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Severe Thunderstorms Sunday 6/2

free_man

By free_man,
in New England

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CoastalWx

CoastalWx

Posted
Posted

Yeah it was. 

 

The storm was basically unsurvivable for some storm chasers in normally "safe" spots. Just incredible and very frightening.

 

And those researches were to the north of the tornado near I-40? Do we know if they were deploying probes? That just seems like a dangerous spot to be in with a beast that could cycle at any moment.

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted

So basically the sub vort formed and immed was moving 150 mph? Those poor souls didn't stand a chance

 

So within the larger tornado circulation outer wall, for lack of a better word, there are smaller vorticies that rotate around (a la merry go round). These were tracked on the mobile radar units as moving at 150 mph.

 

The larger parent circulation was also rotating in loops via the thunderstorms meso. So a circulation within a circulation within a circulation.

 

http://wdssii.nssl.noaa.gov/web/wdss2/products/radar/NWRT_20130531_ElReno.gif

 

You can see it do at least 3 loops in the hi-res radar data. So the tornado itself moved N and S at times. With such erratic motion that's why it was so dangerous for the chasers to be as congested and as close as they were.

 

There is also word of a 4th amateur chaser that passed away in El Reno. In addition to flooding deaths in roadside ditches. It seems to me that all deaths were directly or indirectly car related.

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CT Rain

CT Rain

Posted
Posted

And those researches were to the north of the tornado near I-40? Do we know if they were deploying probes? That just seems like a dangerous spot to be in with a beast that could cycle at any moment.

 

They were actually south of I-40 on some of the side roads off Rt 81 from what I've heard. I had assumed they were all near I-40 but that wasn't the case. Many of them were off 81 and probably planned on cutting south until they were stopped by 100+ mph inflow and subvorticies racing at them miles ahead of the tornado.

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radarman

radarman

Posted
Posted

Seeing as this was the leftovers from the tornadoes in Oklahoma on 5/31 I thought I'd post an update for interested parties in New England.

 

OUN has upgraded the El Reno tornado to an EF5 based on a measured 296 mph wind sampled by a DOW. In addition, they have confirmed a 2.6 mile wide circulation, making it the largest tornado on record (beating Hallam, NE in 2004 by 0.1 mile).

 

Also through internal discussion they remotely sampled the suction vorticies rotating around the parent circulation as moving at roughly 150 mph. Kind of previously not even considered a possibility.

 

How can they call something an EF5 based on radar measured winds?  I thought it was a damage scale...

 

That said, it was clearly a violent tornado and the width was incredible.

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CoastalWx

CoastalWx

Posted
Posted

They were actually south of I-40 on some of the side roads off Rt 81 from what I've heard. I had assumed they were all near I-40 but that wasn't the case. Many of them were off 81 and probably planned on cutting south until they were stopped by 100+ mph inflow and subvorticies racing at them miles ahead of the tornado.

 

Wow, that's just an unfortunate set of events then. It's tough for me to picture how this happened especially as it was about to yank north or soon was about to curl north, but that monster must have clipped them with a satellite vortex. Jesus.

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted

They were actually south of I-40 on some of the side roads off Rt 81 from what I've heard. I had assumed they were all near I-40 but that wasn't the case. Many of them were off 81 and probably planned on cutting south until they were stopped by 100+ mph inflow and subvorticies racing at them miles ahead of the tornado.

 

Based on the videos I've seen, the tornado was moving right to left so they were heading south. This must have been after they made it back onto 81. Makes sense as this was the obvious escape route.

 

I think it wedged out so fast and probably accelerated SE as it did so that escape was cut off.

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CoastalWx

CoastalWx

Posted
Posted

In a TOR like this one.. How far out does that inflow extend. ? Can you be out of the direct path of it but be in the inflow and still have massive wind and damage?

 

Tornadoes have inflow jets...in other words...winds aren't necessarily uniform around the circulation. Those inflow jets are about as dangerous as the tornado if there is debris on the ground. Those things can go out way beyond the tornado..maybe a mile or so depending on the size. Obviously the winds get strong and accelerate the closer you are to the parent vortex.

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted

How can they call something an EF5 based on radar measured winds?  I thought it was a damage scale...

 

That said, it was clearly a violent tornado and the width was incredible.

 

 

It is a little subjective there, but if you have the data right? In this case there are reports of cars being tossed a distance similar to other EF5s of the past. So I can't argue the upgrade.

 

This also was mainly rural areas with less damage indicators to hit. Similar to the El Reno tornado from May 24, 2001.

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ORH_wxman

ORH_wxman

Posted
Posted

 

How can they call something an EF5 based on radar measured winds?  I thought it was a damage scale...

 

That said, it was clearly a violent tornado and the width was incredible.

 

If there's nothing to damage, all you have are wind measurements. Is a tornado with 220 mph winds that tracks over a corn field and then ropes out an EF5?

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Damage In Tolland

Damage In Tolland

Posted
Posted

Tornadoes have inflow jets...in other words...winds aren't necessarily uniform around the circulation. Those inflow jets are about as dangerous as the tornado if there is debris on the ground. Those things can go out way beyond the tornado..maybe a mile or so depending on the size. Obviously the winds get strong and accelerate the closer you are to the parent vortex.

So for example: the SFD TOR in 2011 . That may have caused damage and super strong winds even up to a mike away from the direct path?
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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted

Tornadoes have inflow jets...in other words...winds aren't necessarily uniform around the circulation. Those inflow jets are about as dangerous as the tornado if there is debris on the ground. Those things can go out way beyond the tornado..maybe a mile or so depending on the size. Obviously the winds get strong and accelerate the closer you are to the parent vortex.

 

No doubt the inflow into this storm was probably severe in and of itself (i.e. 58+ mph).

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CoastalWx

CoastalWx

Posted
Posted

So for example: the SFD TOR in 2011 . That may have caused damage and super strong winds even up to a mike away from the direct path?

 

Well I can't say for certain as I wasn't there doing a damage survey obviously, but I'm sure there were pockets of damage from that...probably not a mile away though. Don't forget wind experiences less friction out in the Plains too.

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radarman

radarman

Posted
Posted

Seeing as this was the leftovers from the tornadoes in Oklahoma on 5/31 I thought I'd post an update for interested parties in New England.

 

OUN has upgraded the El Reno tornado to an EF5 based on a measured 296 mph wind sampled by a DOW. In addition, they have confirmed a 2.6 mile wide circulation, making it the largest tornado on record (beating Hallam, NE in 2004 by 0.1 mile).

 

Also through internal discussion they remotely sampled the suction vorticies rotating around the parent circulation as moving at roughly 150 mph. Kind of previously not even considered a possibility.

 

I don't mean in any way to degrade the work of the xpol guys at OU.  I've worked with some of them in the past and they're quite good.   But being acutely aware of the imperfections of radar data, especially near ground, folded multiple times, and in the presence of an extremely chaotic system (such as an EF5 tornado), when we see things that are "previously not even considered a possibility" it demands a critical eye.  This was clearly an anomalous event, but I will be very eager to read the paper(s) that come out of it.  If their case holds water it would be truly an astounding finding and great job.

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted

I don't mean in any way to degrade the work of the xpol guys at OU.  I've worked with some of them in the past and they're quite good.   But being acutely aware of the imperfections of radar data, especially near ground, folded multiple times, and in the presence of an extremely chaotic system (such as an EF5 tornado), when we see things that are "previously not even considered a possibility" it demands a critical eye.  This was clearly an anomalous event, but I will be very eager to read the paper(s) that come out of it.  If their case holds water it would be truly an astounding finding and great job.

 

Completely agree with you. As we discussed it I took as, "I never previously wondered how fast these smaller vortices travel." And truly I've never thought about it myself.

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Baroclinic Zone

Baroclinic Zone

Posted
Posted

Looks like CAR confirmer tornado in ME the other day.

 

 

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CARIBOU ME
432 PM EDT MON JUN 3 2013

...TORNADO CONFIRMED NEAR EAGLE LAKE IN AROOSTOOK COUNTY MAINE...

LOCATION...EAGLE LAKE IN AROOSTOOK COUNTY MAINE
DATE...06/02/2013
ESTIMATED TIME...3:06 PM EDT
MAXIMUM EF-SCALE RATING...EF-0
ESTIMATED MAXIMUM WIND SPEED...70 MPH
MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH...50 YARDS
PATH LENGTH...80 YARDS
BEGINNING LAT/LON...47.0703N / 68.6045W
ENDING LAT/LON...47.0704N / 68.6034W
* FATALITIES...0
* INJURIES...0

* THE INFORMATION IN THIS STATEMENT IS PRELIMINARY AND SUBJECT TO
CHANGE PENDING FINAL REVIEW OF THE EVENT(S) AND PUBLICATION IN
NWS STORM DATA.

...SUMMARY...
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN CARIBOU ME HAS CONFIRMED A
TORNADO 2 MILES NORTH OF THE TOWN OF EAGLE LAKE IN AROOSTOOK
COUNTY MAINE ON 06/02/2013.

THIS WAS A VERY SMALL AND BRIEF TORNADO WHICH WAS ACTUALLY ON THE
LEADING EDGE OF A MICROBURST WHICH CAUSED MUCH MORE WIDESPREAD
TREE DAMAGE FROM ALONG EAGLE LAKE, NORTHEASTWARD TOWARD CROSS LAKE.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON MICROSBURSTS GO TO
WWW.SRH.WEATHER.GOV/JETSTREAM/TSTORMS/WIND.HTM (LOWER CASE).

THIS INFORMATION CAN ALSO BE FOUND ON OUR WEBSITE AT
WEATHER.GOV/CAR.

FOR REFERENCE...THE ENHANCED FUJITA SCALE CLASSIFIES TORNADOES
INTO THE FOLLOWING CATEGORIES:

EF0...WIND SPEEDS 65 TO 85 MPH.
EF1...WIND SPEEDS 86 TO 110 MPH.
EF2...WIND SPEEDS 111 TO 135 MPH.
EF3...WIND SPEEDS 136 TO 165 MPH.
EF4...WIND SPEEDS 166 TO 200 MPH.
EF5...WIND SPEEDS GREATER THAN 200 MPH.

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted

Wow

 

One, that's just awesome structure. Huge RFD dry slot, cutting around a massive tornadic circulation. Two, both vortices in that image are cyclonic. So the northwestern one is not some satellite tornado spun up off the RFD, it's one of those smaller vortices rotating around the parent. At least that's how I interpret it.

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