NIPCC Report to be accepted by the CAS

[Snow_Miser]

This is pretty big IMO. The NIPCC report (skeptic report) will be translated and published by the Chinese Academy of Sciences, one of the most prestigious scientific groups in the world.

 

From the link:

 

The Chinese Academy of Sciences is the world’s largest academy of sciences, employing some 50,000 people and hosting more than 350 international conferences a year. Membership in the Academy represents the highest level of national honor for Chinese scientists. The Nature Publishing Index in May ranked the Chinese Academy of Sciences No. 12 on its list of the “Global Top 100” scientific institutions – ahead of the University of Oxford (No. 14), Yale University (No. 16), and the California Institute of Technology (No. 25).

 

The Chinese Academy of Sciences is set to present the publication on June 15 at a major ceremony in Beijing. The Academy employs approximately 50,000 people and hosts 350 international conferences each year, and is one of the most prestigious scientific academies in the world, ranked ahead of every Ivy League school save Harvard

 

Jim Lakely, director of communications at the Heartland Institute, told Breitbart News, “Translating and publishing nearly 1,300 pages of peer-reviewed scientific literature from English to Chinese is no small task, and indicative of how important CAS considers Climate Change Reconsidered to the global climate change debate. That CAS has invited the authors and editors of Climate Change Reconsidered to a conference this Saturday in Beijing to introduce the studies is yet another indicator of how important it is to get this information out to a wider audience.”

 

Thoughts?

[Jonger]

Playing devils advocate here, the Chinese government would probably fawn over skeptical information due to there difficulty  in cutting emissions. 

[The_Global_Warmer]

They are also spending 65 millon dollars to super study the Tibetan plateau because of the incredible melt taking place there.

 

I am not surprised.  I would think that places that far South no matter how high in elevation will obviously only require small changes in heat flux/temperature to see rapid changes in melting.

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/05/130516-everest-shrinking-ice-glaciers-science-global-warming/
 

 

 

Snowlines in the national park have shifted upslope some 590 feet (180 meters), Thakuri said.

"The temperature trend shows that temperature has increased in pre-monsoon months, which can cause rapid melting of glaciers in the pre-monsoon, and also in winter months, which can [reduce] snow accumulation," he said.

About 87 percent of the precipitation above 16,400 feet (5,000 meters) occurs during the four-month monsoon season, he added, and that precipitation has decreased.

 

 

 

Big Thaw

Small glaciers appear to be melting most quickly, according to Thakuri, a resident of Nepal's Kathmandu Valley.

Those glaciers smaller than about a third of a square mile (1 square kilometer) have shrank in surface area by 43 percent since the 1960s, while their boundaries have retreated upslope some 1,312 feet (400 meters) during that time.

 

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/04/tibetan-plateau/larmer-text/2

 

 

 

The Tibetan Plateau as a whole is heating up twice as fast as the global average of 1.3°F over the past century—and in some places even faster. These warming rates, unprecedented for at least two millennia, are merciless on the glaciers, whose rare confluence of high altitudes and low latitudes make them especially sensitive to shifts in climate.

For thousands of years the glaciers have formed what Lonnie Thompson, a glaciologist at Ohio State University, calls "Asia's freshwater bank account"—an immense storehouse whose buildup of new ice and snow (deposits) has historically offset its annual runoff (withdrawals). Glacial melt plays its most vital role before and after the rainy season, when it supplies a greater portion of the flow in every river from the Yangtze (which irrigates more than half of China's rice) to the Ganges and the Indus (key to the agricultural heartlands of India and Pakistan).

But over the past half century, the balance has been lost, perhaps irrevocably. Of the 680 glaciers Chinese scientists monitor closely on the Tibetan Plateau, 95 percent are shedding more ice than they're adding, with the heaviest losses on its southern and eastern edges. "These glaciers are not simply retreating," Thompson says. "They're losing mass from the surface down." The ice cover in this portion of the plateau has shrunk more than 6 percent since the 1970s—and the damage is still greater in Tajikistan and northern India, with 35 percent and 20 percent declines respectively over the past five decades.

 

If current trends hold, Chinese scientists believe that 40 percent of the plateau's glaciers could disappear by 2050. "Full-scale glacier shrinkage is inevitable," says Yao Tandong, a glaciologist at China's Institute of Tibetan Plateau Research. "And it will lead to ecological catastrophe."

 

 

 

The potential impacts extend far beyond the glaciers. On the Tibetan Plateau, especially its dry northern flank, people are already affected by a warmer climate. The grasslands and wetlands are deteriorating, and the permafrost that feeds them with spring and summer melt is retreating to higher elevations. Thousands of lakes have dried up. Desert now covers about one-sixth of the plateau, and in places sand dunes lap across the highlands like waves in a yellow sea. The herders who once thrived here are running out of options.

Along the plateau's southern edge, by contrast, many communities are coping with too much water. In alpine villages like Mingyong, the glacial melt has swelled rivers, with welcome side effects: expanded croplands and longer growing seasons. But such benefits often hide deeper costs. In Mingyong, surging meltwater has carried away topsoil; elsewhere, excess runoff has been blamed for more frequent flooding and landslides. In the mountains from Pakistan to Bhutan, thousands of glacial lakes have formed, many potentially unstable. Among the more dangerous is Imja Tsho, at 16,400 feet on the trail to Nepal's Island Peak. Fifty years ago the lake didn't exist; today, swollen by melt, it is a mile long and 300 feet deep. If it ever burst through its loose wall of moraine, it would drown the Sherpa villages in the valley below.

 

But nothing compares to the campaign in China, which has less water than Canada but 40 times more people. In the vast desert in the Xin­jiang region, just north of the Tibetan Plateau, China aims to build 59 reservoirs to capture and save glacial runoff. Across Tibet, artillery batteries have been installed to launch rain-inducing silver iodide into the clouds. In Qinghai the government is blocking off degraded grasslands in hopes they can be nurtured back to health. In areas where grasslands have already turned to scrub desert, bales of wire fencing are rolled out over the last remnants of plant life to prevent them from blowing away.

 

It's good China cares enough to make moves.  But they will get desperate soon.  There is no on one who can tell them what to do or not to do.

 

Ironically there huge aerosol issue has likely helped keep the region cooler  over the denser pockets.  I recall reading up to 5-6W/m2 is blocked in some places.

 

So I am going with China want's no more warming at all.  Skeptism might arise about CAGW. Maybe they will go with 1.5-2C more global warming vs 3C+.  But for China every little bit more of warming will cause the ice they rely on to melt x10,x100, x1000 more than the global temp rise or local.  We have underestimated the ice albedo feedback and how much it effects melt rates when temperatures are "stagnant" and major warming is essentially in more regionalized areas that are effected directly by the local surface albedo change.

 

We tended to focus more on how would ice melt/ice albedo feedback effect global temps vs how much will it effect the ice melt.  I have gone over 150 images from all over the Tibetan glaciers.  The reoccurring theme was dirty ice.  Dark materials/particles stay within the ice even during strong water flow.  The dirty particles get embedded into the soft ice during melt season, probably because they are possibly heavier but also collect more energy directly melting a nice hole to slide into. 

 

 

 

 

[Snow_Miser]

Not sure what you're trying to get at Friv.

[The_Global_Warmer]

Not sure what you're trying to get at Friv.

 

China is already facing serious climate change threats.  Because the fresh water Supply is being eradicated.  Melt has accelerated.  Even without the lower precip to help add Ice mass loss. 90%+ of the glaciers tied to the fresh water supply in India, China, and Afghanistan. 

 

The water from the "third pole" currently supply's 1.4 billion people.

 

http://www.nature.com/news/tibetan-glaciers-shrinking-rapidly-1.11010

 

The status of the glaciers has been a point of contention. Earlier this year, an analysis of 7 years' worth of measurements taken by the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) satellite mission suggested² that high-altitude Asian glaciers on the whole are losing ice only one-tenth as fast as previously estimated, and that glaciers on the Tibetan plateau are actually growing.

Yao and his colleagues analysed satellite measurements of the lengths and surface areas of about 7,100 glaciers. They also studied changes in the mass balance — the difference between accumulation and loss of ice — of 15 glaciers that they have painstakingly measured for decades.

 

“The majority of the glaciers have been shrinking rapidly across the studied area in the past 30 years,” says Yao. And the rate of retreat has been accelerating.

But embedded in this general trend, says Yao, is a large variation in different parts of the Third Pole. For instance, glaciers in the Himalayas are retreating faster on average than those in the Karakoram and the Pamir.

 

The Grace team didn't even make an argument.  They really botches that one up.  Grace's resolution is 200Km2.  They should have been more careful before going to press with misunderstood data.

 

The study raises serious issues with assessments based on GRACE measurements. Some climate scientists say that the measurements were taken over too short a time to capture the impact of climate change. Others question whether the satellite is suited to studying ice changes in the Third Pole.

The Tibetan plateau contains closed catchments where glacier melts can be stored in lakes, the soil and underground. A survey by Yao and his colleagues found that the area of glacial lakes on the plateau has increased by about 26% since the 1970s. “As the GRACE satellites can only feel the gravitational pull and can’t tell the difference between ice and liquid water, they may have mistaken expanding glacial lakes for increases in glacier mass,” says Yao.

John Wahr, a remote-sensing expert at the University of Colorado Boulder and lead author of the GRACE study, concedes that the criticism is valid. “This is an important weakness of GRACE for any non-polar glacier study,” he says.

“The study highlights the complexity of glacier responses in the region and the importance of ground truth for making accurate assessments,” says Lonnie Thompson, a glaciologist at Ohio State University in Columbus, and a co-author of the latest paper. “Mass-balance studies are extremely labour intensive and can often be dangerous, but there is never a substitute for boots on the ground.”

 

 

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-03-25/news/38010254_1_glaciers-mass-balance-black-carbon

 

 

BEIJING: About 90 percent of glaciers in Tibet called the Third Pole region, are shrinking because of black carbon pollution "transferred from South Asia" to the Tibeta

 

 

Black Carbon blanketing the region is bad news bears.

 

An investigation using topographic maps and satellite images revealed the retreat of 82 glaciers, area reduction by 7,090 glaciers and the mass-balance change of 15 glaciers, the Daily report said.

"Systematic differences in glacier status are apparent from region to region, with the most pronounced shrinkage in the Himalayas, the south eastern part of the region. Some of the glaciers there are very likely to disappear by 2030," Yao said.

 

 

http://www.nature.com/news/glaciologists-to-target-third-pole-1.10382

lack of funding”.

 

The study sites have been chosen to help tease apart the key factors in a glacier’s fate — such as elevation, topography, geographical setting, climate and the type of debris that covers the ice. “The flagship glaciers are pieces of the puzzle of climate responses on the Third Pole,” says Yao Tandong, director of the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Tibetan Plateau Research (ITP) in Beijing, and chairman of the TPE’s science committee. Using standardized methods at each site, the team hopes to discern how glaciers in different parts of the Third Pole are responding, and what is driving the changes. The team will put the information collected during the study into a public database after a proprietary period of a couple of years, says Yao.

A 2007 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projected that Himalayan glaciers could disappear as early as 2035 — but that claim turned out to be baseless. “The exact health status of the glaciers is still an unsettled issue,” says Shresth Tayal, a glaciologist at the Energy and Resources Institute in New Delhi. Researchers currently tend to rely on satellite measurements of the region’s glaciers to keep tabs on the glaciers’ surface areas and end points. “This can be misleading,” says Tian Lide, a glaciologist at the ITP, who has been conducting field measurements of glacier mass balance for two decades. “Some glaciers may have the same or even increased surface area but are in fact thinning.”

A 2010 study using measurements taken by the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) satellite mission indicated that the Third Pole is shedding roughly 50 gigatonnes of ice per year¹. And an unpublished inventory of Tibetan glaciers led by Liu Shiyin at the Cold and Arid Regions Environmental and Engineering Research Institute in Lanzhou, China, shows that more than 70% of the glaciers on the Tibetan plateau are retreating. But an analysis² this year of GRACE data suggests that overall, high-altitude Asian glaciers are losing ice only one-tenth as fast as the previous estimates, and that those in the Tibetan Plateau are actually growing on average.

High-stakes data

Yet many glaciologists are skeptical about the latest GRACE results. “When satellite data are in stark contrast to what many glaciologists have experienced through decades of field research, one must question their validity,” says Pradeep Mool, a remote-sensing expert at the International Centre for Integrated Mountain Development in Kathmandu, Nepal.

Detailed analyses of 25 glaciers will not settle the controversy, but “they’re a good starting point”, says glaciologist Koji Fujita at Nagoya University in Japan. As well as assessing mass balance, the team will set up several comprehensive observatories to monitor the weather and solar radiation and measure properties of the snow, soil and ice, says Daqing Yang, a hydrologist at Environment Canada in Gatineau, who is involved in the study. It will also test methods for measuring snow amounts at high elevations — “a missing but badly needed piece of information in mountain research”, says Yang.

Imtiaz Rangwala, a climatologist at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey, who is not involved in the TPE, says that the stations may help to resolve a pressing problem about climate change in high regions. Many climate simulations suggest that higher elevations will warm faster than lower ones, but Rangwala and his colleague James Miller reported last month that many mountain regions do not follow such a clear pattern³. The campaign, he says “will bridge a major knowledge gap in mountain research, especially at a time when high-elevation observatory stations elsewhere are at risk of being closed down due to

 

 

 

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21577341-worlds-third-largest-area-ice-about-undergo-systematic

 

Until recently studies of the Third Pole were piecemeal—not surprising, given its remoteness, the altitude, the harsh weather and the fact that little love is lost between the countries among which it is divided. In 2009, however, Yao Tandong of the Institute of Tibetan Plateau Research, in Beijing, Lonnie Thompson of the Ohio State University and Volker Mosbrugger of the Senckenberg World of Biodiversity, in Frankfurt, started an international programme involving these countries, called the Third Pole Environment (TPE). Last month, its fourth workshop met in Dehradun, India.

 

 

A Himalayan task

One outcome of the workshop, then, has been to establish that the overall ice cover of the Third Pole, like that of the two real poles, is shrinking. Another is to show how precarious and piecemeal data about the area are. Its role as the source of so many rivers means that absence of data matters. The Chinese Academy of Sciences, of which both Dr Yao’s and Dr Wu’s institutes are part, has therefore set up a fund of 400m yuan ($65m) for research on the Third Pole and, crucially, a quarter of this is earmarked for work outside China.

The TPE’s researchers will now monitor a set of bellwether glaciers every six months. They will set up observatories to measure solar radiation, snowfall, melt-water and changes in the soil, as well as air temperature, pressure, humidity and wind. And they plan to take cores from the ice on the Tibetan plateau. These will let them reconstruct the area’s climate over the past few hundred thousand years. Together, these data will give them a better grip on how much—and why—the Third Pole is changing.

 

 

I tried to highlight what they are finding.  After the Grace data came out and it got around to the people in the region.  Just about everywhere except the Far NW corner.  Immediately threw the flag on it saying it completely wrong.

 

http://glacierchange.wordpress.com/

 

My point is the Chinese Science academy might try to refute the larger warming like 3C+ by 2100 or something.

 

But they know also know they are staring down a major crises.  The Tibet region isn't like GIS or Antarctica.  Even at the high elevations just the slight warming so far and darkening of many glaciers is causing a rapidly acceleration and change.  In some areas over a couple decades the permanent snow line has gone up 1000FT.  Because this is a very regional problem.

 

http://www.mairs-essp.org/UserFiles/File/TPWarming&EASM.pdf

 

That paper explains the situation.

 

You can also flip through Rutgers monthly climo and see that once May ends a huge snow deficit persists all Summer.

 

My point is China is in the midst of an ecological disaster brought on by climate change.

 

No matter what the Science academy says unless the glaciers stop the course they are on now.  China will do anything to avoid having that ecosystem ruined.

[PhillipS]

Here is an excerpt from the Chinese Academy of Science (CAS) response to Heartland's announcement:

 

Thank you for your attention to the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS). The news that you saw on the website of UCAS is actually a careless mistake caused by translation and compilation.

There is indeed a book named "Climate Change Reconsidered" to be published in China by the Lanzhou Branch of the National Science Library,  CAS, with a book release on June 15th. However, this is only a book cooperation between the Lanzhou Branch of the National Science Library and Heartland Institute, and is limited only to copy right trading, with no academic research work involved. 

A few CAS experts participated in the translation of the book, aiming to demonstrate different voices in the global scientific field to the Chinese science community, however, that does not mean that we CAS joined the research or agree with their view point; neither does it mean that CAS will decide "promote" the climate "skeptic" view or group.

 

It appears that Heartland somewhat inflated the importance of this development.

[HailMan06]

^^^^Whoops

[Snow_Miser]

 

Here is an excerpt from the Chinese Academy of Science (CAS) response to Heartland's announcement:

 

Thank you for your attention to the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS). The news that you saw on the website of UCAS is actually a careless mistake caused by translation and compilation.

There is indeed a book named "Climate Change Reconsidered" to be published in China by the Lanzhou Branch of the National Science Library,  CAS, with a book release on June 15th. However, this is only a book cooperation between the Lanzhou Branch of the National Science Library and Heartland Institute, and is limited only to copy right trading, with no academic research work involved. 

A few CAS experts participated in the translation of the book, aiming to demonstrate different voices in the global scientific field to the Chinese science community, however, that does not mean that we CAS joined the research or agree with their view point; neither does it mean that CAS will decide "promote" the climate "skeptic" view or group.

 

It appears that Heartland somewhat inflated the importance of this development.

 

 

Perhaps. Though it's still significant IMO.

[PhillipS]

Well, there were some interesting recent developments in this story.  The Chinese Academy of Science sent the Heartland Institute a demand latter.  An Excerpt:

 

The claim of the Heartland Institute about CAS’ endorsement of its report is completely false. To clarify the fact, we formally issue the following statements:

(1) The translation and publication of the Chinese version of the NIPCC report, and the related workshop, are purely non-official academic activities the group of translators. They do not represent, nor they have ever claimed to represent, CAS or any of CAS institutes. They translated the report and organized the workshop just for the purpose of academic discussion of different views.

(2) The above fact was made very clear in the Translators’ Note in the book, and was known to the NIPCC report authors and the Heartland Institute before the translation started. The false claim by the Heartland Institute was made public without any knowledge of the translator group.

(3) Since there is absolutely no ground for the so called CAS endorsement of the report, and the actions by the Heartland Institute went way beyond acceptable academic integrity, we have requested by email to the president of the Heartland Institute that the false news on its website to be removed. We also requested that the Institute issue a public apology to CAS for the misleading statement on the CAS endorsement.

(4) If the Heartland Institute does not withdraw its false news or refuse to apologize, all the consequences and liabilities should be borne by the Heartland Institute. We reserve the right for further actions to protect the rights of CAS and the translators group.

Information Center for Global Change Studies,

Scientific Information Center for Resources and Environment, Chinese Academy of Sciences, June 14, 2013.

 

 

Heartland's response:

 

"Earlier this week, the Information Center for Global Change Studies, an Information group of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, published a Chinese edition of 'Climate Change Reconsidered,' translating and combining the contents of two volumes in a series with the same title previously published by The Heartland Institute.

"Some people interpreted our news release and a blog post describing this event as implying that the Chinese Academy of Sciences endorses the views contained in the original books. This is not the case, and we apologize to those who may have been confused by these news reports.

 

"To be clear, the release of this new publication does not imply CAS and any of its affiliates involved with its production 'endorse' the skeptical views contained in the report. Rather, as stated in the translator's preface of the book, 'The work of these translators, organizations and funders has been in the translation and the promotion of scientific dialogue, does not reflect that they agree with the views of NIPCC.' "

 

This has been a good example of a denialist group trying to spread misinformation.  It may be a bit strong to say that anybody who trusts the Heartland Institute is an idiot - but only a little bit.

[Snow_Miser]

Well, there were some interesting recent developments in this story.  The Chinese Academy of Science sent the Heartland Institute a demand latter.  An Excerpt:

 

The claim of the Heartland Institute about CAS’ endorsement of its report is completely false. To clarify the fact, we formally issue the following statements:

(1) The translation and publication of the Chinese version of the NIPCC report, and the related workshop, are purely non-official academic activities the group of translators. They do not represent, nor they have ever claimed to represent, CAS or any of CAS institutes. They translated the report and organized the workshop just for the purpose of academic discussion of different views.

(2) The above fact was made very clear in the Translators’ Note in the book, and was known to the NIPCC report authors and the Heartland Institute before the translation started. The false claim by the Heartland Institute was made public without any knowledge of the translator group.

(3) Since there is absolutely no ground for the so called CAS endorsement of the report, and the actions by the Heartland Institute went way beyond acceptable academic integrity, we have requested by email to the president of the Heartland Institute that the false news on its website to be removed. We also requested that the Institute issue a public apology to CAS for the misleading statement on the CAS endorsement.

(4) If the Heartland Institute does not withdraw its false news or refuse to apologize, all the consequences and liabilities should be borne by the Heartland Institute. We reserve the right for further actions to protect the rights of CAS and the translators group.

Information Center for Global Change Studies,

Scientific Information Center for Resources and Environment, Chinese Academy of Sciences, June 14, 2013.

 

 

Heartland's response:

 

"Earlier this week, the Information Center for Global Change Studies, an Information group of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, published a Chinese edition of 'Climate Change Reconsidered,' translating and combining the contents of two volumes in a series with the same title previously published by The Heartland Institute.

"Some people interpreted our news release and a blog post describing this event as implying that the Chinese Academy of Sciences endorses the views contained in the original books. This is not the case, and we apologize to those who may have been confused by these news reports.

 

"To be clear, the release of this new publication does not imply CAS and any of its affiliates involved with its production 'endorse' the skeptical views contained in the report. Rather, as stated in the translator's preface of the book, 'The work of these translators, organizations and funders has been in the translation and the promotion of scientific dialogue, does not reflect that they agree with the views of NIPCC.' "

 

This has been a good example of a denialist group trying to spread misinformation.  It may be a bit strong to say that anybody who trusts the Heartland Institute is an idiot - but only a little bit.

 

Thanks for keeping on top of this Phillip. It definitely seems like the Heartland Institute misrepresented the CAS's views.

 

That being said, if they didn't think the NIPCC document was important, they wouldn't be translating it, even if they don't endorse all of the findings in the NIPCC.

[Snow_Miser]

embarrassing thread

 

Not necessarily. Comments that add no value to the discussion like the one above are far more embarrassing.

[SVT450R]

Not necessarily. Comments that add no value to the discussion like the one above are far more embarrassing.

Alek bring value to a discussion

[Snow_Miser]

Alek bring value to a discussion

 

Laughable indeed. His last two comments on the Climate Change Forum have consisted of a 2 word response, and a smiley.

[FloridaJohn]

the actions by the Heartland Institute went way beyond acceptable academic integrity

 

 This can be said of more things than just this example!

 

That being said, if they didn't think the NIPCC document was important, they wouldn't be translating it

 

Not necessarily. Maybe they just wanted to know what it said.

[The_Global_Warmer]

Given the the ecological crises currently underway in the India-China region.  I am not surprised to see this was nothing but BS.

 

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_14/

 

NEPAL: A warming climate is melting the glaciers of Mount Everest, shrinking the frozen cloak of Earth’s highest peak by 13% in the last 50 years, researchers have found.

Rocks and natural debris previously covered by snow are appearing now as the snow line has retreated 590 feet, according to Sudeep Thakuri, a University of Milan scientist who led the research.

The pessimistic view of Earth’s tallest peak was presented during a meeting Tuesday of the American Geophysical Union in Cancun, Mexico.

Researchers said they believe the observed changes could be due to human-generated greenhouse gases altering global climate, although their research has not established a firm connection.

The team reconstructed the glacial history of the area using satellite imagery and topographic maps of Everest and the surrounding 713-square-mile Sagarmatha National Park. Their statistical analysis shows that the majority of the glaciers in the national park are retreating at an increasing rate, Thakuri said.

Small glaciers of less than a square kilometre (about 247 acres), are vanishing fastest, registering a 43% decline in surface area since the 1960s.

Average temperatures have risen about one degree Fahrenheit since 1992, according data from the Nepal Climate Observatory stations and Nepal’s Department of Hydrology and Meteorology, the researchers found. Since 1992, precipitation has declined nearly four inches during the pre-monsoon and winter months, they found.

 

 

[Snow_Miser]

 

 

 

Not necessarily. Maybe they just wanted to know what it said.

 

Possible, but unlikely that they would want to translate a 1,200 page document just to see what it said.

[Jonger]

Alek bring value to a discussion

 

Laughable indeed. His last two comments on the Climate Change Forum have consisted of a 2 word response, and a smiley.

He once mentioned his career and it had something to do with environmental insurance, basically hyping catastrophe would increase his business. I don't know, he never clarifies it after I call him out on it.

[A-L-E-K]

He once mentioned his career and it had something to do with environmental insurance, basically hyping catastrophe would increase his business. I don't know, he never clarifies it after I call him out on it.

 

 

Link?

 

I work for an environmental consulting firm but in a capacity that has little if anything to do with AGW. Most of our clients are also large energy/industrial firms and it's certainly in our best corporate interest for them to remain profitable. Feel free to PM me if you want more details.

[A-L-E-K]

guess i'll take the no reply as an admission of lying...not surprised.

[Jonger]

guess i'll take the no reply as an admission of lying...not surprised.

I said insurance instead of consulting, well, according to what I read about environmental consulting, there is a wide range of services. I guess it all depends on if you are helping clients adapt to existing laws or "Go Green". Many firms are consulted by large companies attempting to improve PR with "Green innovation".

Anyhow, its definitely within the realm of reason to assume you have a degree in environmental management or application.

[A-L-E-K]

I said insurance instead of consulting, well, according to what I read about environmental consulting, there is a wide range of services. I guess it all depends on if you are helping clients adapt to existing laws or "Go Green" The former. Many firms are consulted by large companies attempting to improve PR with "Green innovation". Anyhow, its definitely within the realm of reason to assume you have a degree in environmental management or application. Economics