thewxmann Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Was thinking, now that it appears 24 is the final death toll (we were fortunate the early reports were incorrect, given we had an EF5 strike a populated area), did the storm occurring on a weekday lessen the death toll overall as more people would have been at work and not at home? The majority of the areas impacted were residential, and at least 50% of the fatalities were in non-residential locations (i.e. school/7-11). 54% of the loss of like in Joplin (which occurred on a Sunday) was in residences, despite more commercial/business areas being hit (Range Line Road area in particular). Would be interesting to get an idea of how many people were in the direct path of each storm. Moore was a wider storm with a longer path, but Joplin was more densely populated (smaller lots) Yes, the timing of the event did tend to limit the amount of residential fatalities. Moore has a similar population as Joplin, but I think the Joplin tornado went through more real estate -- Joplin is more stretched west-east, while Moore is more densely populated on its northern side. Of course by and far, the biggest factors in the lower death toll here is (a) more storm shelters; ( greater weather awareness in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn0waddict Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Couple more videos..the shear size of the tornado is just mesmerizing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a87ZVOIfb1o 7:06-9:11 in the second video is stunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Meso Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Congrats to the SPC and the local WFO for recognizing the possibilities that may happen. I haven't seen these posted but the 17z observed soundings from LMN and OUN look interesting indeed as LMN was 74/63 and OUN was at 81/72 suggesting a boundary had set in between the two sites. I think the local WFO at that time may have decided on pulling the trigger at the first indication of any rotation as shown in post #438 on page 13 of this thread.. First signs of rotation we mentioned at 2:39pm followed by warning being issued a 2:41pm. It appears as if the local office gave the absolute longest lead time that was possible. Would love to read what some of the Red Tags think after seeing these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Most reports I've seen indicate that the death toll will stay at 24 (unless the funeral home discrepancy turns out to be true), still a terrible tragedy, but fortunate that more did not perish (especially when many were talking 51 to as many as over 90 yesterday, which seemed very possible with such an intense tornado). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09-10 analogy Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Moore must be neck-and-neck with Tanner AL for the dubious distinction of Community Most Bedeviled by Powerful Tornadoes. Moore: two EF5s, an EF4 and an EF3 since 1999; Tanner: two F5s in 1974, EF5 in 2011, EF3 in 2012. I suppose Jackson TN, Tuscoloosa AL, and Birmingham metro area (along with OKC, of course, if we're counting metro areas) are in the running as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Here's a link to a kml of the NWS Survey. It will likely be updated as the surveys continue. http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/oun/wxevents/20130520/20130520-storm_survey_path_points.kmz So, the EF5 damage was from Briarwood Elementary. And do I have it right that that's the school with no fatalities? Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I'm amazed at what is touched during a tornado and what isn't. First the picture of the bowling pins and now this... http://twitpic.com/csbefn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallow Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 So, the EF5 damage was from Briarwood Elementary. And do I have it right that that's the school with no fatalities? Amazing. It was the school with no fatalities. But I'm not 100% sure most of the kids were even there... based on what I had found on Monday, Briarwood classes were released at 2:15 PM, which is before the email (at 2:45 PM) that stated the kids would be held in school unless parents came to pick them up. Of course, some students and all/most teachers were probably still there for after-school stuff, but just based on that, I would posit that most of the students had already gone home. EDIT: Then again, based on the pictures, I may be completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Global_Warmer Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I had to do a double take when I read this one earlier, albeit it is an editorial. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/opinion/a-tornado-prone-areas-latest-tragedy.html?_r=0 "I can’t imagine the pain and sorrow of the parents of the children who didn’t make it through this round of tornadoes. Can you imagine the guilt they might be feeling for choosing to live in an area well known for these storms? If their houses have been destroyed, will they still think of rebuilding in the same spot, knowing what we all are coming to understand?" No way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUGrad05 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 No way? That is unbelievable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 What would you choose? MOORE, Okla. (AP) — With an ominous storm approaching, the Moore Public School District flashed a text alert to parents: “We are currently holding all students until the current storm danger is over. Students are being released to parents only at this time.” Parents had a gut-wrenching choice, and only a few minutes to make it. Trust the safety of the seemingly solid school buildings and the protection of trained teachers and staff. Or drive frantically ahead of a massive tornado and attempt to take their children safely home. “Something clicked in my head and said that my children would be afraid and they would be safer with me,” said Amy Sharp, who jumped in her pickup, peeled off through pounding rain and hail, and pulled her 10- and 12-year-old daughters out Plaza Towers Elementary School. Sharp survived with her children. But seven of the many remaining students died when the twister ripped down the school’s roof and walls. http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/22/school-where-7-students-died-lacked-tornado-safe-room/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchaumburgStormer Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I would hazard to guess that all homes that were built/rebuilt after the previous hits had solid construction. Spent some time in that area a few years ago for work (property insurance). There are certainly some "enhanced" and "different" code requirements than what is required in the Chicago metro. However, even the best built standard brick-on-frame homes are going to get chewed up as an EF4 hits. Probably what irritated me the most was watching the reports saying "brick homes completely destroyed, clearly EF5 damage". The fact is that most of the "brick" on homes is not structural, but a facade. So the brick is essentially hanging on the wood framing providing little additional support. True structural brick homes are few and far between due to additional cost considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacoman25 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Now that more of the facts are in, as tragic as this event was, I think it's safe to say that the number of casualties (given the size and strength of this tornado and the populated area that it hit) are something of a victory in the continuing effort to keep people as safe as possible in tornado alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebreaker5221 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Nice article on the scarcity of basements in Moore on CNN, often driven by misconceptions about cost / difficulty in building: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/22/us/oklahoma-tornado-basements/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Of course a safe room or underground storm shelter is safer than a basement in the event that the house above you is completely ripped off its hinges, but you're still safer in the basement than just the standard "interior room". Hopefully we'll start seeing people investing in at least one of the three (basement, safe room, storm shelter) during the rebuilding process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srain Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Update from Jeff L (Harris County Flood Control District) re Moore/Newcastle Tornado: 24 fatalities237 injured101 pulled alive from debris2450 homes damaged or destroyed10,000 persons affected The chance of the same location be hit by 2 EF 5 tornadoes is about 1 in a trillion. The 5-20-13 tornado was likely weaker than the 5-3-99 tornado which had winds recorded by a potable Doppler radar unit of 318 mph. Estimated winds on 5-20-13 were on the order of 200-220mph. The surprisingly low number of fatalities for such a large tornado is likely attributed to the time of day which the tornado hit and the longer than average lead warning times. The tornado struck in the middle of the afternoon when most residents were at work and not at home unlike the Joplin, MO tornado (Sunday evening at dinner time) and the 5-3-99 Moore Tornado which struck after 600pm. Most of the damage with this tornado occurred in subdivisions and luckily many of the homes were not occupied at the time of the tornado. It is also clear that the two elementary schools impacted offered some of the best shelter/protection even though they suffered extensive damage as noted in the damage photos below of the surrounding subdivision. Children being in those schools and not in the surrounding homes where many likely lived saved their lives. The lead warning time for this tornado was 16 minutes or nearly double the average. Most residents in the path knew the tornado was coming and did exactly the correct tornado safety precautions. In the areas of EF5 damage in/around the elementary schools unless underground there was little hope of surviving. The large diameter of the tornado (1.3 miles) suggest a single location in the funnel may have sustained winds of 150-220mph for over 1 minute....a very long time. There is little doubt that the numerous tornado shelters installed in many homes after the 5-3-99 tornado saved many lives in this event. Tower Plaza Elementary School: Brairwood Elementary School and surrounding subdivision: Moore Medical Center Ariel Damage Images: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Just incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Just incredible. Amazing that only 24 people were killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkrangers Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Wonder if there is any mobile Doppler radar data for the tornado? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 How did nobody die in Briarwood Elementary? Looks more heavily damaged than Plaza Towers Elem. The pictures of these types of events always amaze me when literally houses on opposite sides of the street (~100 feet apart at most?) are either pulverized or barely damaged at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 How did nobody die in Briarwood Elementary? Looks more heavily damaged than Plaza Towers Elem. The pictures of these types of events always amaze me when literally houses on opposite sides of the street (~100 feet apart at most?) are either pulverized or barely damaged at all. The construction of the building may have helped. http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-tornado-devastated-elementary-schools-safe-rooms/story?id=19230427#.UZz7rIeG1fc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquusStorm Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Absolutely mind-boggling damage there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxdude64 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I'm amazed at what is touched during a tornado and what isn't. First the picture of the bowling pins and now this... http://twitpic.com/csbefn I'm more terrified of the knife stuck in the wall below the games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKpowdah Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Not sure if anyone has shared this yet, but I took this screenshot of the 0-3km EHI valid for the hour before the Moore tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needbiggerboat Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 The chance of the same location be hit by 2 EF 5 tornadoes is about 1 in a trillion. This sounds more like a guess than a grounded equation. The odds are clearly lower given the actual data points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Whatever the odds are, Moore has hit the tornado jackpot in the worst way. It's an extraordinary stroke of bad luck even for a place in the center of Tornado Alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 This sounds more like a guess than a grounded equation. The odds are clearly lower given the actual data points. Not sure exactly how you would figure the odds for that out, however I would think they would be pretty high considering EF-5 tornadoes are rare and there is a lot of real estate for a tornado to track through without hitting the exact same location. I mean, you're talking 1-1.5 miles wide for a wedge EF-5 tornado. That's pretty tiny when compared to all the land out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needbiggerboat Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Not sure exactly how you would figure the odds for that out, however I would think they would be pretty high considering EF-5 tornadoes are rare and there is a lot of real estate for a tornado to track through without hitting the exact same location. I mean, you're talking 1-1.5 miles wide for a wedge EF-5 tornado. That's pretty tiny when compared to all the land out there. Fair enough. Just think it would be interesting to see the inputs and methodology for that equation. I could say the odds are really a gazillion fazillion, if there isn't any way to ground the approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburns Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Fair enough. Just think it would be interesting to see the inputs and methodology for that equation. I could say the odds are really a gazillion fazillion, if there isn't any way to ground the approach. One thing for sure. The odds of being hit again remain the same as they were before the first and second tornadoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Wonder if there is any mobile Doppler radar data for the tornado? There were a ton of groups out, but they were all farther south. One group got data, but from a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Watching this video and the devastation that took place its amazing that anyone survived in those houses. Theres alot of lucky people out there that made ith through that weren't underground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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