Storm Chasing and Media Coverage Ethics

[andyhb]

I've lost a ton of respect for Cantore in the last couple of years.  TWC is a whole different story but Cantore's comments in that video were embarrassingly hypocritical.

 

I see his endorsing of quite a few videos in Reed-like style in his recent tweets.

[powderfreak]

That is amazingly hypocritical and I'm quite disappointed in Cantore. I used to love watching him through the 90s where he'd be on-air and live at every major weather disaster in the US. His better play would have been to discuss how to make chasing safer or guidelines to follow, rather than just trying to place blame on other folks who produce exciting weather video. I mean, he can't be serious given all the times we've seen him in the eye wall of a major hurricane, filming in the stairwell of some power-less, evacuated beach-side motel while huge waves threaten to take the place out to sea.

TWC wants to talk about blaming someone else...but I also love how during hurricanes or tropical cyclones they have their reporters like standing knee deep in the ocean at night while reporting..."Well Vivian as you can see I am standing where there isn't usually water but now we are thigh deep in storm surge that is threatening to knock me down and take me out sea. We think this is a good spot to video at night (even though I can't swim) to show you the power of the ocean, and so you can see if I get taken out by a wave, there's no way to save me."

The best is always the disclaimer..."no one else should ever try this. If you are still outside, you need to get to a shelter immediately. This is a life threatening situation. We are the only ones that should be out here because we are trained at standing and talking (at the same time!) in extreme weather conditions."

[Amped]

That's pathetic, I mean c'mon look in the mirror for once.

Same goes to every member here. We'd all make dumb moves if there were frequent tornado outbreaks near I95.   We'd all know it's dangerous but most of us would give into the urge, and get much closer to the tornado than we'd advise others to get.. I'm one of the few honest members willing to admit that.

[cmichweather]

Jim's comments are complete bull****. Linking the Sean video with what happen to Tim is a load of crap. They are the conservative group that doesn't care about that sort of video and had deployed probes for research. It's a big tornado that doubled or tripled in size in a few minutes, it grew to 2.6 miles and had ef-2's wrapping around its outer edge. I do get his big picture speech that the TIV-2 getting that footage may have caused others to "up their game" this was not the case with Tim. He should apologize for saying that Tim was trying to emulate the TIV-2 and that they had gotten closer to the storm because of that video. 

[StormScotter]

Maybe it's the extreme cynic in me, but I think whenever you hear a talking head make controversial comments on-air, you have to put them in their proper context and perspective: they're likely canned and scripted, potentially even by the station's management or producers. That's why I wasn't all that outraged to see Mike Bettes, presenter of the infamous "Open Mike" segment after 11/7/11 condemning Andy G. and others, get rolled last week. I doubt that Mike Bettes, the human, was personally compelled to pen that diatribe and read it on-air. At best, it was probably something partially inspired by his real convictions that he wrote at the behest of producers. At worst, and perhaps more likely, it was simply written by said producers and handed to him half an hour before showtime.

 

And so, I assume, it is with Cantore's latest comments. He has to know how inanely hypocritical and disingenuous the whole thing seems, in light of not only the Tornado Hunters becoming the Hunted last week, but the subsequent half-assed TWC coverup of the driver's life-threatening injuries. The anger ought to be directed toward the management at TWC, rather than the figureheads; at least, any anger over the content we're seeing. Anger directed toward Bettes and Cantore might better be focused on their willingness to sell out their dignity and intellect for tidy salaries.

 

I want to agree with you, but Cantore has been an ass on Twitter to anyone who has called him out.   I guess you can give him the benefit of the doubt if you think TWC has editorial control over his Twitter feed, but he's been rapid to respond to any criticism of his segment and thoughts about TIV2's video in particular.

 

Meanwhile, later today he was pimping one of Reed's videos of El Reno as 'awesome'.

[phlwx]

Maybe it's the extreme cynic in me, but I think whenever you hear a talking head make controversial comments on-air, you have to put them in their proper context and perspective: they're likely canned and scripted, potentially even by the station's management or producers. That's why I wasn't all that outraged to see Mike Bettes, presenter of the infamous "Open Mike" segment after 11/7/11 condemning Andy G. and others, get rolled last week. I doubt that Mike Bettes, the human, was personally compelled to pen that diatribe and read it on-air. At best, it was probably something partially inspired by his real convictions that he wrote at the behest of producers. At worst, and perhaps more likely, it was simply written by said producers and handed to him half an hour before showtime.

 

And so, I assume, it is with Cantore's latest comments. He has to know how inanely hypocritical and disingenuous the whole thing seems, in light of not only the Tornado Hunters becoming the Hunted last week, but the subsequent half-assed TWC coverup of the driver's life-threatening injuries. The anger ought to be directed toward the management at TWC, rather than the figureheads; at least, any anger over the content we're seeing. Anger directed toward Bettes and Cantore might better be focused on their willingness to sell out their dignity and intellect for tidy salaries.

 

You would think for credibility/reputation that producers and higher ups at TWC would realize that such actions make their big names look embarrassingly foolish.  I'm sure the producer and higher up doesn't have any skin in the game because they're not in front of the camera but Bettes and Cantore look awful based on the actions of the past week.

 

That said, you'd think Bettes and Cantore would have enough balls to question some of this stuff that goes on (as you put it, selling out their dignity) but the management needs to understand that their "goods" are damaged when they put them in a position to look like raging hypocrites.

 

Adding to that, Cantore's willingness to whore out Timmer over twitter in light of these comments on YouTube makes him look even worse.

[mappy]

Yes, the hypocrisy is what makes Cantore look bad. I think he may have forgotten that Reed became famous for driving into tornadoes with an armored vehicle

[SmokeEater]

My how far Cantore has fallen, I've lost all respect for the guy after this. You know damn well if he was in the TIV, there's no way in hell he'd be trashing Sean like he is. It's not Sean's fault that the only live reporting Cantore could do pretty much every day that week was either from a mud road or ditch that the Doninator was stuck in.

[*IndyMeso*]

FWIW Mike Morgan is being publicly being criticized for his tornado advice.

 

http://weather.yahoo.com/oklahoma-tv-weatherman-vilified-tornado-advice-052413546.html

[wxsniss]

From NYTimes, a positive take on how a "grassroots" network of storm chasers has helped advance the science of tornadoes:

How Storm Chasers Have Made Tornado Alley Safer

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/how-storm-chasers-have-made-tornado-alley-safe

 

I think this forum is itself testimony to how powerful and valuable such a self-motivated network can be.

 

Excerpt:

Rather than a presidential proclamation or an Act of Congress, the creation of the storm warning system was a David versus Goliath story of individual scientists overcoming the bureaucracy...

How did we learn Doppler radar really worked? “Ground truth” – having someone on the ground confirm or deny that the swirl of air shown on the radar was really a tornado. And, more often than not, that someone was a storm chaser or storm spotter.

[LocoAko]

FWIW Mike Morgan is being publicly being criticized for his tornado advice.

 

http://weather.yahoo.com/oklahoma-tv-weatherman-vilified-tornado-advice-052413546.html

 

Was only a matter of time until a story like this came to light, just highlighting the fatal misconception pushed by various places in the media that tornadoes are not survivable above ground. 

 

http://newsok.com/5-died-when-oklahoma-family-fled-to-drainage-tunnel-to-escape-tornadoes/article/3849538

[OceanStWx]

One thing I have to say is that whenever there is a "close call" many chasers are quick to latch onto the "I'm doing this to save lives," "perform a service for the NWS," etc.

 

It's really a false representation. Chasers do what they do for a variety of reasons, but more often than not storm spotting is secondary (though the reports are of extreme importance). I myself chased to see things from the other side of the radar for a change, and to get a great picture of a classic Plains supercell. If I saw something of importance I had all the potential WFO numbers at hand, but that was certainly not the reason I was out there.

 

This is what is stated on the SKYWARN website:

 

SKYWARN spotters are not by definition “Storm Chasers”. While their functions and methods are similar, the spotter stays close to home and usually has ties to a local agency. Storm chasers often cover hundreds of miles a day. The term Storm Chaser covers a wide variety of people. Some are meteorologists doing specific research or are gathering basic information (like video) for training and comparison to radar data. Others chase storms to provide live information for the media, and others simply do it for the thrill.

 

 

The NWS does not ask anybody to chase storms, but rather report on storms that pass near their community. The NWS certainly does not ask anyone to get within yards of an "insane" wedge. So when I hear things like that as justification for why chasers got so close it rubs me the wrong way. It does a disservice to SKYWARN and the good the program does.

[brettjrob]

One thing I have to say is that whenever there is a "close call" many chasers are quick to latch onto the "I'm doing this to save lives," "perform a service for the NWS," etc.

 

It's really a false representation. Chasers do what they do for a variety of reasons, but more often than not storm spotting is secondary (though the reports are of extreme importance). I myself chased to see things from the other side of the radar for a change, and to get a great picture of a classic Plains supercell. If I saw something of importance I had all the potential WFO numbers at hand, but that was certainly not the reason I was out there.

 

This is what is stated on the SKYWARN website:

 

 

The NWS does not ask anybody to chase storms, but rather report on storms that pass near their community. The NWS certainly does not ask anyone to get within yards of an "insane" wedge. So when I hear things like that as justification for why chasers got so close it rubs me the wrong way. It does a disservice to SKYWARN and the good the program does.

 

You are almost entirely correct in your perception of chasers who use the "saving lives" mantra. It is unfortunate. At the same time, it's also unfortunate that some segment of the media and public crucify us for our hobby if they *don't* believe saving lives is our main driver (e.g., see news pieces where a distinction if often made between "real chasers" saving lives and "reckless thrill-seekers" who out just out to photograph the storm). The extent and importance of that problem is debatable, and it's not really an excuse. But it has to be factored into the equation, especially for higher-profile chasers who are regularly in contact with the media and public. To be honest, I think some of them feel obligated to give that answer when asked specifically why they chase, just to save face for the rest of the chasing community.

 

Regarding SKYWARN, in the Plains states, experience tells me chasers are significantly more effective, contributing more and better reports on most severe weather days. If chasing were banned tomorrow, the quantity and quality of reports would probably decline rather noticeably out here. In your area, of course, I imagine that's not the case.

[Tullioz]

Josh may have PTSD after this event and may never go for a cat5+ chase again, but then again it may be the most exilerating feeling of his life

 

They clearly made a mistake in chasing this one and I made a few posts on this earlier in the thread. They will suffer both physically and emotionally when all is said and done. What provisions they have on hand will be depleted within a day or two. Even if they brought a truckload of food and water it will be gone. It will have to be shared with everyone in the vicinity. Relief will be slow to come even in a city the size of Tacloban, and they will be competing with a lot of people for access to food and water. Also keep in mind that bathing and personal hygiene will also be difficult to maintain. 

 

I am currently coordinating with the same team I traveled to Baganga with last December to try to ferry relief goods to some of the more remote areas such as Guiuan and some of the smaller islands in the Leyte Gulf where relief will be very slow to reach. It was almost three weeks before any government or international aid reached Baganga so I would imagine the situation will be the same this go around as the focus is usually on the more urban areas. Unfortunately transportation will be the biggest expense. Based on experience travel on Leyte Island to reach Toloban will be slow if not impossible, therefore I will have to charter a boat once we reach Surigao in Northeastern Mindanao. I have communicated  with some services in this area this morning and the cost of a boat for 48 hours will run around $1800. It is possible I can negotiate a better rate once I arrive. 

 

It would be nice if I were able to contact Josh and his crew before making the trip as I would be able to drop medical and food supplies there in Tacloban as part of this trip and perhaps evacuate them in the process. They would know by then where they would be needed most and then we could move on from there.

 

During my relief efforts following Bopha I was able to distribute more than 30 backpacks of medicines like the one seen below. The cost is very cheap at only $40 for everything seen and each contains 700 capsules of Loperamide (anti-diarrheal) 300 Paracetamol tablets (Pain Reliever) 400 capsules of Amoxicillin (antibiotic) and 50 Oral Re hydration packets and they will go along way in saving lives in the weeks to come. 

 

 

Not sure if this is a feasible operation at this hour, but I am serious about attempting it. I would of course need help in raising funds to make the trip as well. Not sure if this is the appropriate place to organize something like this, but I am in a unique position being this close by and having unlimited access to relief goods. If anyone is interested in trying to make this happen please message me. Here is a link to my FB page for those who want to see what it is I am doing here in Mindanao and may have questions about my integrity https://www.facebook.com/joseph.zanetti.9

 

I also run a learning center for children who belong to the Badjao tribe here in Davao City. This ties up a lot of my finances, but I do have about $1,200 on hand to go towards this relief effort. I would think that this could be done for around $3,000 which would leave about $1,000 in relief goods after transportation expenses. You can purchase a lot of rice and sardines with that amount as well as several of the medical packs. Of course, the more that is raised the more we can get to those in need. It is unfortunate that the transportation costs will be so high, but there is really no way around it. I can be available to make the trip as early as Monday morning if we can organize it in time. Perhaps leaving around Midnight Sunday if all goes well. Unfortunately there appears to be yet another tropical system, albeit weak, threatening the region as early as Monday night.

 

Mods, if this is not the place for such a post, please delete it and advise me on what may be a better way to accomplish this effort. I can assure you that lives will be saved. 

[David Reimer]

They clearly made a mistake in chasing this one and I made a few posts on this earlier in the thread. They will suffer both physically and emotionally when all is said and done. What provisions they have on hand will be depleted within a day or two. Even if they brought a truckload of food and water it will be gone. It will have to be shared with everyone in the vicinity. Relief will be slow to come even in a city the size of Tacloban, and they will be competing with a lot of people for access to food and water. Also keep in mind that bathing and personal hygiene will also be difficult to maintain. 

 

I am currently coordinating with the same team I traveled to Baganga with last December to try to ferry relief goods to some of the more remote areas such as Guiuan and some of the smaller islands in the Leyte Gulf where relief will be very slow to reach. It was almost three weeks before any government or international aid reached Baganga so I would imagine the situation will be the same this go around as the focus is usually on the more urban areas. Unfortunately transportation will be the biggest expense. Based on experience travel on Leyte Island to reach Toloban will be slow if not impossible, therefore I will have to charter a boat once we reach Surigao in Northeastern Mindanao. I have communicated  with some services in this area this morning and the cost of a boat for 48 hours will run around $1800. It is possible I can negotiate a better rate once I arrive. 

 

It would be nice if I were able to contact Josh and his crew before making the trip as I would be able to drop medical and food supplies there in Tacloban as part of this trip and perhaps evacuate them in the process. They would know by then where they would be needed most and then we could move on from there.

 

During my relief efforts following Bopha I was able to distribute more than 30 backpacks of medicines like the one seen below. The cost is very cheap at only $40 for everything seen and each contains 700 capsules of Loperamide (anti-diarrheal) 300 Paracetamol tablets (Pain Reliever) 400 capsules of Amoxicillin (antibiotic) and 50 Oral Re hydration packets and they will go along way in saving lives in the weeks to come. 

 

pack.jpg

 

Not sure if this is a feasible operation at this hour, but I am serious about attempting it. I would of course need help in raising funds to make the trip as well. Not sure if this is the appropriate place to organize something like this, but I am in a unique position being this close by and having unlimited access to relief goods. If anyone is interested in trying to make this happen please message me. Here is a link to my FB page for those who want to see what it is I am doing here in Mindanao and may have questions about my integrity https://www.facebook.com/joseph.zanetti.9

 

I also run a learning center for children who belong to the Badjao tribe here in Davao City. This ties up a lot of my finances, but I do have about $1,200 on hand to go towards this relief effort. I would think that this could be done for around $3,000 which would leave about $1,000 in relief goods after transportation expenses. You can purchase a lot of rice and sardines with that amount as well as several of the medical packs. Of course, the more that is raised the more we can get to those in need. It is unfortunate that the transportation costs will be so high, but there is really no way around it. I can be available to make the trip as early as Monday morning if we can organize it in time. Perhaps leaving around Midnight Sunday if all goes well. Unfortunately there appears to be yet another tropical system, albeit weak, threatening the region as early as Monday night.

 

Mods, if this is not the place for such a post, please delete it and advise me on what may be a better way to accomplish this effort. I can assure you that lives will be saved. 

 

Very few people on this forum have the right to call out another chaser and their decisions. They did what they love to do. Like chasing tornadoes, it comes with hardships and negatives. This won't be their last chase. They'll be traumatized and never forget this chase, but I doubt it will be their last. It takes a special breed to chase hurricanes and tornadoes. I'm not talking about the average Joe who goes out with a phone and laptop. Josh spent thousands of dollars going across the world. 

I've called out my fair share of bad chaser decisions, but that's because I've earned that right after going through my own battles. I'm not going to let someone who has no idea what they're talking about start slamming another chaser. That goes for many folks here. Josh undoubtedly is going to be traumatized, but that happens when chasing mother nature. She presents many beautiful things, but also has a nasty side to her. 

 

Let the information come out before you start criticizing a decision. 

[Tullioz]

Very few people on this forum have the right to call out another chaser and their decisions. They did what they love to do. Like chasing tornadoes, it comes with hardships and negatives. This won't be their last chase. They'll be traumatized and never forget this chase, but I doubt it will be their last. It takes a special breed to chase hurricanes and tornadoes. I'm not talking about the average Joe who goes out with a phone and laptop. Josh spent thousands of dollars going across the world. 

I've called out my fair share of bad chaser decisions, but that's because I've earned that right after going through my own battles. I'm not going to let someone who has no idea what they're talking about start slamming another chaser. That goes for many folks here. Josh undoubtedly is going to be traumatized, but that happens when chasing mother nature. She presents many beautiful things, but also has a nasty side to her. 

 

Let the information come out before you start criticizing a decision. 

 

 

 

It is great news that they have been accounted for and have safely evacuated the city. However, I stand by my statement that they made a mistake in chasing this one.  Josh and I have exchanged PM's in the past and I have no issues with him personally. Experienced or not, it was a poor decision and a very selfish one.

[ncforecaster89]

In all fairness and truth, Tullioz has a right to his opinion.

If we are being completely honest, most storm chasers (myself included) choose to chase severe weather, first and foremost, so that they can experience mother nature at its worst, first-hand. Given that, one can understand Tullioz's point that we are intentionally putting ourselves in harms way, and don't have to live in such heart wrenching and calamitous conditions (more than a few days), as will be the case for those who actually live there.

I am assuming this might be the perspective from which Tulliox is coming from. If so, one can make a valid argument that it's somewhat selfish to put ourselves in these situations, making us an unnecessary liability for others. Being totally objective and intellectually honest, I can appreciate and respect Tulliox's point.

[patrick05]

In all fairness and truth, Tullioz has a right to his opinion.

If we are being completely honest, most storm chasers (myself included) choose to chase severe weather, first and foremost, so that they can experience mother nature at its worst, first-hand. Given that, one can understand Tullioz's point that we are intentionally putting ourselves in harms way, and don't have to live in such heart wrenching and calamitous conditions (more than a few days), as will be the case for those who actually live there.

I am assuming this might be the perspective from which Tulliox is coming from. If so, one can make a valid argument that it's somewhat selfish to put ourselves in these situations, making us an unnecessary liability for others. Being totally objective and intellectually honest, I can appreciate and respect Tulliox's point.

 

and to be fair Tullioz has been through it as well last year with Bopha so he knows what is up with winds, rains, and damages... i have no qualms with the team intercepting Haiyan and then flying out of there first thing in the morning... but it's also understandable to have criticisms from people who come from other perspectives... i mean, the space on the plane could've been used to bring in more dead bodies but i believe Mike required surgery so that's probably why they were able to get in.

 

again, massive props to Josh and the rest for actually going with this...

[Tullioz]

In all fairness and truth, Tullioz has a right to his opinion.

If we are being completely honest, most storm chasers (myself included) choose to chase severe weather, first and foremost, so that they can experience mother nature at its worst, first-hand. Given that, one can understand Tullioz's point that we are intentionally putting ourselves in harms way, and don't have to live in such heart wrenching and calamitous conditions (more than a few days), as will be the case for those who actually live there.

I am assuming this might be the perspective from which Tulliox is coming from. If so, one can make a valid argument that it's somewhat selfish to put ourselves in these situations, making us an unnecessary liability for others. Being totally objective and intellectually honest, I can appreciate and respect Tulliox's point.

 

Another issue I have with storm chasers is they gain fame and notoriety at the expense of other's suffering. While not directly responsible for the aftermath, their motives do come across as self serving to me. I would hope a large portion of any financial gain or royalties that Josh and his team may receive in the future will go towards the victims of this storm as a way of showing appreciation to their hospitality during their brief stay.

 

I also find it to be unfair that they were so easily plucked away while tens of thousands remain behind. There will be many in that city who will have similar injuries as Mark's who will either have to have their leg amputated or perhaps die because of infection and their lack of special treatment that these guys obviously received. The citizens of this country should have priority over some guys from abroad who put themselves in harms way by choice.  They should have been the last ones out in my opinion, but I am glad they are safe just the same. 

[andyhb]

I also find it to be unfair that they were so easily plucked away while tens of thousands remain behind. There will be many in that city who will have similar injuries as Mark's who will either have to have their leg amputated or perhaps die because of infection and their lack of special treatment that these guys obviously received. The citizens of this country should have priority over some guys from abroad who put themselves in harms way by choice.  They should have been the last ones out in my opinion, but I am glad they are safe just the same. 

 

I'll object here.

 

People are people. Just because Mark received treatment faster than others doesn't necessarily mean they were treated preferentially, for all we know they were closer to the area that medical aid first arrived. If stories start coming out of more foreigners being airlifted out or receiving more supplies than the locals, then that judgement might be able to be made, but this is going too far, too early.

[Tullioz]

I'll object here.

 

People are people. Just because Mark received treatment faster than others doesn't necessarily mean they were treated preferentially, for all we know they were closer to the area that medical aid first arrived. If stories start coming out of more foreigners being airlifted out or receiving more supplies than the locals, then that judgement might be able to be made, but this is going too far, too ea

I do not know the details from this particular incident, but they being foreigners and having financial resources in all likelihood is what got them out so fast. I guess we will know in time. I also witnessed first hand in the weeks and months following Bopha what happens when you do not get immediate treatment for even the most minor of injuries. People died because they lacked the most basic of medical treatment. Simple antibiotics would have saved lives which they lacked following the storm. Medical care here in the Philippines is unlike that found in the West. Money always comes before a persons well being. Those who are well off will get treatment before those who lack funds. Families with money will be airlifted out while the majority will suffer. 

 

People may be people, but in third world countries that is not always the case especially when that comes to disaster response and health care. 

.  

[ncforecaster89]

I'll object here.

People are people. Just because Mark received treatment faster than others doesn't necessarily mean they were treated preferentially, for all we know they were closer to the area that medical aid first arrived. If stories start coming out of more foreigners being airlifted out or receiving more supplies than the locals, then that judgement might be able to be made, but this is going too far, too early.

While I agree that it's unfair to suggest they got special treatment, I can understand the point Tulliox is making, in general. It's hard to argue that it's inherently fair that we "choose" to go into harms way and document the storm, and if injured, we take the place of a resident there who may also need medical attention-who didn't choose to be there, themselves. That's why I can't take exception with what Tulliox is saying, in general.

[thewxmann]

I do not know the details from this particular incident, but they being foreigners and having financial resources in all likelihood is what got them out so fast. I guess we will know in time. I also witnessed first hand in the weeks and months following Bopha what happens when you do not get immediate treatment for even the most minor of injuries. People died because they lacked the most basic of medical treatment. Simple antibiotics would have saved lives which they lacked following the storm. Medical care here in the Philippines is unlike that found in the West. Money always comes before a persons well being. Those who are well off will get treatment before those who lack funds. Families with money will be airlifted out while the majority will suffer. 

 

Every person is entitled to proper health care. It sucks that some people can get it easier than others, but it doesn't mean that the people who are able to get it shouldn't get it when they need it!

 

Keep in mind that Mark didn't get injured because he was playing around in floodwaters -- the chasers were trying to extricate those trapped in the first floor of the hotel when the injury occurred. They could've just as easily stayed on the top floors and done nothing.

[Tullioz]

Haters gonna hate. Glad they are ok.

 

I could care less what josh and his crew do in regards to their personal life, so I am no hater. What bothers me is the way they and other storm chasers go into a community, then get extracted at the first opportunity they get. I know without doubt they got preferential treatment because I have experienced it first hand on many occasions since I have lived here. That being said, there are people who need help on the ground right now. Yes, it is great that they helped those in the hotel reach safety in their time of peril, But did they have a choice? No decent human can sit and watch as people are fighting for their lives. But now that the chaos is over why not help those who are still trapped? Help search for those missing? Why not just evacuate Mark and the others stay behind and assist? They are able bodied men and there is much they could do to contribute in helping those less fortunate than themselves.

 

I hope they will contribute to the relief efforts as I mentioned earlier and I guess we need to just wait and hear their side before criticizing too much. Maybe that is their intention, who knows?  

[H2O]

Glad josh and crew are fine and all that.

As far as ethics and questioning them for going, it is easy to do and say they shouldn't have but josh doesn't just fly off to each one to sit in a breeze and say zomg! Josh does have a scientific purpose to doing this so it's not like it's all for the thrill.

And until we hear the total story, attacking him for taking resources away from others just because he was there is a knee jerk reaction. Look at it this was. If he HADN'T gone would people in the hotel have been further hurt because he wasn't there to help? Based on his early account his chasing duties stopped the minute there were people in need.

[mappy]

Glad josh and crew are fine and all that.

As far as ethics and questioning them for going, it is easy to do and say they shouldn't have but josh doesn't just fly off to each one to sit in a breeze and say zomg! Josh does have a scientific purpose to doing this so it's not like it's all for the thrill.

And until we hear the total story, attacking him for taking resources away from others just because he was there is a knee jerk reaction. Look at it this was. If he HADN'T gone would people in the hotel have been further hurt because he wasn't there to help? Based on his early account his chasing duties stopped the minute there were people in need.

This

[BxEngine]

Glad josh and crew are fine and all that.

As far as ethics and questioning them for going, it is easy to do and say they shouldn't have but josh doesn't just fly off to each one to sit in a breeze and say zomg! Josh does have a scientific purpose to doing this so it's not like it's all for the thrill.

And until we hear the total story, attacking him for taking resources away from others just because he was there is a knee jerk reaction. Look at it this was. If he HADN'T gone would people in the hotel have been further hurt because he wasn't there to help? Based on his early account his chasing duties stopped the minute there were people in need.

Its unfair to say "he helped save lives while he was there" while at the same time saying discussion about whether his evac may have cost lives shouldnt be talked about yet. Thats disingenuous.

[wxeyeNH]

Josh and I have exchanged PM's in the past and I have no issues with him personally. Experienced or not, it was a poor decision and a very selfish one.

It looks like they put down the cameras and helped evacuate the elderly as the water quickly rose. To me that is not selfish. Perhaps they even saved a life. I would also guess, knowing Josh that after what he has seen he might make a generous donation to help with the aid, I will.

[H2O]

Its unfair to say "he helped save lives while he was there" while at the same time saying discussion about whether his evac may have cost lives shouldnt be talked about yet. Thats disingenuous.

My point was mainly to say lets hear the full story first. He was there, he said they helped and then they got evac'd. It paints an unfair picture to say he rolled out when others may have needed it. I'm also not trying to say he was a hero. They could have been ordered out for all we know

[needbiggerboat]

Tullioz is absolutely and 100% justified in his observations and comments.

It's supremely arrogant for anyone to say he "has no idea what he's talking about" or to snipe at him as a "hater".