The 2013-2014 Ski Season Thread

[Whineminster]

Ok, thanks guys. I'm hoping they get some snow so any snow that freezes up after Friday will be covered. Yeah I'll buy online, thanks for that. They make you pay $5 at the window your first time there to obtain a card that activates the electronic lift line gate, so your paying $103 to ski....ke$ha would say that's just cray cray

[Ginx snewx]

Ok, thanks guys. I'm hoping they get some snow so any snow that freezes up after Friday will be covered. Yeah I'll buy online, thanks for that. They make you pay $5 at the window your first time there to obtain a card that activates the electronic lift line gate, so your paying $103 to ski....ke$ha would say that's just cray cray

have fun just think the money you save buying online now you can get a hot chocolate.

[powderfreak]

The locals were all crowing about the conditions this March at the mountain...they kept saying "this is the best conditions this late in 6 or 7 years"....I figured they were remembering 2007-2008 where there was still like 50" of snow on the ground in spots up there in late March.

 

Though '60-'07 was epic late, too.

 

Same thing here...easily the best March since '08 or '07.  2007 had the snowfall though, I don't really remember much about the snowfall in '08 in March...at least nothing that stands out, although the snowpack was ridiculous.

[HoarfrostHubb]

While Wachusett's snow has become not so good, they might still have a season from Nov 16 until April 13

[powderfreak]

Geez. $98. Great mountain and all, but that is nuts

 

Vail's walk-up rate this season was $135 haha.  And if you saw any pictures of the lift lines there this season, that price probably isn't high enough.

 

For Stowe, purchase ahead of time online and get the $84 rate.  That's the same price as a day at Sugarbush ($84). 

 

The whole lift ticket price thing is just supply and demand...the mountain is crowded enough on most weekends, I can't even imagine what this place would be like with even a $65 lift ticket.  Just swamped.  If 10,000 people show up at $98 window rates, and there's 10-20 minute lift lines on the weekend, the economics of that do not support lowering ticket rates, haha. 

 

It may sound crazy expensive, but obviously enough people have the means to do it...just like people who will pay $150 to play a 4-hour round of golf at any high-end course.

[Ginx snewx]

Vail's walk-up rate this season was $135 haha. And if you saw any pictures of the lift lines there this season, that price probably isn't high enough.

For Stowe, purchase ahead of time online and get the $84 rate. That's the same price as a day at Sugarbush ($84).

The whole lift ticket price thing is just supply and demand...the mountain is crowded enough on most weekends, I can't even imagine what this place would be like with even a $65 lift ticket. Just swamped. If 10,000 people show up at $98 window rates, and there's 10-20 minute lift lines on the weekend, the economics of that do not support lowering ticket rates, haha.

It may sound crazy expensive, but obviously enough people have the means to do it...just like people who will pay $150 to play a 4-hour round of golf at any high-end course.

the reason we ski mid week only, 427 for a 5 day ski and stay slopside with amenities at SR versus 550 2 days at Stowe ski and stay with 5000 Yahoo's standing in line,no brainer.

[ORH_wxman]

the reason we ski mid week only, 427 for a 5 day ski and stay slopside with amenities at SR versus 550 2 days at Stowe ski and stay with 5000 Yahoo's standing in line,no brainer.

 

 

Stowe gets a lot of the NY crowd...much easier drive up to VT than all the way to Maine or NH. So they can jack up their prices and still get fannies in their chairlifts.

 

 

I do think Sunday River is one of the best bang-for-buck big resorts around. You can easily get a 1 day lift ticket for peak times for like 60-65$ on liftopia (and like $45-55 for a weekday) and of course you can really get some sweet deals there for multi-day trips.

[HoarfrostHubb]

4 of us skied on Sunday at Sunapee for $178. Good deal

I understand why Stowe charges that but I would not be able to go for 1 day

The multiday/online price is fine

[HoarfrostHubb]

And Wachusett's daily price is absurd

[powderfreak]

Stowe gets a lot of the NY crowd...much easier drive up to VT than all the way to Maine or NH. So they can jack up their prices and still get fannies in their chairlifts.

 

 

I do think Sunday River is one of the best bang-for-buck big resorts around. You can easily get a 1 day lift ticket for peak times for like 60-65$ on liftopia (and like $45-55 for a weekday) and of course you can really get some sweet deals there for multi-day trips.

 

Our largest market by far is the Boston area... by far.  We get some NY crowd but they go mostly to S.VT.

 

Mass is the number one state that visitors here come from, again, particularly the Boston suburbs.  Boston is only 3 hours away, and all interstate, while NYC is around 6 hours away.  There is a lot of money in the Boston suburbs, lol.

 

The mountain is awesome and there's a high demand which is why so many people lament the prices...they want to be here.  I can't imagine what this place would be like if there were like $500-700 seasons passes...it would be a sh*tshow, an absolute sh*tshow.

[Ginx snewx]

Stowe gets a lot of the NY crowd...much easier drive up to VT than all the way to Maine or NH. So they can jack up their prices and still get fannies in their chairlifts.

I do think Sunday River is one of the best bang-for-buck big resorts around. You can easily get a 1 day lift ticket for peak times for like 60-65$ on liftopia (and like $45-55 for a weekday) and of course you can really get some sweet deals there for multi-day trips.

mid week season pass for 14/15 $359 if bought in March, perfect for locales

[ORH_wxman]

4 of us skied on Sunday at Sunapee for $178. Good deal

I understand why Stowe charges that but I would not be able to go for 1 day

The multiday/online price is fine

 

 

Sugarloaf has some sweet deals too...but the drive is so friggin' far, lol. Probably part of the reason you can score such sweet deals there.

 

 

I mean, it was a bit over 3 hours to Sunday River...but its more than another hour further to The Loaf. The snow up there though is ridonkulous.

 

 

 

A good place to grab some cheap lift tix at times is Wildcat in New Hampshire...they have some really nice terrrain and views. Its "only" 49 trails, but you get your moneys worth for sure. You can almost always find lift tickets on liftopia there for under $60 with little advance warning.

[ORH_wxman]

Our largest market by far is the Boston area... by far.  We get some NY crowd but they go mostly to S.VT.

 

Mass is the number one state that visitors here come from, again, particularly the Boston suburbs.  Boston is only 3 hours away, and all interstate, while NYC is around 6 hours away.  There is a lot of money in the Boston suburbs, lol.

 

The mountain is awesome and there's a high demand which is why so many people lament the prices...they want to be here.  I can't imagine what this place would be like if there were like $500-700 seasons passes...it would be a sh*tshow, an absolute sh*tshow.

 

 

I would have thought you'd get a lot more NY crowd....wow.

 

 

I'd never go to Stowe from Boston if I had the choice of them or the Maine resorts....not at that price, lol. If the prices were similar, then I'd think about it since the terrain at Stowe is def awesome.

[HoarfrostHubb]

mid week season pass for 14/15 $359 if bought in March, perfect for locales

That's really good if you lived near there

[powderfreak]

4 of us skied on Sunday at Sunapee for $178. Good deal

I understand why Stowe charges that but I would not be able to go for 1 day

The multiday/online price is fine

 

Yeah I just look at it like any business...you have a limited infrastructure that can handle X number of people.  In a ski resort's case, you have to consider the access road (how much traffic can it handle), the amount of parking spaces, the amount of seating in lodges for lunch, the lift capacity (and how long you want lift lines to be), etc....then you find the price point that fills that infrastructure without overwhelming it.

 

Its like if you own a restaurant and you have seats for 50 diners.  You'll keep raising your meal prices until you find that point at which your filling the restaurant without having to turn an excessive amount of people away...unless you are a non-profit business or something, haha.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Yeah I just look at it like any business...you have a limited infrastructure that can handle X number of people.  In a ski resort's case, you have to consider the access road (how much traffic can it handle), the amount of parking spaces, the amount of seating in lodges for lunch, the lift capacity (and how long you want lift lines to be), etc....then you find the price point that fills that infrastructure without overwhelming it.

 

Its like if you own a restaurant and you have seats for 50 diners.  You'll keep raising your meal prices until you find that point at which your filling the restaurant without having to turn an excessive amount of people away...unless you are a non-profit business or something, haha.

Yes. That is how it works. At some point, the level is breached and Stowe (or Wachusett, or Fenway Park (maybe) or Disney) has yet to reach that level.

They do what they do. And specials/deals can help... I would not expect Stowe to have many, since they don't have to, but the online rechargeable thing s good. Stowe also has a great lift system and a good base area

[Ginx snewx]

I would have thought you'd get a lot more NY crowd....wow.

I'd never go to Stowe from Boston if I had the choice of them or the Maine resorts....not at that price, lol. If the prices were similar, then I'd think about it since the terrain at Stowe is def awesome.

Stowe was great when I used to truck around NE skiing. Sugarbush is awesome too as is Sugarloaf but as a complete package I fell in love with SR and its only getting better.Since Boyne took over I have noticed the improvement, that new terrain park is sick.

[powderfreak]

I would have thought you'd get a lot more NY crowd....wow.

 

 

I'd never go to Stowe from Boston if I had the choice of them or the Maine resorts....not at that price, lol. If the prices were similar, then I'd think about it since the terrain at Stowe is def awesome.

 

Well think about NYC and how far a drive that is.  Those folks will go to the Catskills first (Hunter, etc) and then S.VT.  I bet NYC folks could get to NH just as easily and quickly...most NYC folks drive up I-84 to I-91 to I-89, so they are driving right past NH.  Its a solid 6 hours to NYC, and its about 4 hours for me to get to my folks house in Albany.

 

Meanwhile, I can be in Boston in about 3 hours.  But yeah, Boston is this areas largest market by far and its where the majority of our advertising goes.  Stowe is the largest participant in the Boston Ski Show, where the resort takes up a huge amount of real estate at the show...we send Gondola cabins down there, chefs to make food, etc.

 

But I'm sure you know, Will, that there is a lot of money in the Boston suburbs...north shore and south shore.  A lot of those folks don't even blink at the lift ticket prices...it boggles my mind how many people pay the walk-up rate without doing any research.  Family's of 5 just dropping $450 a day to ski.   Plus if you want to stay in an upscale lodge/hotel (say Topnotch or Stowe Mountain Lodge) you're looking at 400-500 per night on the weekends.  But again, it sells out.  Like the Christmas holiday you can sell out even at $1,000 per night.  The funny thing is you can rent an apartment in town for an entire month for like $500...or get one night in a hotel room, haha.

[eyewall]

I hit up Bolton again today and it was probably the best day of the year as far as I am concerned. I you ski the groomed terrain you couldn't ask for much more and the weather was perfect! Hard Luck is my new favorite there.

[ORH_wxman]

Stowe was great when I used to truck around NE skiing. Sugarbush is awesome too as is Sugarloaf but as a complete package I fell in love with SR and its only getting better.Since Boyne took over I have noticed the improvement, that new terrain park is sick.

 

 

I always had an affinity for Killington too...but they've gotten pretty pricey as well. As someone who is planning on buying a house soon, we have to pick our spots, haha. Sunday River is a great combo for big resort mountain and not overly pricey.

 

There's other deals to be taken advantage of throughout the year at other places, too...hopefully I'll be able to do that next winter. But we're already going back to SR at least once next winter because they hooked Megan up with a free day of skiing redeemable at anytime between now and next year. after they cancelled her 9am lesson without telling her...leaving her waiting for an hour.

[powderfreak]

Stowe was great when I used to truck around NE skiing. Sugarbush is awesome too as is Sugarloaf but as a complete package I fell in love with SR and its only getting better.Since Boyne took over I have noticed the improvement, that new terrain park is sick.

 

Boyne is a good operator...they know what they are doing.  For you ginxy, the price is right too.  I mean its the same in any industry... I'm sure if SR could get $90-100 for a day of skiing from everyone that visits, they would.  I mean if resorts could get $150 per day they would...this isn't a non-profit industry.

 

I would bet though that SR is pretty close to the "best value" you can find in skiing these days if those prices you guys talk about are available.  I'm sort of surprised they are so low, which must say something about skier visit volume, but still...you are getting some high speed lifts, some of the best snowmaking technology, great grooming, etc...all leads to reliable conditions too regardless of weather. 

 

Value in skiing isn't necessarily just the place with the lowest ticket price... like take Mad River Glen.  That is a co-op with almost no snowmaking, no high-speed lifts, no lift capacity (45 minute lines at the single chair are not uncommon), and very minimal grooming.  Their weekend ticket is $71.  That is not a good value at all...though the price is cheap-ish.  To compare, you can ski Stowe for $84 on the weekend (buy online), so only $13 more than MRG, and in return you get awesome grooming, snowmaking (reliable conditions), high speed lifts that allow you to get more skiing in throughout the day, and lift lines that usually do not exceed 15 minutes at any lift, etc.  You can probably ski Sunday River for the same price as MRG on the weekends it sounds like, and you're going to get in a heck of a lot more skiing for your buck.  Taking 1-2 runs per hour at MRG on a Saturday, or spinning 4 per hour at a place with high-speed lifts.

 

To me, MRG is one of the bigger rip-offs though that'll annoy a lot of folks, haha.  But MRG has marketed themselves so well and carved out that "niche" that they can charge $71 on weekends.  They have enough volume and know that the single chair line gets to 45 minutes, so they need to start "weeding" it out by raising prices.  The mountain isn't all that big overall, the parking lot is smallish, the lodge is small, so at some point they know their prices will have to keep raising because they've got the demand.  But honestly, they are making out like bandits at $71 for a ticket...with no snowmaking costs, low cost maintenance probably on their one grooming machine, old lifts, etc.  The overhead costs must be pretty low compared to other areas.

 

I love thinking about this stuff, because I was an economics major in college, and also work in the industry...but there are always reasons for why a place costs a certain amount to ski/ride. 

[powderfreak]

Anyway, here's a cool comparison I made...

 

March 2012 had a temperature departure of +10.4 at Morrisville-Stowe Airport with an average high of 50.5F and an average low of 27.5F.

 

March 2014 is actually more impressive in the opposite direction, with a departure of -12.4 so far, and an average high of 30.1F and an average low of 0.3F. 

 

So this month's average high temperature has been in the same ballpark as the average low temperature in March 2012, lol.  Note the difference in snow depth at the snowmaking valve house and the trail sign.

 

[HoarfrostHubb]

I would counter the MRG argument (never skied there) by saying that they aren't selling a "more runs in an hour" product. They are a niche just like Jeeps are a niche vehicle

Gnarly, rough, crude. But definite grin factor Attitude rebellious funky. Not corporate.

[CT Rain]

I would have thought you'd get a lot more NY crowd....wow.

 

 

I'd never go to Stowe from Boston if I had the choice of them or the Maine resorts....not at that price, lol. If the prices were similar, then I'd think about it since the terrain at Stowe is def awesome.

 

It's all about finding deals though... I don't know the last time I've paid a walk-up price at a resort. 

 

I got a 3 day pass to Stowe for $99 for a Friday/Saturday/Sunday in January. I try to do Mount Snow's Friday St. Patricks Day $17 deal every year... liftopia also has nice deals too.

 

S VT is all NYers and CT folks. Once you get to Sugarbush/Stowe it's definitely more of a New England (or even Quebec) crowd. 

[CT Rain]

I would have thought you'd get a lot more NY crowd....wow.

 

 

I'd never go to Stowe from Boston if I had the choice of them or the Maine resorts....not at that price, lol. If the prices were similar, then I'd think about it since the terrain at Stowe is def awesome.

 

Is Stowe more expensive than SR? 

[powderfreak]

I would counter the MRG argument (never skied there) by saying that they aren't selling a "more runs in an hour" product. They are a niche just like Jeeps are a niche vehicle

Gnarly, rough, crude. But definite grin factor Attitude rebellious funky. Not corporate.

 

True.  You are paying for the atmosphere and to be "part of the club" so to speak.  They have developed their brand quite well around that...but I'm just speaking in terms of value for skiing. 

 

MRG after it rains and freezes is a horrific experience, haha.  Ski it if you can is certainly true...but would you pay $71 to do rock hard ice moguls, or pay a little bit more at any number of resorts that have a huge commitment to snowmaking/grooming and can allow you to have an enjoyable snow surface to slide on?

[powderfreak]

It's all about finding deals though... I don't know the last time I've paid a walk-up price at a resort. 

 

I got a 3 day pass to Stowe for $99 for a Friday/Saturday/Sunday in January. I try to do Mount Snow's Friday St. Patricks Day $17 deal every year... liftopia also has nice deals too.

 

S VT is all NYers and CT folks. Once you get to Sugarbush/Stowe it's definitely more of a New England (or even Quebec) crowd. 

 

Yeah, southern VT is an entirely different crowd than up here....well the demographics regarding income may be the same, but the location that they come from is pretty different.  And after the Boston area, the second biggest market here is Montreal.  It really is a pain in the arse to get up here from NYC or even southern CT is a good 5 hour haul. 

 

Anyway you are right Ryan, look for the deals.  Ski Club appreciation days/weekends are some of the best deals at Stowe...I'm assuming that may be how you got the 3 days for $99?  But all season we do the buy online specials...sometimes its down as low as $49 or $59, other times its the stock $84 price. 

[powderfreak]

Is Stowe more expensive than SR? 

 

Just looking at the list prices, yes.  Stowe's walk-up rate is $98, while SR's is $87.

[CT Rain]

Yeah, southern VT is an entirely different crowd than up here....well the demographics regarding income may be the same, but the location that they come from is pretty different.  And after the Boston area, the second biggest market here is Montreal.  It really is a pain in the arse to get up here from NYC or even southern CT is a good 5 hour haul. 

 

Anyway you are right Ryan, look for the deals.  Ski Club appreciation days/weekends are some of the best deals at Stowe...I'm assuming that may be how you got the 3 days for $99?  But all season we do the buy online specials...sometimes its down as low as $49 or $59, other times its the stock $84 price. 

 

Yup.. ski club. That's by far the best deal but I see deals through email once in a while that are pretty good (though not as good). 

 

Just looking at the list prices, yes.  Stowe's walk-up rate is $98, while SR's is $87.

 

Gotcha. What's 11 bucks when you're spending nearly 100 lol. 

[CT Rain]

Yeah, southern VT is an entirely different crowd than up here....well the demographics regarding income may be the same, but the location that they come from is pretty different.  And after the Boston area, the second biggest market here is Montreal.  It really is a pain in the arse to get up here from NYC or even southern CT is a good 5 hour haul. 

 

Anyway you are right Ryan, look for the deals.  Ski Club appreciation days/weekends are some of the best deals at Stowe...I'm assuming that may be how you got the 3 days for $99?  But all season we do the buy online specials...sometimes its down as low as $49 or $59, other times its the stock $84 price. 

 

Yeah it's even a haul from Hartford.  A couple lift rides and 5 minutes in a bar next to a ski area on the weekend I can tell you exactly what the main markets are for a ski area. 

 

I almost never see Boston people at Mount Snow or Stratton - it's funny how the regions are so "segregated". I've only been skiing in NH once... and I don't really know anyone from home or around here who ever heads to NH over VT.