Tim Samaras, his son Paul and Carl Young

[Uncle Bobby]

I don't think we should legislate or police chasing through laws but I do think that the idiots out there should get called out and quickly de-emphasized as "legit"

This idea has been pushed as long as I've been chasing; since 1999, but it will never happen to any effective degree.  It's simply wishful thinking.

 

Chasing is dangerous.  Period.

 

By the time I had a couple seasons of experience under my belt, I thought I had a pretty good idea of what I was doing.  Today I look back and shudder at what I didn't know.  I'm sure ten years from now I will be mortified at what I don't know today.  If you didn't start out humble in a chasing career, you will be humble eventually, if you live to tell it.  I thank God for all the wonderment I have experienced.  Words truly cannot describe, which is what I tell non-chasers when I am asked why I chase.

[Bozart]

I don't think we should legislate or police chasing through laws but I do think that the idiots out there should get called out and quickly de-emphasized as "legit"...unfortunately, some of them are who gather large followings in social media.  Like I said, I doubt anything really changes but the weather community does need to reflect on this a bit.

Just ostracize the screamers. No other litmus necessary. That alone would clean up chasing a good deal. Realize that if they are screaming, they are only selling, only prostituting themselves. It's a dead giveaway...no pun intended.

[Jim Marusak]

guys and gals, for what it's worth, being the TCMS vp up here, I actually got interviewed yesterday afternoon by one of the reporters, as well as more experienced chaser John Wetter, by the Star Tribune. And believe it or not, I actually got quoted by the journalist. why me instead of others, I'm not sure, other than I was probably the one that responded first on a Sunday afternoon to a phone call between 4p and 5p. but for what it's worth, here's a link to the article.

 

http://www.startribune.com/nation/209874561.html?page=1&c=y

[LakeEffectKing]

Extremely sorry to hear this news. 

[icebreaker5221]

Just terrible news.  To echo some of the other words here in this thread, it's especially tragic that they were in it for the science and not for the fame.

 

Is there any clear understanding yet of what went wrong?  I've heard a few different things: 1) they may have have positioned very close to a tornado that suddenly changed direction, 2) they were chasing one tornado, but a new one developed too close to them and too quickly to get out of the way, or 3) the tornado was rain wrapped, and by the time they had a good view of it, it was already too late (exacerbated by a lack of road options).  Of course it could have been a combination of the above factors, and it does not make much difference in terms of the tragic result.  But perhaps if we can identify what caught them off guard and then associate some property of the cell they were on with the cause of death, perhaps we could identify supercells that are better off not chased save lives in the future. 

[Uncle Bobby]

I guess I should post my chase report here.  I had already posted it elsewhere...

 

It's important to note that this is a copy/paste of an email I just sent to a friend. Also, you've all seen the pics and vids, so I'm not going to bother. Here is my tale:

I started out in Kingfisher, which is where the storm essentially initiated. When a north-south line (multiple cells) developed from I-40 to north of Kingfisher my only viable option was to go east all the way to Hwy 74, taking the shortcut through Cashion. I then took 74 south, which took me right into the metro area, on I-44, and I got on I-40 to get back west toward the storm. By this time, the line of storms had morphed into the single supercell with the tornado tracking down 40.


My plan as I reached the western outskirts of the OKC metro was to go to 92/Cemetery Rd (just S of Yukon) and then south from there, but when I exited there the storm was closer than I liked, so instead I got back on the freeway going east, and then got back off and headed south at Mustang Road.


At this point I felt comfortable. For one thing, I knew that the "main" core of the storm had already passed to the northeast of me. After driving a mile or so I stopped at a parking lot to take a leisurely look at the storm. At no time did I ever see any actual tornado, because as is often the case with these Oklahoma/Texas storms, the air was so thick with humidity, plus falling rain, that my view into the underside of the storm base was obscured. I stopped a couple times more as I slowly proceeded south.

I don't remember when I realized that the storm had made a 90-degree turn southward, but as soon as I did my stopping for gawking breaks ended.

Before getting to Mustang I got in the "slowly moving parking lot" for the first time. I still wasn't panicked, because I had a pretty safe distance between me and the storm approaching me from the north, plus I assumed that the traffic tie-up wouldn't last long. I thought I would be out of it for sure once I got south of Mustang. Wrong.

About 30-40 minutes(?) later I still hadn't made it to the Canadian River, and that was a huge problem, because even though my mapping/GPS is perfect for such a scenario, allowing me to navigate the gravel and dirt roads nobody else would be using, there WERE no other roads that could get me across the river. As I sat there my radar indicated a hook was passing right over my head. The wind blew ferociously and rain whipped horizontally, and I thought I might die right then and there. All my windows fogged up inside the car as the pressure suddenly dropped. I saw curtains of rain wrapping around me about a quarter mile ahead. People in other cars were panicking. They were driving south in the northbound lanes, squealing tires, driving on the grass, you name it. And then, all the drama stopped and a gentle rain resumed. Phew. There were a couple other times when hooks went right over me, but with less drama.

Eventually I got past the river and took the first side street indicated on my mapping software, and for the next hour I pounded southward, then westward, down one gravel road after another until I felt I could call it a day.

I ended up near Apache, which is where I spent another hour or so looking for a good spot to park and settle in for the night. I found one north of Apache where there was a turnoff in the trees for an old abandoned oil well.

This was my fourth night of sleeping in my car this year. I've found it to be pretty convenient, actually, because when I wake up at dawn I'm ready to go. Just turn the key and I'm off. Not to mention the cost savings, and I've found that I sleep just fine behind the wheel. (No jokes, please!)

 

*End of copy/paste*  Also, here is a pic of the traffic jam of people trying to get across the Canadian.  Sorry for the blurriness, but it's a vidcap:

 

[Jim Marusak]

I just read the blog entry of one of the mets from The Weather Network up in Canada who was part of the chase, Dayna Vettese. she was also complaining about the traffic problems down there.

 

as for how i know of her, i was directed to her blog about a year or so ago by a former co-worker and still friend over there at TWN/Pelmorex.

 

http://www.severeweatherdiaries.com/stormchase2013/2013/6/1/may-31-chase-day-16-dangerous-storm-dangerous-driving.html/

[Srain]

NOAA statement on deaths of storm researchers Tim Samaras, Paul Samaras and Carl Young Date Posted: June 3, 2013

We are terribly saddened by this news. Samaras was a respected tornado researcher and friend of NOAA who brought to the field a unique portfolio of expertise in engineering, science, writing and videography. His work was documented through an extensive list of formal publications and conference papers. 

We extend our sympathies to the family of Tim and Paul, and to the family of Carl Young.  We also extend our sympathies to all victims of the May 31st tornado and the other horrific tornadoes that have recently devastated central Oklahoma and other parts of the country.

As far as we know, these are the first documented storm intercept fatalities in a tornado.

Scientific storm intercept programs, though they occur with some known measure of risk, provide valuable research information that is difficult to acquire in other ways. 

We know storm chasing is also done by local government and media personnel who provide valuable warning information, and by amateur storm chasers who wish to see and photograph storms.  We encourage all who chase to do so as safely and as responsibly as possible in order to avoid danger for themselves and all those threatened by tornadoes.

Any questions or comments should be directed to:

Keli Pirtle, NOAA Communications

Norman, OK

 

 

[icebreaker5221]

Just terrible news.  To echo some of the other words here in this thread, it's especially tragic that they were in it for the science and not for the fame.

 

Is there any clear understanding yet of what went wrong?  I've heard a few different things: 1) they may have have positioned very close to a tornado that suddenly changed direction, 2) they were chasing one tornado, but a new one developed too close to them and too quickly to get out of the way, or 3) the tornado was rain wrapped, and by the time they had a good view of it, it was already too late (exacerbated by a lack of road options).  Of course it could have been a combination of the above factors, and it does not make much difference in terms of the tragic result.  But perhaps if we can identify what caught them off guard and then associate some property of the cell they were on with the cause of death, perhaps we could identify supercells that are better off not chased save lives in the future. 

 

It appears that, to answer my question, both (1) and (2) were factors that caught them off guard.  Rain may have obscured the tornado somewhat from some vantage points, but was probably not a main contributing factor in the danger to chasers. 

 

Another recent development, that a subvortex had a forward speed of 150 mph, would also catch many a seasoned chaser off guard.  It's amazing we didn't hear about more amateur deaths given how many got way too close to this thing. 

[Srain]

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NORMAN OK
1206 PM CDT TUE JUN 4 2013

...UPDATE ON MAY 31 EL RENO TORNADO...

METEOROLOGISTS WITH THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE AND RESEARCHERS FROM
THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE INFORMATION
RELATED TO THE MAY 31 EL RENO TORNADO.

WITH THIS INVESTIGATION... THE TORNADO HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO AN EF5
TORNADO BASED ON VELOCITY DATA FROM THE RESEARCH MOBILE RADAR DATA
FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA RAXPOL RADAR. IN ADDITION... THE
WIDTH OF TORNADO WAS MEASURED BY THE MOBILE RADAR DATA TO BE 2.6
MILES AFTER THE TORNADO PASSED EAST OF US HIGHWAY 81 SOUTH OF EL
RENO. THIS WIDTH IS THE WIDTH OF THE TORNADO ITSELF AND DOES NOT
INCLUDE THE DAMAGING STRAIGHT-LINE WINDS NEAR THE TORNADO AS
DETERMINED BY THE HIGH-RESOLUTION MOBILE RADAR DATA. THE 2.6 MILE
TORNADO PATH WIDTH IS BELIEVED TO BE THE WIDEST TORNADO ON RECORD
IN THE UNITED STATES.

.EL RENO TORNADO 

RATING:                  EF5
PATH LENGTH /STATUTE/:   16.2 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/:    2.6 MILES
FATALITIES:              N/A
INJURIES:                N/A

START DATE:              MAY 31 2013
START TIME:              6:03 PM CDT
START LOCATION:          8.3 WSW OF EL RENO /CANADIAN COUNTY /OK
                           NEAR COURTNEY ROAD ABOUT 1 MILE NORTH
                           OF REUTER ROAD
START LAT/LON:           35.495 / -98.095

END DATE:                MAY 31 2013
END TIME:                6:43 PM CDT
END LOCATION:            6.2 ESE OF EL RENO /CANADIAN COUNTY /OK
                           NEAR INTERSTATE 40 AND BANNER ROAD
END LAT/LON:             35.502 / -97.848

$$

SMITH/GARFIELD/SPEHEGER/AUSTIN

[Jim Marusak]

with a wind speed of 295 mph, that's just incredible natural wind speeds. that's like the speed of a top-fuel dragster at 900-1000 ft down the strip, faster then a veryon, as fast as a normally cruising a-10, or 1/2 to 2/3 normal cruising speed of a passenger jet. and at ~150mph or so, if you stuck your full arm outside a car window at that speed, that arm might be ripped off. even if they felt only 2/3 of the top speed from that beast they had no chance.

[Boogieman]

 

“He was a master at what he did and understood the risks better than anyone. That is what has all of us stumped. That is the big question. What did they see or think that threw them off and got them in harm’s way?”

I wasn't there, but based on the images, reports and video I've seen thus far, my answer to this is probably nothing at all.

 

I think that the main circulation spun off a number of satellite circulations in a most violent way. I think the main circulation was so intense that it's inflow spun up their own satellite tornados. There was mention of at least one anticyclonic tornado in the mesocyclone. I believe that when the width expanded to 2.6 miles, these satellites really went crazy, 150+ MPH forward motion, dropping and popping like yoyos. My honest thought is that one of these 150MPH+ beasts dropped right down from nowhere on top of them before they even got a chance to react. Just BOOM, right on top of them. Right here, right now. No time to escape. I think they were sure they were far enough in the clear from the MAIN tornado but the others just dropped on them.

 

If that's not the case, then they saw it coming but traffic gridlock prevented them from escaping. That's a way worse scenario, IMO. The fact that most were seatbelted really makes me think they were trying to get away.

 

What's really scary to think about is what likely would have transpired had this circulation not dissipated when it did. Looking at the prelim path, it very well could have followed the highway around the bend and almost into downtown. I'm probably not stretching it much to estimate a couple of hundred fatalities had that scenario unfolded, the majority of them in vehicles. It was so close to happening it's just mind-numbing.

 

There's so many things atypical about this tornado.

[nwohweather]

So would people put this tornado ahead of the one to hit Phil Campbell and Hackleburg 2 years ago?

[NJwinter23]

The last week (between the TIV stuff and El Reno) have changed my opinion regarding chasing...you might be smart about how you do it (and a number of others are as well) but unless you're in it for science or research as a predominate reason, I'm not sure chasing has merit for the weenie or TWC types of the world.  Not because of you or those who are safe chasers but because there are increasing numbers of idiots who are putting themselves in a position to get harmed (Sullivan, Bettes, etc) all because they want a great video and want to get some fame for being "extreme."

 

As much as you may not want to admit it, there's a greater tendency now to "one up" the last extreme shot with something better.  That's not a positive trend with chasing any storm.

 

I don't think we should legislate or police chasing through laws but I do think that the idiots out there should get called out and quickly de-emphasized as "legit"...unfortunately, some of them are who gather large followings in social media.  Like I said, I doubt anything really changes but the weather community does need to reflect on this a bit.

 

The more I think about this, the more I do not agree with these assertions, or think they are very fair. I will admit these guys (Bettes) chased this storm very recklessly and I've been criticizing them as well. But as far as their motives in why they are chasing, I don't think it is fair to assume the primary reason for chasing is tv ratings and fame for a guy like Bettes. TWC is not forcing him to chase tornadoes for television, I'd say it is more likely he's doing it because he is fascinated like the rest of us by the weather, and has been given a rare opportunity to do it while also making a living. I refuse to hate on that, I'm sorry. Do we hate on Dr. Greg Forbes for going out with Bettes and chasing on certain days, or assume his motives the same way?? 

 

TV ratings is obviously an important part of his job while out there, but let's also remember that a lot of people watch TWC and hear warnings through them. While he is reporting out there and showing a tornado on the ground, yes it's good tv, but there is a good chance someone in harms way is seeing this and taking shelter too. 

 

Everything else youve said and has been shared here with regards to carelessness and amateurs chasing, I agree with

[yoda]

Interesting

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2013/06/05/the-rare-anticyclonic-tornado-in-el-reno-okla/

http://www.livescience.com/37192-rare-anticyclonic-tornado.html

[tornadotony]

So would people put this tornado ahead of the one to hit Phil Campbell and Hackleburg 2 years ago?

Did this tornado last over an hour and a half, travel 100 miles, do EF4+ damage for 45 continuous miles (only to reach EF4+ two more times along its path), do EF3+ damage for about 85 continuous miles, do EF5 damage in 5 separate communities across 4 separate counties, kill 72 people, or do $1.7 billion in damage?

[brettjrob]

While this IS a terrible tragedy, unfortunately the Twistex guys along with Timmer, Casey and others have made storm chasing look cool and relatively safe. Because of them it has probably caused untold numbers to be killed, thinking there's nothing to it. I'm sure I'm not the only kid to crash his bicycle and end up bleeding with bumps and bruises after watching Evil Knievel jumping cars. I know it has been stressed many, many times to leave the storm chasing to the professionals but you know us human beings. If this tragedy has an upside, because of their celebrity, maybe more people will realize getting upclose and personal to a tornado is like sticking your head in the mouth of a shark. Not a good idea. Rest in peace gentlemen.

 

All three of the groups you mentioned have considerable experience chasing and at least one meteorologist on-board, and two of them have armored vehicles. The choice of anyone who has neither of those to chase, particularly in the same style, is entirely their own. The blame for any negative outcome is also their own. Darwin at work.

 

It is particularly outrageous to blame TWISTEX, since they were never about promoting their brand or maximizing their public exposure. Are you prepared to blame CSWR for appearing on the first season of Storm Chasers? How about NSSL and OU research groups who chase with mobile radars and have granted interviews to the news media and documentary filmmakers?

[Thunder Road]

While this IS a terrible tragedy, unfortunately the Twistex guys along with Timmer, Casey and others have made storm chasing look cool and relatively safe. Because of them it has probably caused untold numbers to be killed, thinking there's nothing to it. I'm sure I'm not the only kid to crash his bicycle and end up bleeding with bumps and bruises after watching Evil Knievel jumping cars. I know it has been stressed many, many times to leave the storm chasing to the professionals but you know us human beings. If this tragedy has an upside, because of their celebrity, maybe more people will realize getting upclose and personal to a tornado is like sticking your head in the mouth of a shark. Not a good idea. Rest in peace gentlemen.

 

 

It is particularly outrageous to blame TWISTEX

[nwohweather]

Did this tornado last over an hour and a half, travel 100 miles, do EF4+ damage for 45 continuous miles (only to reach EF4+ two more times along its path), do EF3+ damage for about 85 continuous miles, do EF5 damage in 5 separate communities across 4 separate counties, kill 72 people, or do $1.7 billion in damage?

Nope I was just wondering what anyone thought. The 295 mph wind and 2.5 width was pretty impressive and I didn't know how people would rank it. Personally that twister is #1 in my lifetime, the damage is unreal that the Phil Campbell storm did

[Ellinwood]

The Samaras' Memorial Service: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/memorial-service-thursday-for-stormchasers-tim-samaras-paul-samaras-killed-in-el-reno-tornado

[andyhb]

The Samaras' Memorial Service: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/memorial-service-thursday-for-stormchasers-tim-samaras-paul-samaras-killed-in-el-reno-tornado

 

Thanks for the link, been looking for it.

[Sickman]

Please keep comments about stormchasing ethics in the other thread in the Central/Western States forum.  Thanks.

[kperk014]

I'm  deleting my posts. Life is much too short for misunderstandings.

[Cypress]

Twistex Memorial Fund met their goal in less than 3 hours, that's awesome  http://www.gofundme.com/8z1zlo

 

 

"Canadian County Deputy, Doug Gerten, who is acquainted with Tim's widow, wants to pay his respects to the three men in a very special way.

"We're wanting to just make a more permanent fixture out here for them," Gerten said.

Gerten is ready to donate granite stones from a state building. He purchased the stones in a surplus auction. The rest of the permanent memorial may cost a few thousand dollars.

"The financial part of it is having it all engraved and getting the artwork done and the permanent placement of it," Gerten said.

People from throughout the storm chasing world have already been to the El Reno area to leave mementos. With financial help, those storm chasers and deputies hope a permanent memorial will be realized. Gerten said he hopes to start working on the project as soon as possible.

News9 OK story: aired 5/6/14"