had a buy one get one free with 3 8 gallon fillups in the ski ride free program, making it $27.50 a piece:}

 

_{Pete yesterday furious at the poor value:}

_{20140327_mrg2.png}

 

 

 

 

_{Rock hard ice moguls.  Ski it if you can.}

 

 

You must've missed the part about "skiing MRG after it rains and freezes"  not after it snows for a month straight

 

When its good its great... that's a good deal, just like Ryan skiing 3 days at Stowe for $99 in January.  But you and Pete didn't seem to take many trips up there in January...you were going to Sugarbush because they have grooming and snowmaking and you'd rather pay for that.

 

All I'm saying comparing list weekend prices at all ski areas in New England, MRG's price is likely one of the lower values for what you are supposedly paying for at most mountains.  Though at MRG you sort of pay to be "in the club" as $71 isn't buying you much infrustructure.  I would argue that $87 at Sunday River is a much better "deal".

 

Looking at it from the economics of what that money is supposed to be getting for you, that's all.

[ORH_wxman]

You must've missed the part about "skiing MRG after it rains and freezes"  not after it snows for a month straight

 

When its good its great... that's a good deal, just like Ryan skiing 3 days at Stowe for $99 in January.  But you and Pete didn't seem to take many trips up there in January...you were going to Sugarbush because they have grooming and snowmaking and you'd rather pay for that.

 

All I'm saying comparing list weekend prices at all ski areas in New England, MRG's price is likely one of the lower values for what you are supposedly paying for at most mountains.  Though at MRG you sort of pay to be "in the club" as $71 isn't buying you much infrustructure.  I would argue that $87 at Sunday River is a much better "deal".

 

Looking at it from the economics of what that money is supposed to be getting for you, that's all.

 

 

It probably all depends on what you value too. SR has short lift lines (a ton of lifts really spread out the crowd)...but it doesn't have the gnarlyness of MRG or certainly that old "character".

 

 

I will say that MRG does have online deals though that are pretty good. So you'd be really killing yourself paying the window price there versus other places where the online deals are not as big of a discount. MRG was consistently like 40-50% off if you searched around this year (at least since I started doing my searching in early February)...even during "peak times"

[eyewall]

There are deals online, you just have to keep your eyes open. I got to ski Smuggs for half price recently. Unfortunately I missed out on the Stowe bargain because I was working that day. Also don't count out Bolton Valley. They are convenient to BTV and can have some solid conditions at a good price. They run tons of specials and if you go during the week it is as many times as you can ski laps on to the lift. There is almost never a wait. If there is it is almost never more than a minute or two. You just have to be weary of the wind holds there.

[ORH_wxman]

There are deals online, you just have to keep your eyes open. I got to ski Smuggs for half price recently. Unfortunately I missed out on the Stowe bargain because I was working that day. Also don't count out Bolton Valley. They are convenient to BTV and can have some solid conditions at a good price. They run tons of specials and if you go during the week it is as many times as you can ski laps on to the lift. There is almost never a wait. If there is it is almost never more than a minute or two. You just have to be weary of the wind holds there.

 

 

Pretty much any mountain has a great deal at some point...esp during low volume times...the key for schmucks like me who can't just go any weekday is finding ones that are more convenient.

[radarman]

You must've missed the part about "skiing MRG after it rains and freezes"  not after it snows for a month straight

 

When its good its great... that's a good deal, just like Ryan skiing 3 days at Stowe for $99 in January.  But you and Pete didn't seem to take many trips up there in January...you were going to Sugarbush because they have grooming and snowmaking and you'd rather pay for that.

 

All I'm saying comparing list weekend prices at all ski areas in New England, MRG's price is likely one of the lower values for what you are supposedly paying for at most mountains.  Though at MRG you sort of pay to be "in the club" as $71 isn't buying you much infrustructure.  I would argue that $87 at Sunday River is a much better "deal".

 

Looking at it from the economics of what that money is supposed to be getting for you, that's all.

 

It's just bizarre because a minute ago you were talking supply and demand as justification for your highest prices.  That's perfectly reasonable.  If you can fill the mountain to capacity might as well charge whatever you can get... Sort of like the Yankees with the seats behind home plate... (well maybe not)...

 

But if it's simple economics that dictate, hard to then go talk about value right afterward. 

 

Look you have a great product, I think most everyone agrees.  But a large amount of your income comes from very wealthy families booking trips well in advance with unknown conditions.  Families that like to ski but don't necessarily "ski".  For me, bland groomers are not as fun as icy death bumps, I don't care if there's 20 feet of base on the groomer.  Meh.  I'll take em in November I suppose, but not Jan-March.  If it's been a bad month, ie. January, easy... I don't go!  Not to MRG, not to SB, not to Stowe either no matter how good the snowmaking is, because you don't make snow where I like to ski.

 

Not being in mountain ops I don't have to consider the wider experience.  But it does take some mental gymnastics to reconcile that the most expensive place in the east has outstanding value.  Again, not hating on any of it including the pricing scheme.

[powderfreak]

It probably all depends on what you value too. SR has short lift lines (a ton of lifts really spread out the crowd)...but it doesn't have the gnarlyness of MRG or certainly that old "character".

I will say that MRG does have online deals though that are pretty good. So you'd be really killing yourself paying the window price there versus other places where the online deals are not as big of a discount. MRG was consistently like 40-50% off if you searched around this year (at least since I started doing my searching in early February)...even during "peak times"

Yeah the extra deals are the wild card...but the only way to really compare areas is the list price. Maybe Bob's Sunoco gas station offers deal X and Price Chopper does deal Y if you buy four chickens a month, etc. I was just merely saying weekend walk-up rate comparison and what the price of admission is supposed to pay for. I knew that would hit a nerve, I just was thinking in economical terms, there's an exchange of goods for a price.

[powderfreak]

It's just bizarre because a minute ago you were talking supply and demand as justification for your highest prices. That's perfectly reasonable. If you can fill the mountain to capacity might as well charge whatever you can get... Sort of like the Yankees with the seats behind home plate... (well maybe not)...

But if it's simple economics that dictate, hard to then go talk about value right afterward.

Look you have a great product, I think most everyone agrees. But a large amount of your income comes from very wealthy families booking trips well in advance with unknown conditions. Families that like to ski but don't necessarily "ski". For me, bland groomers are not as fun as icy death bumps, I don't care if there's 20 feet of base on the groomer. Meh. I'll take em in November I suppose, but not Jan-March. If it's been a bad month, ie. January, easy... I don't go! Not to MRG, not to SB, not to Stowe either no matter how good the snowmaking is, because you don't make snow where I like to ski.

Not being in mountain ops I don't have to consider the wider experience. But it does take some mental gymnastics to reconcile that the most expensive place in the east has outstanding value. Again, not hating on any of it including the pricing scheme.

Sorry if I was insinuating this was the best value. This is a supply and demand spot from what I can tell. I'm just offering the alter to the cheapest being the best value....McDonald's has the cheapest food but is it really the best value?

To me when the skiing is good, your backyard is the best value. When the skiing is ugly, that changes quickly.

I'd still wager that Sunday River may be the best resort for price plus infrastructure for the average skier.

Either way, you should know by now I probably like to ski similar terrain to you, and will still ski ice bumps after the rain in January. If you've caught on to pictures, I don't spend a ton of time on groomers. But I like to ski, so if it's groomers over nothing, I'll take it.

[Sugarloaf1989]

I always though that Saddleback offered a huge amount of terrain for a low ticket price.

[ORH_wxman]

Yeah the extra deals are the wild card...but the only way to really compare areas is the list price. Maybe Bob's Sunoco gas station offers deal X and Price Chopper does deal Y if you buy four chickens a month, etc. I was just merely saying weekend walk-up rate comparison and what the price of admission is supposed to pay for. I knew that would hit a nerve, I just was thinking in economical terms, there's an exchange of goods for a price.

 

 

I think as a consumer, I'd disagree. If some places offer better "deals" at a higher frequency, then I'm more likely to go there.

 

Say for example that both ski resorts have the exact same window price and fairly similar terrain, experience, etc. If one place has deals that are better, more frequent, and/or easier to find, then what place am I going to choose? Probably that one unless I am really obsessed with the other place and/or money is not an object. There's certainly an unignorable number of ski consumers to whom money is not an object...so the market can certainly tap into that money.

 

But then there's another large subset of consumers who are looking for high quality skiing at an affordable price. Some resorts may focus a bit more on those different subsets of consumers. The people to whom money is no object aren't concerned with "value". They are going to pay full price, not think twice, and expect to be treated to a great time. The rest are going to search for something that doesn't break our piggy banks while also getting as high quality of an experience as possible.

 

 

 

I mean I see what you are saying with the walk up price as "apples to apples" type comparison...but you can see how that is really only relevant for those people who do not care about the money and pay the window price. There's a lot of consumers who do not do that and are searching for deals. If one place has higher, more frequent, and convenient discounts than the other, then it certainly makes a huge difference for that group of consumers.

 

 

And again, I think some places will cater to different sets of consumers a bit more than the other...and there's certainly room to do that in the industry.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

I've been skiing a grand total of 1 time this year. Skiing is an expensive hobby, no denying that. Anyone who is skiing is paying a small fortune to do so. That said, many people who ski ar on a budget and money isn't endless. This is why deals are so important to families who ski and even just couples.

I won't ski if i pay window price for a ticket usually. Its too much. On occasion, in a pinch I will.

Deals are very important to myself and friends. If there isn't a deal, we don't ski. Usually you can find deals such as x amount off if you buy online, or buy one get one free kind of thing. Or a local business or company does some sort of reward program with it, or offers discounts if you are a member or customer

I will say most mountains offer discounts, but some its like jumping through hoops to get it. Either its hard to find or there are a ton of subsidiary conditions with regards to getting a discount. They not only must have discounts, but they can't be crazy hard to find and use either

[HIPPYVALLEY]

I always though that Saddleback offered a huge amount of terrain for a low ticket price.

Yup, cheapest "big mountain" in the East.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Season passes are a great way to go if you have a place that is not too far away and you can afford the initial investment. That being said, it can get a little boring skiing the same runs over and over, esp at a small place like WaWa. I would probably feel different if SR or Stowe or the Loaf was in my backyard

 

A couple of seasons ago (before I got a free pass) I had the per visit cost down to less than $5. Sometimes I went for several hours, a few times just for a run or 2 if the conditions were not to my liking

 

This season we had all 4 of us with passes for less than $750. Mostly good conditions

[HoarfrostHubb]

Yup, cheapest "big mountain" in the East.

Agreed

[Sugarloaf1989]

Yup, cheapest "big mountain" in the East.

 

 

We ski there every time that we visit Sugarloaf as it's a nice low key alternative for uncrowded skiing. They are going to be opened until April 20th, but for weekend operations only after March 30th.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

Season passes are a great way to go if you have a place that is not too far away and you can afford the initial investment. That being said, it can get a little boring skiing the same runs over and over, esp at a small place like WaWa. I would probably feel different if SR or Stowe or the Loaf was in my backyard

 

A couple of seasons ago (before I got a free pass) I had the per visit cost down to less than $5. Sometimes I went for several hours, a few times just for a run or 2 if the conditions were not to my liking

 

This season we had all 4 of us with passes for less than $750. Mostly good conditions

 

The boy will be three in May so next winter I'll start slowly getting him onto skis.  Probably wait another year to get a B'East pass but they have great family deals and the little ones can use the magic carpet lift for free when learning.