nwburbschaser Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 How can you regulate it though? If people get in their cars and chase how is law enforcement going to enforce any laws or regulations? Most likely the law enforcement people are going to be dealing with the incoming tornado and any aftermath of it hitting. Can't see how its plausible to enforce something like that. They will block every road possible. That is already happening and its just going to get worse. There is no way to regulate it with regard to licensing or something along those lines, but keeping anyone and everyone out of a certain area will be the way it is done. I'm not sure that its even possible, but the more resources that are needed to keep insane chasers away from tornadoes will hamper the first response and give the community an even worse reputation so pick your poison at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier77 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 How can you regulate it though? If people get in their cars and chase how is law enforcement going to enforce any laws or regulations? Most likely the law enforcement people are going to be dealing with the incoming tornado and any aftermath of it hitting. Can't see how its plausible to enforce something like that. Agreed. But that doesn't stop various state legislatures from passing laws banning or limiting chasing. One possibility is that it could be some kind of penalty enhancement. For instance, if you were pulled over and ticketed for speeding and the prosecutor could prove that you were storm chasing, an extra 2 points and enhanced fine would be added to the penalty. Or perhaps, think about the incident a couple of years when a bunch of chasers in SD drove into a farmer's field while running from a tornado, got trapped, and ruined part of the field. Maybe that would be lifted from simple criminal trespass to a higher degree misdemeanor. Another idea is that law enforcement could use it to detain storm chasers on busy roads around storms until the storm is well past the county. However, as you noted, it could only be very selectively enforced in certain situations. All of these are potential negative consequences of storm chasing regulation. It's a bad idea to let any legislature get it into their heads that something needs to be regulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Agreed. But that doesn't stop various state legislatures from passing laws banning or limiting chasing. One possibility is that it could be some kind of penalty enhancement. For instance, if you were pulled over and ticketed for speeding and the prosecutor could prove that you were storm chasing, an extra 2 points and enhanced fine would be added to the penalty. Or perhaps, think about the incident a couple of years when a bunch of chasers in SD drove into a farmer's field while running from a tornado, got trapped, and ruined part of the field. Maybe that would be lifted from simple criminal trespass to a higher degree misdemeanor. Another idea is that law enforcement could use it to detain storm chasers on busy roads around storms until the storm is well past the county. However, as you noted, it could only be very selectively enforced in certain situations. All of these are potential negative consequences of storm chasing regulation. It's a bad idea to let any legislature get it into their heads that something needs to be regulated. I think the heavier penalties for proving they are chasing is the best and easiest way to approach it. Again to shut down all the roads and try to detain 500 chasers would likely require too much law enforcement attention in a time where they have more important things to do. Sadly it might take a tragedy to show chaser the money shot isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnWeatherman Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Storm chasing regulation? Why not regulate french fry consumption, it's potentially deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I don't think you could effectively regulate this because it's nearly impossible to discern "yahoo" chasers from Jan and Joe Sixpack trying to get to another location to go underground. Well, Joe and Jane probably aren't going to be holding a camera out the window, but, then again, they just might. I just don't see a way to regulate it. I suppose you could make sure all NOAA/NWS and Skywarn vehicles are plainly marked so they're instantly recognizable to LEO's We know the amateur papparazi really have no business being around a tornado scene, but where do you draw a line with the media? Do we really need a chase vehicle and helicopter footage of the tornado for every local station? Would TWC, etc., chasers be considered "essential" enough to have access close to the storm, just because they're "pro" chasers? Or should law enforcement limit how close they get? And I have to wonder about a met who would tell the audience to drive away from the city to escape the tornado. You would hope that somewhere in his mind the idea that there were THOUSANDS OF VIEWERS at that moment who were now running for their cars might just cause a traffic crisis. It's nothing but sheer luck that hundreds or thousands weren't injured or killed on the highways. It was this close to happening!! I think a lot of heads are going to roll in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Storm chasing regulation? Why not regulate french fry consumption, it's potentially deadly. It is regulation so chasers don't kill someone else by acting like a fool out there, running cars off the road and the such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 It is regulation so chasers don't kill someone else by acting like a fool out there, running cars off the road and the such. This, exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeEater Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Mike Bettes's statement on Twitter and Facebook, kudos to him for admitting he made a mistake, and will learn from it, unlike others. Mike Bettes 32 minutes ago · Thank you all for the kind thoughts. Everyone is okay. Hopefully our mishap will teach us all to respect the weather & be responsible & safe at all costs. I thought I was doing the right thing, but obviously I wasn't. Lesson learned the hard way. Someone was watching over us. Very blessed to be headed home tomorrow to see my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Mike Bettes's statement on Twitter and Facebook, kudos to him for admitting he made a mistake, and will learn from it, unlike others. Mike Bettes 32 minutes ago · Thank you all for the kind thoughts. Everyone is okay. Hopefully our mishap will teach us all to respect the weather & be responsible & safe at all costs. I thought I was doing the right thing, but obviously I wasn't. Lesson learned the hard way. Someone was watching over us. Very blessed to be headed home tomorrow to see my family. Owning up to the fact it was a mistake is a good step, honestly though I hope this is a sign for others to not get that close. I mean it is a wedge tornado, if you are 3-5 miles away you will still get amazing footage, just use the zoom lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Storm chasing regulation? Why not regulate french fry consumption, it's potentially deadly. C'mon, people are not only putting themselves in danger, but everyone else out there on the road when they do some of the things that happened out there today. French fry consumption (can't believe I actually am taking this literally) is only harmful to the person eating the french fries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeEater Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Brandon also issued a statement on FB about today. This what I had hoped the chasers affected today would do, and hopefully some good will come of this. Kudos to him and his team also. Brandon Sullivan 9 minutes ago · I messed up.. As someone who has worked years to pave a road to a career in the NWS, I messed up.. Myself, The Titans... None of are inexperienced or reckless.. Never have been, never will be.. But that said, I messed up today. I usually call the shots and I kept us there too long.. Although I am not officially associated with NWS or any affiliates, I must apologize to my colleagues in the offices and agencies.. I've worked hard to uphold the core mission of protecting life and property, but I let adrenaline and desire for the shot get to me today. A sincere apology to all those professionals who dedicate their daily lives to keeping people safe. I will keep chasing, but with a new and humbled approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackH Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'm glad Brandon at least made that statement. I think he had to. I always really like Brandon in the beginning and I think he's a good guy at his heart. I think fame has gotten to him a bit and its definitely changed him. The thing that I was most disappointed about wasn't the fact that they got in the situation. It was the fact that Brandon himself was one of the most outspoken people in regards to the SWAT chasing team from Indiana last 4/14 when they accidentally got stuck in Wichita and filmed the outer edge of the EF3. They had lost data and then on top of that, accidentally got off on the wrong exit. Then they sold the footage and the community when nuts on them... spearheaded by Brandon Sullivan. Well, Brandon is now milking this with the media way more than they ever did. He publicly called them stupid and inexperienced chasers for what they did. These guys had two degreed meteorologists on their team and had been chasing just as long as him. So, irony hit a bit yesterday and Brandon realized he wasn't immune to being in a bad situation. Also, it was a bit ridiculous in the video how obviously he was playing for the video with his over the top screaming, etc... I hope he learns a lot from this. Basically because of his actions, SWAT had to disband because they had no more sponsor support. I don't agree with getting that close for anyone... but I don't like the double standards that have been thrown around by certain chasers. It's very unprofessional. That being said, I hope many lessons are learned from every side, and I am VERY glad everyone is okay and safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 The media is heavily to blame. They reward stupidity. Granted a lot of people chase too close but clearly today was not the day and people knew that ahead of time. But video has made a lot of schmuck losers famous so what can you do. Mike B and crew for TWC did the same thing but got caught and almost killed. Now TWC is showing the video of his crash and explaining why its not his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Mike Bettes's statement on Twitter and Facebook, kudos to him for admitting he made a mistake, and will learn from it, unlike others. Mike Bettes 32 minutes ago · Thank you all for the kind thoughts. Everyone is okay. Hopefully our mishap will teach us all to respect the weather & be responsible & safe at all costs. I thought I was doing the right thing, but obviously I wasn't. Lesson learned the hard way. Someone was watching over us. Very blessed to be headed home tomorrow to see my family. Good for him for the statement though I'm not sure how anyone could think racing right into the tornado was the "right thing" to do... but that's just me. The video certainly gave that impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm8 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Just saw those guys being interviewed and really glorified again on TWC... Pretty frustrating Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 It was only a matter of time. I don't care what mea culpas they come up with. It will only make others even more brazen that are far less experienced. Shame that a few will ruin it for many who do it the right way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaoPos Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlwx Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Most reputable chasers knew what kind of tornadoes/severe weather the atmosphere yesterday was capable of and should have known better than to get within a couple miles of an ever growing wedge. The degradation of these chasers is well deserved after they almost got themselves killed and then to further it, they are not considering it a big deal. I absolutely agree with this. I also think Morgan, KFOR, Bettes, and TWC should be shamed as well. The weather community should be embarrassed for the antics of a few and the whoring of ratings by TWC by praising the stunt that Bettes' crew pulled yesterday. One of these days, some idiot is going to die. The hype in our society is astonishing and it's embarrassing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganLion Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Mike B and crew for TWC did the same thing but got caught and almost killed. Now TWC is showing the video of his crash and explaining why its not his fault. I'm watching TWC this AM out of curiosity. Must say their coverage this AM (of what happened to them last night) is pretty nauseating. Spending 75% of their time repeatedly showing the video and, as you said, explaining why it wasn't their fault. Someone must have told Stephanie Abrams to play the "but what Mike does is making people aware and saving people's lives!" card too, because she's been saying that every 10 minutes. She's probably a last-minute replacement to even be on TV this AM, she's not part of the usual Saturday AM crew. Funny thing is: there's a (admittedly not-high end) severe threat for a rather large part of the US today. They're spending rather little time making people aware of TODAY's threat --- you know, the whole "making people aware and saving people's lives" card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needbiggerboat Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Somewhat ironic, in that ethics and morality are typically verboten in here. I'd assert that the root of the behavior being discussed lies in the depersonalization that many enthusiasts have towards weather in general, and specifically extreme events ("wow look at that gorgeous tornado/hurricane/crippling blizzard/etc etc, so cool!!). Observing from the internet or TV removes one from the direct impact and consequences of "being in the way" of bad weather. Part of the issue is probably due to media coverage, maybe our video game culture (first person shooter, I'm dead but can hit the reset button!!), or perhaps a general inability to empathize and understand unless something impacts one directly. People are killed, injured and lose their property all the time due to extreme weather related events. Some are acting like yesterday was the first time. Some of those chasers seemed not to realize it "could happen to them" until it did. The difference is that they put themselves in the way of the event, in some cases deliberately too close. None of this should be interpreted as a critique of chasing or being a weather enthusiast or professional in the field. People are going to do what they want to do, subject to local regulations and such. And to the extent that chasing enhances understanding of tornado dynamics and helps warn the public, it will continue to serve a very valuable purpose. But, as others have said, it's a big problem when one person's behavior or decisions puts other lives at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disc Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 For those who haven't seen the video of Mike Bettes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOXpyFp1lkw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I want to see what kind of fallout, if any, there is from KFOR telling people to get in their cars and head south. If it can be shown that any of the 5 victims that died in automobiles headed out because of what they heard on KFOR, some major litigation is in their future. Other than people in mobile homes or weak structures, telling people to evacuate seems completely irresponsible to me. I thought we've long since determined that it's almost always safer to take shelter in an interior room of a sturdy structure. I guess I just feel strongly about this because I went through the Wichita Falls F4 tornado in '79. 25 of the 42 that died were in vehicles. Some ran from houses that were not hit by the tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser25973 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Perfect!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyg Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 For those who haven't seen the video of Mike Bettes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOXpyFp1lkw So they tried to dodge it...by driving towards it? Shoot, they probably would have been better just staying wherever they were originally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNCwx Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 One way to stop this storm chasing for profit would be for the legitimate research teams to start providing footage to the networks and TV Stations for free or next to free. And perhaps they could have Public Information Officers to liaise with the media and the public via social media and live streams. If you can devalue the sale of video footage and photographs of tornadoes, then that might stop some of the nonsense of people chasing to solely sell video. People like Reed Timmer and Brandon Sullivan is an example of the type of "storm chaser" that gives legitimate severe weather research teams a bad name. At this point, I would even support a type of federal licensing program, but I think it would be a bear to set up and monitor. Perhaps it could be like what amateur radio operators have to go through that would subject the license holders to severe fines if they violate the terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derecho! Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Other than people in mobile homes or weak structures, telling people to evacuate seems completely irresponsible to me. I thought we've long since determined that it's almost always safer to take shelter in an interior room of a sturdy structure. I guess I just feel strongly about this because I went through the Wichita Falls F4 tornado in '79. 25 of the 42 that died were in vehicles. Some ran from houses that were not hit by the tornado. The constantly repeated mythology that there are tornadoes that can only be survived underground is contributing to this, I think. If that were true, thousands would have died in Joplin, both Moore F5s, Greensburg, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Brandon is an arrogant turd. He probably made his statement because he knows he jeapordized his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckle66 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I shouldn't be surprised but I am. How someone can pimp their video and ham to the camera in good conscious. Would you want to be the chaser obstructing traffic for "the shot" while a mother and her child are sucked from their vehicle behind you? Brandon Sullivan is an immature kid may be the only explanation. He may be riding high right now but "30 seconds" remains in his 15 minutes of fame. Accumulating 100 tornadoes under your belt and having the most "insane" video does nothing for you. No one will remember you once they switch the channel to Dancing with the Stars. It is my hope that TWC takes the high road and uses the Tornado Hunt experience to discourage their own promotion of iWitness submissions. This I believe urges Joe citizen to want to take part in the spectacle. Judging from the way they are using that video that does not seem likely. As Stephanie Abrams explains that the crew are not a bunch of risk takers, just looking at the stenciled "Tornado Hunt" vehicle panicked kind of torpedoed that statement. After watching Jeff Piotrowski's video from yesterday, I do think it is entirely possible to chase responsibly while enjoying your passion and serving the public. Let's use this as a teaching moment and move away from this voyeuristic disaster culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 The constantly repeated mythology that there are tornadoes that can only be survived underground is contributing to this, I think. If that were true, thousands would have died in Joplin, both Moore F5s, Greensburg, etc. I agree. At most, that should be said of F5 damage. And people need to realize that F5 damage is both rare and usually confined to a small part of the damage path even in an F5 tornado. Also tornado strength isn't something you can safely judge on the ground during an event. Getting in a vehicle makes you much more vulnerable in a larger area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Marusak Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 One way to stop this storm chasing for profit would be for the legitimate research teams to start providing footage to the networks and TV Stations for free or next to free. And perhaps they could have Public Information Officers to liaise with the media and the public via social media and live streams. If you can devalue the sale of video footage and photographs of tornadoes, then that might stop some of the nonsense of people chasing to solely sell video. People like Reed Timmer and Brandon Sullivan is an example of the type of "storm chaser" that gives legitimate severe weather research teams a bad name. At this point, I would even support a type of federal licensing program, but I think it would be a bear to set up and monitor. Perhaps it could be like what amateur radio operators have to go through that would subject the license holders to severe fines if they violate the terms. i could see that type of federal licensing via the skywarn program with tiered licenses. here's my "off the top of my head" proposal, which fellow members of amwx can freely amend based on your experience, legal knowledge, and just plain opinion. but at least it's a starting point. consider it ----------------------------------------------------------------------- AMWX HR1 "The Skywarn/Storm Chaser Licensing Act": minimum would be a "skywarn spotter" class similar to the old fcc novice license, "skywarn-chaser" similar to the old FCC "general" for those who actually want to go into chasing which would be spotter plus giving them info on how to do it safely and passing that test. and those tests couldn't be taken the same day as the "skywarn spotter" class on top would be something like a "Skywarn-Chaser-leader" license like the fcc "extra" class in which you'd have to prove not only you know what you're doing as a chaser by holding the "Skywarn-Chaser" license sucessfully for X number of years without traffic incidents directly or indirectly related to chasing, but also have some type of met training and experience to show you would be responsible enough to lead a group safely. And if you're chasing without a license, then traffic violations that occur while chasing would have penalties like say triple the normal penalties of those who have the license. But if you have the license and are committing traffic or other violations while chasing, and that occurs say 2-3 times, the "chaser" or "chaser-leader" license could be revoked for say 5 years and demoted only to skywarn spotter. And if you're revoked two times, then a lifetime ban would be in place. ---------------------------------------------------------- feel free to amend as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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