Ridge Builds In - Humidity Sticks Around - Wx Disc

[joey2002]

Kev, you should do a damage survey/tour of your own and post the findings with some photos...if I felt that strongly about something like that, I'd be sure to do that.

 

The other tip is ALWAYS have your phone or some sort of camera on you when there's even the slightest risk of severe weather.

 

Yeah that's not a bad idea.

 

Here's the path of damage I drew up last night for those who missed it:

 

[Nate]

Been watching a little shower (the one near Medfield) that has been desperately trying to maintain itself (can see the cloud perfectly from here).  Looked better earlier with a small anvil.  I'd like to get some rain around here.  I've been in one of the screw zones, everything passing north or south, and have had 0.28" this month.  Last few runs of HRRR seem to insist on 1" + rain tonight after 9PM, not sure where that's coming from and highly doubt it will happen.

[Damage In Tolland]

I don't think that is the case...They didn't give the cell a Severe Thunderstorm Warning either, so it's a lose-lose for them. If it's not conclusive enough, I don't think it would be fair for them to label it as a tornado.

Dont you think if it was a microburst it would have been seen on the wind velocities? Why wasn't a severe issued on it? I realize it wasn't clear there was a TOR on radar but the images posted clearly show a hook or appendage. It was there whether folks admit it or not. What I and other eyewitnesses saw doesnt matter and noone cares about. Understood. I'm not here to make things up. The dude on the video also says" there's debris in the air". The same thing I saw. It wasn't circling around hundreds of feet up from a straight line wind . In the end no one cares and it goes down as a microburst. I'm just offering what I and plenty others witnessed. I've seen plenty of microbursts in this area over the years. This was not like any of those.

[Damage In Tolland]

Did you see the survey team today? You should have shown them the pics/video that you had. By the time I got there last night it was already dark, so I couldn't get any photos, but I could clearly tell that trees weren't all down in the same direction. Also, the damage followed a clear path that I drew on the google map this morning.

No they did not contact me. A spotter and eyewitness

[CoastalWx]

A microburst can be real localized too kevin...something that can come and go in between radar scans. 

[joey2002]

Has there ever been a confirmed tornado in Tolland?

[powderfreak]

Kev bucket list cross off cancel?

If I saw a true funnel cloud, Id count that as a TOR on my bucket list haha.

[powderfreak]

For them to claim that is simply not true. I think it's a CYA type of thing since it wasn't warned. I saw sheared treetops in several areas, as well as trees twisted..Not simply 50 trees laying NW to SE all snapped off.

I even took a few pics of them

Pics are worth a thousand words. Prove them wrong and post some pics of cyclonic damage.

[joey2002]

If I saw a true funnel cloud, Id count that as a TOR on my bucket list haha.

 

I think NWS acknowledged the funnel cloud, but just said they didn't find any evidence that it touched down.

[dryslot]

A microburst can be real localized too kevin...something that can come and go in between radar scans. 

 

I got to witness one in the lakes region here in 2006, It laid down a swath for about a 2 mile stretch but damage was pretty much one direction but was still extensive

[weatherwiz]

Has there ever been a confirmed tornado in Tolland?

 

Two closest were August 20th, 2951 when an F2 occurred in Willington on the Tolland Turnpike near Willington Hill Rd and another F2 on September 7th, 1958 on Babcock Rd which I also think is Willington

 

http://www.tornadohistoryproject.com/custom/3166683

[Quincy]

I think NWS acknowledged the funnel cloud, but just said they didn't find any evidence that it touched down.

What kind of debris was in the air, by the way? It's conceivable that a funnel cloud could full twigs, leaves and bits of trees up into the air. If there was no damage close to ground level, it can't be "confirmed" as a tornado touchdown.

[Ian]

Dont you think if it was a microburst it would have been seen on the wind velocities? Why wasn't a severe issued on it? I realize it wasn't clear there was a TOR on radar but the images posted clearly show a hook or appendage. It was there whether folks admit it or not. What I and other eyewitnesses saw doesnt matter and noone cares about. Understood. I'm not here to make things up. The dude on the video also says" there's debris in the air". The same thing I saw. It wasn't circling around hundreds of feet up from a straight line wind . In the end no one cares and it goes down as a microburst. I'm just offering what I and plenty others witnessed. I've seen plenty of microbursts in this area over the years. This was not like any of those.

 

joe d seemed to imply microburst was just common language not necessarily what happened. in a lot of tornadoes there is a similar track path from rfd damage near the main damage zone. but in the end as far as records it's either a tornado or wind so the word doesn't really matter that much unless you're a weenie.

[ct_yankee]

After studying the videos, I'm going to have to go with Kevin, I think this was a tornado -  very weak and brief, but it just doesn't look or feel like a microburst to me. There is clearly borderline tornadic-scale motion in the clouds, and more than a hint of rotation. Also, on that first video there is a moment towards the end when the camera very briefly pans right, it's about 1:38 into the vid, and if you freeze it right there you can clearly see what looks very much like a vortex tube kicking up debris. It's only visible for less than a second, so obviously there's no way to tell if it's really rotating, so it could well be scud, but combined with everything else, the motion, debris seen up in the air, the eyewitness reports of funnels, the climo stuff Quincy posted, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to Blizz and say it's a tor. I am by no means absolutely sure about this, it's not clear cut, but I would vote tornado over microburst. I do agree that most of the damage could well have been from RFD and not directly from the funnel itself, but still... I'm gonna go with tornado, if only just barely. And I've seen my share of tornadoes, both in CT and on the Great Plains.

[SouthernNJ]

It is unfortunate that most of Connecticut is out of the range

of TDWR's.  That would make things a little easier to determine

if one had a close look at such a storm.  This is also why

many tornadoes are difficult to detect from radar in this area from

a WFO Taunton standpoint.  As far as the other storm is concerned,

it had a very pronounced mesocyclone for numerous scans, even

with the NEXRAD not being all that close to it.  I did not expect

that small mini-supercell to last as long as it did.

[weatherwiz]

It is unfortunate that most of Connecticut is out of the range

of TDWR's.  That would make things a little easier to determine

if one had a close look at such a storm.  This is also why

many tornadoes are difficult to detect from radar in this area from

a WFO Taunton standpoint.  As far as the other storm is concerned,

it had a very pronounced mesocyclone for numerous scans, even

with the NEXRAD not being all that close to it.  I did not expect

that small mini-supercell to last as long as it did.

 

Channel 3 has like their own doppler..not quite a TDWR but there has been times in the past where their radar showed a storm that was quite low topped and BOX/ENX/OKX weren't picking it up b/c the beams were too far but their radar showed severe.  There was a classic case of this that happened in the early 2000's I think.  

[Damage In Tolland]

Here is what I think happened. All of the damage occurred at elevations above about 750-800 feet. There was none below that. The worst damage occurred on Loehr Rd which is the highest area over there and the highest area of Mountainview Rd. That is where I think it actually made contact with the ground. I think below that it was mostly a "treetop" tornado and was sucking debris up into the funnel. Does that make sense?

[Quincy]

Two closest were August 20th, 2951 when an F2 occurred in Willington on the Tolland Turnpike near Willington Hill Rd and another F2 on September 7th, 1958 on Babcock Rd which I also think is Willington

 

http://www.tornadohistoryproject.com/custom/3166683

Here's an overlay of Connecticut towns and SPC tornado tracks (1962-2011) to get another perspective.

[Christina311]

What the hell kind of spider is this. Holy crap bit huge! Like 2-3" across.

uploadfromtaptalk1373576121439.jpg

uploadfromtaptalk1373576135006.jpg

 

That's not a spider. It's not rotating, and the legs aren't going in the right direction. It's just a micro-monster.

[powderfreak]

Here is what I think happened. All of the damage occurred at elevations above about 750-800 feet. There was none below that. The worst damage occurred on Loehr Rd which is the highest area over there and the highest area of Mountainview Rd. That is where I think it actually made contact with the ground. I think below that it was mostly a "treetop" tornado and was sucking debris up into the funnel. Does that make sense?

That sounds legit. No doubt there was a funnel at all...just whether or not it made meaningful impact with the ground.

Essentially what I've gathered by NWS standards is that it could have been a brief tornado but the evidence was inconclusive (to them) and without 100% confidence, they always err to the side of straight line wind damage.

It seems like they assume straightline wind damage and need to prove it was a tornado that touched down, vs. the other way around (assuming tornado and looking for evidence to prove that it wasn't).

[joey2002]

Two closest were August 20th, 2951 when an F2 occurred in Willington on the Tolland Turnpike near Willington Hill Rd and another F2 on September 7th, 1958 on Babcock Rd which I also think is Willington

 

http://www.tornadohistoryproject.com/custom/3166683

 

Here's an overlay of Connecticut towns and SPC tornado tracks (1962-2011) to get another perspective.

ctTOR.png

 

Very cool, thanks for the great link and info!

[Damage In Tolland]

After studying the videos, I'm going to have to go with Kevin, I think this was a tornado - very weak and brief, but it just doesn't look or feel like a microburst to me. There is clearly borderline tornadic-scale motion in the clouds, and more than a hint of rotation. Also, on that first video there is a moment towards the end when the camera very briefly pans right, it's about 1:38 into the vid, and if you freeze it right there you can clearly see what looks very much like a vortex tube kicking up debris. It's only visible for less than a second, so obviously there's no way to tell if it's really rotating, so it could well be scud, but combined with everything else, the motion, debris seen up in the air, the eyewitness reports of funnels, the climo stuff Quincy posted, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to Blizz and say it's a tor. I am by no means absolutely sure about this, it's not clear cut, but I would vote tornado over microburst. I do agree that most of the damage could well have been from RFD and not directly from the funnel itself, but still... I'm gonna go with tornado, if only just barely. And I've seen my share of tornadoes, both in CT and on the Great Plains.

Great writeup and disco . Thanks for that. Great stuff. For this to go down as a microburst in history is a shame. Clearly that is not what this was as the video shows. As long as folks understand that we are all ok.

[Christina311]

Here's the other one. No turning there either?

The rotation is obvious in that one, but what I really noticed was the sound. That waterfall sound. But it is hard to tell if it reached the ground.

 

My non-expert opinion is that it was probably an EF0, on the ground for a couple of miles or less. I doubt the damage from a weak tornado would show the more obvious circular damage patterns of a stronger tornado. I don't think that was a microburst. Do they have a microburst quota or something?

[powderfreak]

Great writeup and disco . Thanks for that. Great stuff. For this to go down as a microburst in history is a shame. Clearly that is not what this was as the video shows. As long as folks understand that we are all ok.

Does it really matter in the grand scheme whether it was 50-70mph winds going straight vs. 50-70mph winds or EF0 going in a cyclonic motion?

I know it matters to you, as it would to me if I saw it, but who really cares what the official record states?

[Christina311]

After studying the videos, I'm going to have to go with Kevin, I think this was a tornado -  very weak and brief, but it just doesn't look or feel like a microburst to me. There is clearly borderline tornadic-scale motion in the clouds, and more than a hint of rotation. Also, on that first video there is a moment towards the end when the camera very briefly pans right, it's about 1:38 into the vid, and if you freeze it right there you can clearly see what looks very much like a vortex tube kicking up debris. It's only visible for less than a second, so obviously there's no way to tell if it's really rotating, so it could well be scud, but combined with everything else, the motion, debris seen up in the air, the eyewitness reports of funnels, the climo stuff Quincy posted, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to Blizz and say it's a tor. I am by no means absolutely sure about this, it's not clear cut, but I would vote tornado over microburst. I do agree that most of the damage could well have been from RFD and not directly from the funnel itself, but still... I'm gonna go with tornado, if only just barely. And I've seen my share of tornadoes, both in CT and on the Great Plains.

Yes! 1:38. I took a screenshot of that frame and messed around with the contrast last night and it looked pretty obvious to me. When I was watching it I was hoping the driver was going to jump out of the car right there and get a more direct shot.

[Damage In Tolland]

The rotation is obvious in that one, but what I really noticed was the sound. That waterfall sound. But it is hard to tell if it reached the ground.

My non-expert opinion is that it was probably an EF0, on the ground for a couple of miles or less. I doubt the damage from a weak tornado would show the more obvious circular damage patterns of a stronger tornado. I don't think that was a microburst. Do they have a microburst quota or something?

My honest opinion and its just that an opinion.. And not a dig,, is that they got in a lot of trouble after the Springfield TOR which was OTG for 20 mins before it was warned. They are being scrutinized much more so now and if they didn't have a TOR warning out for it, and then confirm there in fact was a TOR during the survey they are going to be penalized and questioned by their higher ups.

[Damage In Tolland]

Does it really matter in the grand scheme whether it was 50-70mph winds going straight vs. 50-70mph winds or EF0 going in a cyclonic motion?

I know it matters to you, as it would to me if I saw it, but who really cares what the official record states?

Again yes to me it does matter. I know what I and others saw. To everyone else I know it doesn't matter and no one cares what I think. I just don't want people to think this was straight line wind damage because that's not what it was.

[joey2002]

Yes! 1:38. I took a screenshot of that frame and messed around with the contrast last night and it looked pretty obvious to me. When I was watching it I was hoping the driver was going to jump out of the car right there and get a more direct shot.

 

I thought the same exact thing! 

 

If he stopped and got better video of it at that point, it's probably the difference in this being classified as a tornado vs. microburst. 

 

[Ginx snewx]

My honest opinion and its just that an opinion.. And not a dig,, is that they got in a lot of trouble after the Springfield TOR which was OTG for 20 mins before it was warned. They are being scrutinized much more so now and if they didn't have a TOR warning out for it, and then confirm there in fact was a TOR during the survey they are going to be penalized and questioned by their higher ups.

No

[andyhb]

My honest opinion and its just that an opinion.. And not a dig,, is that they got in a lot of trouble after the Springfield TOR which was OTG for 20 mins before it was warned. They are being scrutinized much more so now and if they didn't have a TOR warning out for it, and then confirm there in fact was a TOR during the survey they are going to be penalized and questioned by their higher ups.

 

This is an entirely different situation altogether.