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The 2013-2014 Ski Season Thread


Skivt2

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Just curious, why can't Pico make snow?  Are they restricted by the state into only drawing a certain amount of water?

 

(and also curious as to why you used new skis on poor conditions?)

 

one guess- money.  K-ton puts their resources toward the main mountains around the corner.  Pico is more a local's spot I'm guessing. 

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The ski conditions in California are ugly for the most part aside from snowmaking trails. You know it's a bad season so far at Mammoth when Killington has a greater seasonal snowfall total (67") than Mammoth (45").

 

Squaw is really hurting also.  Only 56" at high camp (8200') ooof.  32" at the base (6200')

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Yes I know what the date is, but ski areas only have so much budgeted for snowmaking. If this pattern stays the same going forward and the snowmaking budget is spent on resurfacing rather than building the glacier on Superstar, Killington might not go late into May this year.

 

Most of the snowmaking at Killington is historically finished within the next 30 days anyway, aside from spot resurfacing and late season base building.

 

Well if they spend the month of February building a late season base, they'll have no problem.  There is some truth to what you are saying about a snowmaking budget, but the major resorts will make snow normall at least through Presidents Week in February.  Even now, I've noticed mountains are getting away from the "resurfacing" (at least through reading the snow reports), and starting to push more towards spring base depths.  That's sort of our plan this week.  Its a light visitor week (historically, mid-week after the holiday period is dead), and if there's another light rain event coming over the weekend, why waste time going through the motions to resurface everything by the weekend only to have to do it again next week.  Let the groomers do their thing this week, and park the snowmaking for two days straight on major runs to start hitting spring depths hard. 

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PF is the voice of reason. It sucks that you can't go back country skiiing in spots, but so what? Most don't care and only want to hit up the mountain. Conditions in NH and ME are great for cross country skiiing too. My coworker in New Boston NH was cross country skiing and Tamarack has some of the deepest pack to date that he's seen in awhile.

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PF is the voice of reason. It sucks that you can't go back country skiiing in spots, but so what? Most don't care and only want to hit up the mountain. Conditions in NH and ME are great for cross country skiiing too. My coworker in New Boston NH was cross country skiing and Tamarack has some of the deepest pack to date that he's seen in awhile.

Scoots, when are you coming out to Princeton to ski?

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The ski conditions in California are ugly for the most part aside from snowmaking trails. You know it's a bad season so far at Mammoth when Killington has a greater seasonal snowfall total (67") than Mammoth (45").

 

YES!  This hasn't been talked about much anywhere, but parts of the west are having a horrific winter so far.  I heard the Sierra had one of the worst holiday seasons in a while, aside from the atrocious 2011-2012 season. 

 

Squaw Valley at 8,200ft upper mountain snow plot depth is 20" right now.  They have very limited terrain open (lots of rocks out there and most expert runs require more like a 4-6 foot base).  Dendrite in New Hampshire had more snow in his yard last week than the summits of the Sierra.  I will say it makes me feel a lot better about the 24" snowpack on Mansfield's upper elevations, lol.

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I was just up there after that last 'big" event. It was nice but todays torch is a big setback. go take a ride up to Newry and get back to me on that 19" snow depth you're talking about.,,,how many feet deep do you think the natural base is up at SR after a single 8-12" storm and then a few inches when a lot of the trails on Jordan/non snowmaking trails were basically bare prior? Like bare...you can see the grass and rocks bare.

Throw your skis on the roof and go skiing in the rain this weekend...then tell us how great it is. ;)

In a heartbeat seeing as it does not rain Saturday up there. Perfect day actually, mid 30s no wind after 4 days of solid snow making.
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Honestly i just have a Personal thing w attitash bc my relatives are there, my gf loves N conway and i am sorta stuck skiing it.

I'd like to ask someone like powder freak what (speculate) is going on with them , ppl there say there is a def decrease in snow making the last cpl years there. Why would this be. They kicked the season off w bull crap (saying snow making temps were not suffice) and waited till mid dec, i mean Wa Wa and loon and others made the snow so lets call a spade a spade, and i can stomach a late start but i wont stomach a continuation of cheap /lazy policy of having snowmaking very infrequently on few trails, are they waiting for February, do they not have the guns ? What Could be behind the lack of snowmaking there, anyone :)

Actually they were one of the last major New England resorts to institute snow making so perhaps that is just not part of their "business model"

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Honestly i just have a Personal thing w attitash bc my relatives are there, my gf loves N conway and i am sorta stuck skiing it.

I'd like to ask someone like powder freak what (speculate) is going on with them , ppl there say there is a def decrease in snow making the last cpl years there. Why would this be. They kicked the season off w bull crap (saying snow making temps were not suffice) and waited till mid dec, i mean Wa Wa and loon and others made the snow so lets call a spade a spade, and i can stomach a late start but i wont stomach a continuation of cheap /lazy policy of having snowmaking very infrequently on few trails, are they waiting for February, do they not have the guns ? What Could be behind the lack of snowmaking there, anyone :)

Follow the $$$  They probably don't get much business until Christmas and beyond.  Not a big draw for locals. They make their cash in January, Feb, March is my guess. That's too bad because I like some of their trails. Ptarmigan is a good one 

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PF is the voice of reason. It sucks that you can't go back country skiiing in spots, but so what? Most don't care and only want to hit up the mountain. Conditions in NH and ME are great for cross country skiiing too. My coworker in New Boston NH was cross country skiing and Tamarack has some of the deepest pack to date that he's seen in awhile.

 

This.  I can already tell you that Winston/Messenger/Cweat/Rollo probably won't have a good time skiing at any resort/area until we get a series of big dumps.  Same maybe for Coventry.  Meanwhile, I have no doubt Ryan will have a good time, same goes for Ginxy, Hubbdave, or Radarman if they go skiing anywhere in the next couple weeks.  Its all in the attitude and exactly what you are looking to get out of the experience.

 

I b*tch and moan about it not being a great winter, but again as I stated earlier, those are for my own selfish reasons at this point.  I've gotten the opinion that some are skeptical when I say its good or bad, but as you guys have seen, I have no problem being a debbie at times, lol.  Its not marketing on here for me to say its awesome...honestly AmericanWx forums isn't driving skier visits one way or another.  It may boost ECMWF subscriptions, but this forum doesn't sell lift tickets.  I have pride in the mountain, sure, but I am generally realistic on conditions. 

 

The thing with skiing is you can go to a resort or mountain because the snow is awesome and its been an awesome weather pattern or whatever...but I've found that the vast majority of visitors are just here for the experience of "getting out there" and doing something fun with their friends or family.  Great conditions are a bonus, but take today for example...it was raining pretty steadily all morning, then changed to snow and froze up in the afternoon.  There were still people out there skiing and riding, heck even families with smiles, just laughing at the situation but you're out there with your family, sharing a memory.  If you get overly focused on conditions, every little brown patch or every little ice patch, its going to drive you crazy on the East Coast.  The snow conditions have generally been good and people have generally had a good time this season... its a different vibe than a 2011 or 2006 start, even if the numbers on paper aren't all that different for snowfall in places. 

 

If you are stoked to just be outside in the mountains, getting some fresh air, hanging out with friends and/or family, you're going to have a good time every single visit.  Hey, its really icy in the afternoon?  Get up early in the morning, spin your laps for 4 hours, and head to the bar or hot tub, watch some sports, and enjoy the downtime.  I worked in a hotel here in Stowe for a while previously, as a moonlighting evening job, and I can tell you there are two types of guests.  The ones that bring all their life stresses with them on vacation and are sort of looking for a reason to be disappointed or unhappy, they are almost doomed from the start....and the others that are just so happy to be escaping their daily routine and not be at work, that they don't sweat the little things, they'll enjoy their vacation no matter what happens. 

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Honestly i just have a Personal thing w attitash bc my relatives are there, my gf loves N conway and i am sorta stuck skiing it.

I'd like to ask someone like powder freak what (speculate) is going on with them , ppl there say there is a def decrease in snow making the last cpl years there. Why would this be. They kicked the season off w bull crap (saying snow making temps were not suffice) and waited till mid dec, i mean Wa Wa and loon and others made the snow so lets call a spade a spade, and i can stomach a late start but i wont stomach a continuation of cheap /lazy policy of having snowmaking very infrequently on few trails, are they waiting for February, do they not have the guns ? What Could be behind the lack of snowmaking there, anyone :)

Actually they were one of the last major New England resorts to institute snow making so perhaps that is just not part of their "business model"

 

I don't really want to speculate as there can be a lot of reasons... maybe some larger infrastructure issues that isn't readily apparent, money, management, water?  Where do they get their water?  Is it a long way from some stream or some environmental restriction?  Compressors in working order?  Maybe something happened to the infrastructure that can't be readily fixed during the cold season or its too costly for the moment?  Could also just be a business model?

 

What you have to consider or think about though... are they making less snow than they historically have?  If its no different than other seasons, then that's just the way it is, even if you think its not enough.  If its drastically less than previous years, then there's probably something up.

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This.  I can already tell you that Winston/Messenger/Cweat/Rollo probably won't have a good time skiing at any resort/area until we get a series of big dumps.  Same maybe for Coventry.  Meanwhile, I have no doubt Ryan will have a good time, same goes for Ginxy, Hubbdave, or Radarman if they go skiing anywhere in the next couple weeks.  Its all in the attitude and exactly what you are looking to get out of the experience.

 

I b*tch and moan about it not being a great winter, but again as I stated earlier, those are for my own selfish reasons at this point.  I've gotten the opinion that some are skeptical when I say its good or bad, but as you guys have seen, I have no problem being a debbie at times, lol.  Its not marketing on here for me to say its awesome...honestly AmericanWx forums isn't driving skier visits one way or another.  It may boost ECMWF subscriptions, but this forum doesn't sell lift tickets.  I have pride in the mountain, sure, but I am generally realistic on conditions. 

 

The thing with skiing is you can go to a resort or mountain because the snow is awesome and its been an awesome weather pattern or whatever...but I've found that the vast majority of visitors are just here for the experience of "getting out there" and doing something fun with their friends or family.  Great conditions are a bonus, but take today for example...it was raining pretty steadily all morning, then changed to snow and froze up in the afternoon.  There were still people out there skiing and riding, heck even families with smiles, just laughing at the situation but you're out there with your family, sharing a memory.  If you get overly focused on conditions, every little brown patch or every little ice patch, its going to drive you crazy on the East Coast.  The snow conditions have generally been good and people have generally had a good time this season... its a different vibe than a 2011 or 2006 start, even if the numbers on paper aren't all that different for snowfall in places. 

 

If you are stoked to just be outside in the mountains, getting some fresh air, hanging out with friends and/or family, you're going to have a good time every single visit.  Hey, its really icy in the afternoon?  Get up early in the morning, spin your laps for 4 hours, and head to the bar or hot tub, watch some sports, and enjoy the downtime.  I worked in a hotel here in Stowe for a while previously, as a moonlighting evening job, and I can tell you there are two types of guests.  The ones that bring all their life stresses with them on vacation and are sort of looking for a reason to be disappointed or unhappy, they are almost doomed from the start....and the others that are just so happy to be escaping their daily routine and not be at work, that they don't sweat the little things, they'll enjoy their vacation no matter what happens. 

 

Exactly. I love NNE and that is the reason why I go up there. 

 

Look I totally get it as far as free style goes. Totally understand. However, every single person I know who goes skiing for the most part just hits up the mtn. Only one or two of my friends are hard core back country guys and they don't care if they are relegated to the mtn because they love skiing. For the 99.5% of the people who are going and driving your economy, they are just going to take on the mtn and all the other great things you guys offer. And to that, my guess is they would still have a good time.

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Just curious, why can't Pico make snow?  Are they restricted by the state into only drawing a certain amount of water?

 

(and also curious as to why you used new skis on poor conditions?)

Pico has a small pond. They are very water restricted. I thought conditions were better than they were. It was New Year's Day. I did not ski Monday or Tuesday but I knew it snowed. I was really sick with a cold/flu and I went out for a run on those skis because I have been skiing on them the past 8 ski days or so and felt most secure/balanced on them. The natural snow trail I went down looked really good. It was my second run and the first was an easy snowmaking trail. Looks were deceiving. Which I guess is my point. With natural snow trails when we are talking base it's not just depth. It's consistency. The stuff on the ground before this rain at Killington/Pico was not a good base. It was super easy to break through. It skied thinner than it looked. And now even that is gone. As someone said, it's heartbreaking to get so much snow and have so little to show for it given that it's January and we have no storm to look forward to in the near future. Central VT and NNE are very different. For folks in central VT the click is ticking.

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Honestly i just have a Personal thing w attitash bc my relatives are there, my gf loves N conway and i am sorta stuck skiing it.

 

 

When I'm in Glen we usually just do the drive to Wildcat despite Attitash proximity.   I've had some fun days at 'tash but I agree with you - kinda sucks for a # of reasons.

On a powder day I almost prefer Cranmore or Black to 'Tash.  lol

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Pico has a small pond. They are very water restricted. I thought conditions were better than they were. It was New Year's Day. I did not ski Monday or Tuesday but I knew it snowed. I was really sick with a cold/flu and I went out for a run on those skis because I have been skiing on them the past 8 ski days or so and felt most secure/balanced on them. The natural snow trail I went down looked really good. It was my second run and the first was an easy snowmaking trail. Looks were deceiving. Which I guess is my point. With natural snow trails when we are talking base it's not just depth. It's consistency. The stuff on the ground before this rain at Killington/Pico was not a good base. It was super easy to break through. It skied thinner than it looked. And now even that is gone. As someone said, it's heartbreaking to get so much snow and have so little to show for it given that it's January and we have no storm to look forward to in the near future. Central VT and NNE are very different. For folks in central VT the click is ticking.

 

I would never have guessed that.  There's a lot of potential reservoirs in that area.  Either regulation or lack of infrastructure investment prevented it?  It seems as though the American Skiing Company put Pico on the back burner while it developed Killington years back.  

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This.  I can already tell you that Winston/Messenger/Cweat/Rollo probably won't have a good time skiing at any resort/area until we get a series of big dumps.  Same maybe for Coventry.  Meanwhile, I have no doubt Ryan will have a good time, same goes for Ginxy, Hubbdave, or Radarman if they go skiing anywhere in the next couple weeks.  Its all in the attitude and exactly what you are looking to get out of the experience.

 

I b*tch and moan about it not being a great winter, but again as I stated earlier, those are for my own selfish reasons at this point.  I've gotten the opinion that some are skeptical when I say its good or bad, but as you guys have seen, I have no problem being a debbie at times, lol.  Its not marketing on here for me to say its awesome...honestly AmericanWx forums isn't driving skier visits one way or another.  It may boost ECMWF subscriptions, but this forum doesn't sell lift tickets.  I have pride in the mountain, sure, but I am generally realistic on conditions. 

 

The thing with skiing is you can go to a resort or mountain because the snow is awesome and its been an awesome weather pattern or whatever...but I've found that the vast majority of visitors are just here for the experience of "getting out there" and doing something fun with their friends or family.  Great conditions are a bonus, but take today for example...it was raining pretty steadily all morning, then changed to snow and froze up in the afternoon.  There were still people out there skiing and riding, heck even families with smiles, just laughing at the situation but you're out there with your family, sharing a memory.  If you get overly focused on conditions, every little brown patch or every little ice patch, its going to drive you crazy on the East Coast.  The snow conditions have generally been good and people have generally had a good time this season... its a different vibe than a 2011 or 2006 start, even if the numbers on paper aren't all that different for snowfall in places. 

 

If you are stoked to just be outside in the mountains, getting some fresh air, hanging out with friends and/or family, you're going to have a good time every single visit.  Hey, its really icy in the afternoon?  Get up early in the morning, spin your laps for 4 hours, and head to the bar or hot tub, watch some sports, and enjoy the downtime.  I worked in a hotel here in Stowe for a while previously, as a moonlighting evening job, and I can tell you there are two types of guests.  The ones that bring all their life stresses with them on vacation and are sort of looking for a reason to be disappointed or unhappy, they are almost doomed from the start....and the others that are just so happy to be escaping their daily routine and not be at work, that they don't sweat the little things, they'll enjoy their vacation no matter what happens. 

 

When you're skiing down those mountains with your kid on trails they're telling you are in good shape but they're actually car sized sheets of ice...come back and tell me you'll be having fun with your kids.  When Lazy River has big hand written signs telling people to beware of dangerous ice...as did other trails...that sucks.   I saw more people taken off in stretchers Friday-Saturday than I had in my entire life prior.  That was despite the glowing reports.   It also takes the fun out of it when you have more to worry about than yourself...IE when you're skiing with little ones.   We will see how Scooters attitude (and yours for that matter) changes when he's skiing with little scooter down icy trails when the reports are all glowing.  Give me either well groomed trails or trails with fresh snow on them...not "packed" powder that is really a trace of snow covering ice harder than TD Banknorth underneath :)

 

There's this perception from people 300-400 miles away that haven't had a ski on a mountain all winter that things are "great" because they read all the fluff mountain reports that make it sound like we're a flurry away from Solden.   That's not the case....again not bad, but I'll wait for some real snow before I go back because as most know the reports are usually full of more fluff than a 3 day upslope event.  Everyone likes to poke fun at Jay Peak....they may be the worst but they certainly aren't the only ones that stretch the truth for marketing purposes.  I'd argue that come Wednesday the conditions at a place like WaWa aren't going to be dramatically different than many other places because most of the snow is man made right now everywhere.

 

I do think the ice storm made for some trying conditions.  Maybe they're busting through that with repeated groomings I don't know.  I kind of wish I had taken some pictures of the sheet ice at the top of some of the trails at both BW and SR.  Glacial but maybe it's melted out or broken up. I do know based on what SkiVT is saying, we experienced similar conditions hundreds of miles apart despite what on paper should have been good conditions.  The only ones trying to tell us differently are guys that either work for mountains or haven't actually skied much/at all in NNE/at these resorts this year.

 

 

Otherwise I agree with SkiVT, guys keep talking about actual depths and what we're trying to tell you is all measurements aren't the same.  Many of these places need more snow and IMO some of that is because of the thick layer of ice lurking in the middle of the pack on many of these trails.  I skied down trails with supposed 3 foot bases that had rocks, dirt, tree branches and everything else in them.   The couple of mountains I've hit this year all need a good dump to round out the rough patches. 

 

Here's to hoping for either mild day conditions...no ice, or some serious and significant snow up north.

 

By all means go have fun and be merry...but at $200-300 a day for tickets etc I'll wait until conditions either soften up or fluff up before doing more than a day trip.  I've been down that road for 5-6 days where all the reports indicated one thing and like SkiVT I found the opposite.  Again not bad if I was someone in from Georgia for a weekend back in the northeast....but not good enough to make the trip again until things improve given the local choice.

 

Don't get me wrong..I think the mountains have done a great job.  I do think maybe they spread out onto more trails thinking they wouldn't be losing as much ground periodically instead of fully dumping on some trails.  Normally that is fine, this year not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

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Currently sitting at 4,800 ft. on top of Snowshoe Mountain in WV. Winds are gusting quite strong with a temp of around -10. I suppose they'll be firing the guns tomorrow although I'm not sure about minimum temps.

 

Windchill tomorrow will be -50 on top of the mountain. I'm sort of nervous yet excited at the same time. Guess I'll need to buy that full head mask I've always avoided.

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A majority of those that chimed in and were frustrated were people that have actually skied up north this winter....and frustrated for the very reasons you mentioned.  I saw first hand how 6-12" dramatically improved conditions and a lot of that just got damaged again by this mess.  It's frustrating...and I can only imagine being in your shoes.  Those that are saying it's fine are primarily reading reports or snow maps that don't really paint a true picture of what's gone on.  I was looking forward to two days this weekend and now that is out.  I just have no interest in skiing on that same type of terrain again like a week ago.  The hard packed ice isn't fun to me nor is skiing for 2 hours in the morning and calling it a day after first lift.

 

The amalgam of man made snow, ice, sleet, some powder, more ice and mess...it's a weird ski base.   Barring this stupid mild up today the next week or so was NBD, but this did sting again today.

 

Hopefully we can jam a nice snow event in the hills in this transition pattern before MLK.  I'm sure by the weekend SR and other places will be mostly recovered but like some of the others that chimed in, I'll wait for some natural and hit it later into the year.

I have 14 days in at sugarbush coming up from ny on weekends and holidays. I would say all but 2 or 3 were in good conditions with limited if any ice or boilerplate. Sure there have been various trails which are to be avoided at times. There were days where I just did laps on the same groomer. But There is a ton of snow made due to the low temps and all snow making trails are open and buried. That is not something we can always say on 1/6. I have caught 3 legitimate powder days which is above average at this point. Thanksgiving and early December were really good.

I want to get into the woods as much as anyone (especially since my wife has started to hound me about high speed bombing the cruisers), see our discussion in the NNE thread. But this season has not been so bad to date. I may be singing a different tune if mlk comes and we are still on the schneid, but for now, it's been average, at worst.

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Anyone know someone who works at Berkshire east? Trying to feature them for our weekly ski report on Wednesday but no one there has called me back.

Yes!

Mark bennett is their mtn ops guy @ x306, or their marketing guy, christopher loftus.

Pm me with your contact info if you'd like a call from either of them in the morning...

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