Storm Chasing and Media Coverage Ethics

[Scott747]

Now, I say all of the aforementioned as someone who has chased, and will continue to chase hurricanes.

That said, I will never again rush into an area without the means, and the time alloted, to provide assistance to those afflicted in the aftermath. As Tulliox stated, I too feel it's the very least we can do. To me, it's the same general principle as someone going to a restaurant without the means to leave the waiter or waitress a tip. In other words, I believe we shouldn't chase if we could become a liability for others, and if we aren't able and willing to sacrifice some of our time in the immediate aftermath, providing assistance to those in need.

 

You make the previous *full of outrage post* and then come back trying to justify why it's ok for you to chase in the future.

 

Solid.

[Quixotic1]

Now, I say all of the aforementioned as someone who has chased, and will continue to chase hurricanes.

That said, I will never again rush into an area without the means, and the time alloted, to provide assistance to those afflicted in the aftermath. As Tulliox stated, I too feel it's the very least we can do. To me, it's the same general principle as someone going to a restaurant without the means to leave the waiter or waitress a tip. In other words, I believe we shouldn't chase if we could become a liability for others, and if we aren't able and willing to sacrifice some of our time in the immediate aftermath, providing assistance to those in need.

 

What amount of time is that?  Seems like in the Philippines, that would be the rest of our lives seeing as how their misery is perpetual. 

 

It's difficult to understand those (not necessarily you) so glib about chasing hurricanes primarily for thrills after they've seen the human toll first hand. 

 

It's not nearly as bad, but it reminds me of those nimrods who hope for a VEI 8 eruption so they can get more snow. 

[WEATHER53]

Josh has to have seen some gruesome stuff and some courageous stuff. Lot of decompression probably going on. That was some noble sh*t wading chest deep through water pushing old people on floating mattresses.

[LocoAko]

I think they are exactly that to be honest.

Yeah... feelings about this aside, that post didn't make much sense. Millions of people could feel the same way about something subjective -- not sure what that was even trying to imply....

[WNash]

Josh has to have seen some gruesome stuff and some courageous stuff. Lot of decompression probably going on. That was some noble sh*t wading chest deep through water pushing old people on floating mattresses.

 

It is, and my heart goes out to him. So hard. Josh,I know you're a tough SOB and I suspect you're a hard worker but please look after yourself.

[ncforecaster89]

You make the previous *full of outrage post* and then come back trying to justify why it's ok for you to chase in the future.

Solid.

Here's the difference. If I had chased this particular storm, or any other I may add, I would not expect anyone to provide me with any assistance. I would take full responsibility for my own life and personal well being. Moreover, I would still be there providing assistance to those in need for at least a full week, in the aftermath-just as I did following "Sandy."

Furthermore, I wouldn't be documenting my efforts to unselfishly help others, in the process. I would also not be doing multiple interviews in the media, thereby drawing unnecessary attention to myself, and profiting off the misery and suffering of others.

With the aforementioned in mind, there's nothing contradictory between the two posts I've made. To clarify, I've always made it abundantly clear that I too understand why a lot of the chasers do it, and I will continue to do it myself. On the other hand, I will never again chase a storm in a situation where I might become an unnecessary liability for others, and aren't prepared to accept full responsibility for my own personal well-being. The same is true for the other considerations I stated in the previous paragraph.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify any possible misconceptions and misunderstandings regarding the posts I made.

[ncforecaster89]

I should also add that my own personal views on this matter have evolved over time, mainly as a result of seeing, first-hand, the amount of physical, emotional, and financial hardship these fascinating phenomena inflict on others. It began when I was stranded in the aftermath, following hurricane Katrina, for more than three days. My experiences following Sandy were instrumental in further enhancing these views.

I share all the aforementioned in hopes that maybe, just maybe, others might be more conscious and sensitive to the plight of others, before and immediately after the chase, itself.

[F-5]

'Do they want me to die in this airport?' Chaos in Tacloban as 3,000 try to board two planes

 

Posted without opinion, per se, but I thought it was pertinent info that I did not see posted elsewhere in the thread.

[WNash]

'Do they want me to die in this airport?' Chaos in Tacloban as 3,000 try to board two planes

 

Posted without opinion, per se, but I thought it was pertinent info that I did not see posted elsewhere in the thread.

 

 

Well, this story is what, at least 60 hours after our chasers left Tacloban. And let's face it, one of them would have been going septic had he not gotten on that early, less full plane. They had to do what they thought was right, and who can blame them? There is scarcity NOW but there obviously wasn't THEN, which probably shows that Josh et al had a pretty damn good idea that all hell was about to break loose, and showed some good foresight in getting out.

[SlantStickers Anonymous]

This may all be true. But it's also true that:

• Talking about the "beauty" of death and destruction (I shouldn't need to link to this, but rating the "hawtness" of storms is an example) is aestheticization and talking about "storm porn" is literally sexualization of deadly storms, which is frankly morally repellent by most standards, especially in the wake of one such as Haiyan
• There is a lot of BS about a scientific agenda used to obscure the thrill-seeking inherent in chasing, yet no scientist who studies, say, tumors would talk of a tumor as being "hawt"-- layman-style chasing uses a language that is just alien to the "legitimate" purposes that chasers like to use as cover
• The issue of profiteering is an open one that has not been addressed with regard to Haiyan-- and that is one that, if examined by outsiders, could be very ugly for our community.

I do think that there are just a very small number of people who truly don't give a damn, but I also think that we have developed a discourse that we refuse to examine, a discourse that is full of rationalizations that don't hold up, and we would do well to practice SOME sort of self-reflection and honest debate, instead of characterizing any discussion of the presentation of the ramifications and appearances of chasing as out of bounds.

It's ridiculous that the discussion of this issue has been marginalized to the "Central/Western States" subforum, one of the least read wx subforums here (nothing personal, guys, just pointing out the numbers). Having a separate topic within the "General Forecasting and Discussion" subforum -- where it would have prominence alongside all of the hurricane "hawtness" posts-- would be a step in the right direction.

At least we have this thread, so those of us who find this sort of thing morally troubling can raise our objections to the community at large.

Uhh really feel like you took a poor choice of words and blew it up into something it wasn't, wasnt referring to dead people being cool at all, was only referring to recording and obs. Of such a powerful and rare system.

If it were up to me that storm wouldn't have hit anywhere where people live, but it isn't up to me and making it sound like thousands of people dying is what makes the storm awesome for me or others is just inaccurate. It's about the ever-present power of nature, not seeing people lose their homes and lives.

[Ed Lizard]

The footage from that hotel can only increase donations by people around the world.

[Hambone]

I've always had a problem with people 'wishing" that a Cat 5 storm would hit the US, that  an F 5 tornado would hit a major city etc.  I'm interested in weather like everyone here, but I don't ever wish a damaging storm to hit anywhere or anyone.  Following that thought, I also have a problem with "chasers".  If you are a professional meteorologist doing legitimate research, that's one thing.  A bunch of yahoos seeking the thrill of "being" there, is wrong.  These big storms have the potential to kill people, injure more and destroy homes/businesses etc.  Public safety personnel have a tough enough job as it is without a bunch of rubber necking thrill seekers jamming up the roads, slowing evacuations, getting injured themselves, and in general hindering aid and support.

 

How would you feel as a local resident whose family needs assistance and that assistance is delayed because of the actions of a chaser?   For every act of assistance by a chaser I guarantee there are far more problems caused.

 

Stay home. 

[bobbutts]

One thing that really sticks in my mind is the hundreds of dots representing chasers on the various post-mortems for the OKC event.  The popularity is vastly greater than I realized.  I am sure within that group you have everything from unrepentant yahoos to responsible scientists.  

[nwburbschaser]

I've always had a problem with people 'wishing" that a Cat 5 storm would hit the US, that  an F 5 tornado would hit a major city etc.  I'm interested in weather like everyone here, but I don't ever wish a damaging storm to hit anywhere or anyone.  Following that thought, I also have a problem with "chasers".  If you are a professional meteorologist doing legitimate research, that's one thing.  A bunch of yahoos seeking the thrill of "being" there, is wrong.  These big storms have the potential to kill people, injure more and destroy homes/businesses etc.  Public safety personnel have a tough enough job as it is without a bunch of rubber necking thrill seekers jamming up the roads, slowing evacuations, getting injured themselves, and in general hindering aid and support.

 

How would you feel as a local resident whose family needs assistance and that assistance is delayed because of the actions of a chaser?   For every act of assistance by a chaser I guarantee there are far more problems caused.

 

Stay home. 

 

That just isn't true. 

[HurricaneJosh]

Lolz, this boring topic.

 

Not gonna stop chasing.  Don't give a crap how anyone feels about it.  The end.

 

P.S.  I continue to get thank-you notes from Filipinos, for documenting Yolanda and for helping bring others to safety-- some from family members of people we dragged with our own hands out of the storm surge.

[HurricaneJosh]

P.S.  At the height of the storm-- as storm surge swept into the lobby of our hotel-- Mark and I carried an elderly dude in a wheelchair up a long, winding staircase to the second floor.  (His nurse and and wife just didn't have the physical strength to do it, obviously.)  Well, that dude turned out to be the ex-Mayor of Tacloban City!  I've gotten a bunch of incredibly kind notes from his grandchildren, etc. I think they would see this thread as stupid.

[ncforecaster89]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion on this somewhat controversial topic.

That said, I think it's only fair to state that while there remains a lot of subjectivity involved in trying to ascertain the specific intensity of Typhoon Hiayan at landfall in the Philippines, that the same doesn't apply to whether or not the chasers actually saved lives during the event. To be specific, the storm surge didn't get high enough in the hotel to take the lives of those therein. With that in mind, an accurate statement would be that they put their own lives at risk to help those that might've needed assistance in their time of need. When the chasers offered their assistance, no one knew if the flood waters were going to overwhelm those in such danger. As such, I too commend them for their efforts. But, it's not an accurate statement to say that their efforts did in fact save lives-they didn't, for the reasons stated above. Regardless of these facts, it shouldn't take anything away from the assistance they offered. I must admit that I do think a little humility would be appropriate for administering such assistance. Just saying.

As I've stated repeatedly, I struggle with the conundrum of my desire to document these fascinating storms and the knowledge of the immense devastation and hardship that they too often leave in their wake.

All that being said, I can appreciate the views and opinions expressed by both sides of this controversial issue. The only major issue I personally have is those chasers who choose to profit off the aforementioned hardship these cataclysmic storms inflict upon its victims. I have had many opportunities to do the same, but have chosen not to do so. Just my own two cents on the matter.

[BxEngine]

P.S. At the height of the storm-- as storm surge swept into the lobby of our hotel-- Mark and I carried an elderly dude in a wheelchair up a long, winding staircase to the second floor. (His nurse and and wife just didn't have the physical strength to do it, obviously.) Well, that dude turned out to be the ex-Mayor of Tacloban City! I've gotten a bunch of incredibly kind notes from his grandchildren, etc. I think they would see this thread as stupid.

Dude.

You cant use P.S. twice.

[Srain]

LOL...not this crap again.

[HurricaneJosh]

Lolz.

 

I am incredibly grateful that I chased Yolanda.  To be able to document a truly historic event (one of the strongest cyclone landfalls in recorded history) and help people in need was double-awesome.  And I feel a sort of lasting connection to the Filipinos-- we've really bonded with the people there. Mark, James, and I will be returning to Tacloban City in February.

 

The sideline critics are flies in my ears.

[HurricaneJosh]

All that being said, I can appreciate the views and opinions expressed by both sides of this controversial issue. The only major issue I personally have is those chasers who choose to profit off the aforementioned hardship these cataclysmic storms inflict upon its victims. I have had many opportunities to do the same, but have chosen not to do so. Just my own two cents on the matter.

 

Do you have hurricane footage?  I've never seen any from you.  If you do, awesome.

[HurricaneJosh]

 I must admit that I do think a little humility would be appropriate for administering such assistance. Just saying.

 

Tony, this is stupid.  If someone's going to make a thread lambasting chasers, of course the subjects of these criticisms are going to respond by pointing out the good that they did-- to answer the attacks.  It's not a lack of humility-- it's called responding.

 

It's fascinating to me that the harshest critics of active chasers are retired/inactive chasers.  The retired/inactive ones suddenly have all the answers about how the dudes out in the field should be doing it-- what we should and shouldn't chase, where we should go, how we should conduct ourselves, how we should talk about it afterward, and so on.

 

Hopefully one day you can set an example in the field for us-- and be the perfect li'l chaser for us all to treasure.  

[ncforecaster89]

Do you have hurricane footage? I've never seen any from you. If you do, awesome.

why the games, Josh? You know fully well I have tons of footage. Specifically, you know I captured footage of Wilma in Everglades City with you. You know, the one where I invited you to travel with me after the disappointing first half of the storm in south Naples. No need to be such an @$$.

[HurricaneJosh]

why the games, Josh? You know fully well I have tons of footage. Specifically, you know I captured footage of Wilma in Everglades City with you. You know, the one where I invited you to travel with me after the disappointing first half of the storm in south Naples. No need to be such an @$$.

 

Whoa, Tony.  This whole conversation is getting really weird. Not gonna participate in it, so have an awesome night.

 

But if you're going to present yourself as an example for us all to follow, expect questions.  You talk about getting offers to profit off hurricanes and turning them down.  You've never posted any of your footage online, so of course I'm going to wonder how the folks who were offering you money knew they wanted your footage.  That's all.  Just a simple question.

 

Anyhoo, have a good night.

[ncforecaster89]

Tony, this is stupid. If someone's going to make a thread lambasting chasers, of course the subjects of these criticisms are going to respond by pointing out the good that they did-- to answer the attacks. It's not a lack of humility-- it's called responding.

It's fascinating to me that the harshest critics of active chasers are retired/inactive chasers. The retired/inactive ones suddenly have all the answers about how the dudes out in the field should be doing it-- what we should and shouldn't chase, where we should go, how we should conduct ourselves, how we should talk about it afterward, and so on.

Hopefully one day you can set an example in the field for us-- and be the perfect li'l chaser for us all to treasure.

Nice attempt to mitigate the sincere beliefs I shared concerning such matters. You can try to marginilize my own personal opinions as much as you wish, but it would be nice if you could stick to facts.

Just because I choose not to intercept TCs outside of the US, it most certainly doesn't categorize me as being a supposedly inactive "chaser." If there had been a prospective hurricane landfall on US shores, during this specific season, I'd most certainly have been there to document it. The last storm I intercepted was Sandy just last year. So, your suggestion that I am somehow an "inactive" chaser doesn't have any merit, whatsoever.

Contrary to what you may believe, I have currently intercepted just as many full- fledged Hurricane intensity TCs as yourself. That said, I personally have no misguided desire to try to compete with you, or any other chaser, to somehow try to elevate myself or my own credentials in this particular area of my own life. It's just simply not that important to me.

Even if I didn't actually have all of the aforementioned first-hand experience with these fascinating and destructive storms, it would by no means minimize the validity of my own personal opinions on this particular subject-regardless of what you may choose to believe yourself.

It is this type of unwarrented arrogance you are choosing to exhibit that I feel is completely unnecessary, and makes you look like a "little" chaser, yourself-despite your good fortune in capturing excellent footage from Hiayan. Case in point, You choose to be so petty that you ignore my sincere expressions of appreciation for the video you captured, and get your panties all caught up in a wad over my own personal views that I feel it's inappropriate to be profiting from such footage when thousands of others are still laying dead in the streets. That's my own personal opinion on the subject, and no future attempts to mitigate my views or to marginilize me, will change them.

[ncforecaster89]

Whoa, Tony. This whole conversation is getting really weird. Not gonna participate in it, so have an awesome night.

But if you're going to present yourself as an example for us all to follow, expect questions. You talk about getting offers to profit off hurricanes and turning them down. You've never posted any of your footage online, so of course I'm going to wonder how the folks who were offering you money knew they wanted your footage. That's all. Just a simple question.

Anyhoo, have a good night.

I have no issues with legitimate questions. However, I rightfully take exception with sarcastic and disingenuous posts suggesting I may not have any hurricane footage, when you know full well I do.

Just for the record, I'm not so arrogant as to tell you, or anyone else, how they should chase. That said, I do reserve the right to share my genuine and most heartfelt opinions regarding such topics as the one being discussed in this thread.

Let me be clear, so there's no misunderstanding. You did an excellent job capturing some truly awesome TC footage during Typhoon Hiayan. As I stated in your chase thread, I personally consider it to be some of the best TC footage captured on film. I also have consistently commended your efforts, and those of others, who chose to risk their own lives to help others. That said, these facts don't preclude me from sharing the other personal opinions I have on this particular subject matter. If you, or anyone else, chooses to believe I might be jealous, feel any personal animosity towards you, or just simply lack experience in the field, they would be wholly incorrect on all accounts.

That aside, I have no desire to get into any unnecessary confrontation with you on this subject, and hope you too have a wonderful rest of the night!

[HurricaneJosh]

Nice attempt to mitigate the sincere beliefs I shared concerning such matters. You can try to marginilize my own personal opinions as much as you wish, but it would be nice if you could stick to facts.

Just because I choose not to intercept TCs outside of the US, it most certainly doesn't categorize me as being a supposedly inactive "chaser." If there had been a prospective hurricane landfall on US shores, during this specific season, I'd most certainly have been there to document it. The last storm I intercepted was Sandy just last year. So, your suggestion that I am somehow an "inactive" chaser doesn't have any merit, whatsoever.

Contrary to what you may believe, I have currently intercepted just as many full- fledged Hurricane intensity TCs as yourself. That said, I personally have no misguided desire to try to compete with you, or any other chaser, to somehow try to elevate myself or my own credentials in this particular area of my own life. It's just simply not that important to me.

Even if I didn't actually have all of the aforementioned first-hand experience with these fascinating and destructive storms, it would by no means minimize the validity of my own personal opinions on this particular subject-regardless of what you may choose to believe yourself.

It is this type of unwarrented arrogance you are choosing to exhibit that I feel is completely unnecessary, and makes you look like a "little" chaser, yourself-despite your good fortune in capturing excellent footage from Hiayan. Case in point, You choose to be so petty that you ignore my sincere expressions of appreciation for the video you captured, and get your panties all caught up in a wad over my own personal views that I feel it's inappropriate to be profiting from such footage when thousands of others are still laying dead in the streets. That's my own personal opinion on the subject, and no future attempts to mitigate my views or to marginilize me, will change them.

 

The difference between you and me, Tony, is this:  you present yourself as an example for us to follow, I don't.

 

I just get out there and chase.  I go for it.  I do my best. I don't offer any explanation or justification for chasing-- I do it because I want to, and that's that.  If you're cool with that, great. If not, OK.

 

You, on the other hand, present yourself as this white steed of morality-- this example for us all to follow.  In these threads, you've told us all how you wouldn't chase such a bad storm, you would be more helpful to the victims, you would be more humble about it, you wouldn't profit, etc.

 

Voices from the sidelines eventually ring hollow.  Sorry you think I'm arrogant; it's funny, because that is how I see you.  And if I feel like I'm being judged, I'm going to challenge that.

 

Not sure we have anything else to say about this.

 

P.S.  I genuinely appreciate your kind remarks about my footage-- I really, seriously do-- although our interactions are of course colored  by what I perceive to be constant judgment.

[HurricaneJosh]

I have no issues with legitimate questions. However, I rightfully take exception with sarcastic and disingenuous posts suggesting I may not have any hurricane footage, when you know full well I do.

Just for the record, I'm not so arrogant as to tell you, or anyone else, how they should chase. That said, I do reserve the right to share my genuine and most heartfelt opinions regarding such topics as the one being discussed in this thread.

Let me be clear, so there's no misunderstanding. You did an excellent job capturing some truly awesome TC footage during Typhoon Hiayan. As I stated in your chase thread, I personally consider it to be some of the best TC footage captured on film. I also have consistently commended your efforts, and those of others, who chose to risk their own lives to help others. That said, these facts don't preclude me from sharing the other personal opinions I have on this particular subject matter. If you, or anyone else, chooses to believe I might be jealous, feel any personal animosity towards you, or just simply lack experience in the field, they would be wholly incorrect on all accounts.

That aside, I have no desire to get into any unnecessary confrontation with you on this subject, and hope you too have a wonderful rest of the night!

 

Thanks, Tony.  You have a good night as well.

[ncforecaster89]

The difference between you and me, Tony, is this: you present yourself as an example for us to follow, I don't.

I just get out there and chase. I go for it. I do my best. I don't offer any explanation or justification for chasing-- I do it because I want to-- and that's that. If you're cool with that, great. If not, OK.

You, on the other hand, present yourself as this white steed of morality-- this example for us all to follow. In these threads, you've told us all how you wouldn't chase such a bad storm, you would be more helpful to the victims, you would be more humble about it, you wouldn't profit, etc.

Voices from the sidelines eventually ring hollow. Sorry you think I'm arrogant; it's funny, because that is how I see you.

Not sure we have anything else to say about this.

P.S. I genuinely appreciate your kind remarks about my footage-- I really, seriously do-- although our interactions are of course colored by what I perceive to be constant judgment.

Here's a post I can genuinely appreciate and I can objectively understand where you're coming from. I can see how my previous posts could be mischaracterized as arrogant and judgemental, although that's not the intent of such posts.

As I've noted earlier in this thread, my views on certain aspects of chasing have evolved over time-after seeing, first-hand, the incredible devastation left in the wakes of such storms as Sandy, Ike, and Katrina.

More than anything, I'm truly sorry that I have given you the impression that I am being unjustly judgemental of you, and presenting myself as the example others should follow. That was certainly not my intention. I just was simply sharing my personal opinions on the subject of the thread.

Anyway, I genuinely hope you have a great rest of the weekend.

[HurricaneJosh]

Here's a post I can genuinely appreciate and I can objectively understand where you're coming from. I can see how my previous posts could be mischaracterized as arrogant and judgemental, although that's not the intent of such posts.

As I've noted earlier in this thread, my views on certain aspects of chasing have evolved over time-after seeing, first-hand, the incredible devastation left in the wakes of such storms as Sandy, Ike, and Katrina.

More than anything, I'm truly sorry that I have given you the impression that I am being unjustly judgemental of you, and presenting myself as the example others should follow. That was certainly not my intention. I just was simply sharing my personal opinions on the subject of the thread.

Anyway, I genuinely hope you have a great rest of the weekend.

 

Thanks, Tony-- I appreciate it.  Have a good weekend yourself.