OKC KFOR

[Mallow]

"This is the most destructive tornado in the history of the world. I can say that with complete confidence." - Mike Morgan 

 

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/20/meteorologist-worst-tornado-damage-in-the-history-of-the-world/

 

 

Yep.

 

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/40287-okc-kfor/?p=2296281

[DaculaWeather]

I listened to an interview last night, from a couple who was going to stick it out in their bathtub. The wife finally told her husband she wasn't staying and so they got in the car and left. Their tub was gone. 

 

Knowing what to do when, comes with knowledge and a basic understanding of the weather. I have no basement, and if I know an EF5 is headed my way, I'm getting the hell out of dodge too. Knowing the direction that most tornadoes take, I would at least know which direction to go if one was approaching. 

 

And in all fairness to those that did flee, we don't really know what we might do in a situation like that. You know what you're suppose to do, but sometimes common sense (or just the fight or flight instinct) overrides things and adrenaline takes over. 

 

You did the right thing if you survived, otherwise... 

[New England Storm]

Let me state before I make the comment that I am not a pro anything when it comes to weather at all. My area of study is media, so I will offer you  some insight to what might be happening at KFOR  tv. 

 

1.Tv/Radio is all about money. You get money from adds based on how many in the DMA watch the station. In the past 20 years local tv stations have been at a loss when it comes to local add revenue. The only local programes left on local tv is the weather and news. Also lets remember that when the economy is in a "slump" most local companies can't afford to buy time on tv. 

 

2. In the OKC DMA weather coverage is the last huge money maker for all of the tv stations. KWTV has been the leader for some time, first with its own weather radar, first helicopter live video of a tornado, ect. KFOR has always tried but failed to overtake KFOR in terms of weather. KFOR has tried to win viewers with things like it "South Mega Watt" radar ect ect... When all the fancy gadgets failed to win viewers the stations owners  might have tried to go with a OCM with an off the wall personality aka a weather weenie. They might be thinking  that his on air style could  lure viewers to KFOR. Hype brings in viewers.

 

3.I will add that kfor has been this way for some time, look at the May 1999 coverage. Or May 9 2003, when the had a helicopter up for a night time tornado warning! 

Bottom Line is KFOR seems to want to run the local weather in a tabloid style to lure viewers in by having this OCM yell about "this thing is a f5 for sure, not doubt about it" 

A note to KFOR, Tabloid media style and the dumbing down of news and weather is killing local TV!

 

I'm glad that I am not the only one who sees a problem with kfor. 

[CandymanColumbusGA]

I know this is the thread for KFOR, but the chief at KOCO lost his house to the tornado. Here's his recap of events on a more personal level: http://www.koco.com/weather/a-personal-note-from-damon-lane/-/9845544/20284428/-/item/0/-/h384goz/-/index.html

 
I couldn't imagine having to do that while on air... My chief has had me text his wife when a tornado warning was out for his part of the county. Kudos to him for staying calm during the storm.

 

Oh, and, if I'm not mistaken..., wasn't KFOR the source of some of the misinformation? Or am I just making that up in my mind this morning.

[SnowGoose69]

I lived in OKC for about 6-7 years and Morgan takes alot of crap from the meteorology community, some of it definitely deserved.  The rating tornadoes as they are occurring always happens, he pretty much calls anything wide or a wedge an EF4 or EF5.  One thing he also does which we'd also joke about is using tornado as a verb, he'll say "this storm could tornado at any time"  In the winter months he also has a tendency to go crazy on snow amounts several days out....I've always felt the OUN NWS contributes to this somewhat though, they are very trigger happy on WSWs in winter while the Tulsa office seems a bit smarter on waiting.

[nrgjeff]

As a meteorologist there is no doubt I'd take my wife and daughter out of the path. Heck, I get nervous if I see a flat base on a non-severe thundershower when my daughter is with me.

 

That being said, the odds are strongly in favor of sheltering in place even w/o an underground shelter. Note you still abandon mobile homes. This is about permanent structures. Look at those rows and rows of houses in Moore - and people walked out of that debris! They know what to do. Not just any interior room, but a small one. Even non-engineers have that "gut" in the Plains to pick the right interior room.

 

Second, even with an EF-5 the whole tornado is not EF-5. Like a hurricane eyewall, only a small part is high-end. Most of that wedge was EF-3 and below - easily survivable above ground in the right room. Unless you get hit by a suction vorticy, you're good even above ground in the correct small interior room.

 

Count the walls on a nice day, not when you're under the gun. Interior bath with closets both sides is a totally legit above ground shelter for 99% of tornadoes. And in the strongest 1% you just have to hope the suction vorticy misses - which it probably will miss. 

 

I'm in no way downplaying the deaths in Moore. The crushed innocence of children still bothers me a lot. One death is one too many. However what I'm saying is that odds still overwhelmingly favor sheltering in place even during the most violent wedge. If no basement, consider investing in a pre-fab underground shelter. No matter what, excluding mobile, if in a permanent structure shelter in place. Period.

[Ginx snewx]

As a meteorologist there is no doubt I'd take my wife and daughter out of the path. Heck, I get nervous if I see a flat base on a non-severe thundershower when my daughter is with me.

 

That being said, the odds are strongly in favor of sheltering in place even w/o an underground shelter. Note you still abandon mobile homes. This is about permanent structures. Look at those rows and rows of houses in Moore - and people walked out of that debris! They know what to do. Not just any interior room, but a small one. Even non-engineers have that "gut" in the Plains to pick the right interior room.

 

Second, even with an EF-5 the whole tornado is not EF-5. Like a hurricane eyewall, only a small part is high-end. Most of that wedge was EF-3 and below - easily survivable above ground in the right room. Unless you get hit by a suction vorticy, you're good even above ground in the correct small interior room.

 

Count the walls on a nice day, not when you're under the gun. Interior bath with closets both sides is a totally legit above ground shelter for 99% of tornadoes. And in the strongest 1% you just have to hope the suction vorticy misses - which it probably will miss. 

 

I'm in no way downplaying the deaths in Moore. The crushed innocence of children still bothers me a lot. One death is one too many. However what I'm saying is that odds still overwhelmingly favor sheltering in place even during the most violent wedge. If no basement, consider investing in a pre-fab underground shelter. No matter what, excluding mobile, if in a permanent structure shelter in place. Period.

I'm gone, bike, car,  with 20 min's lead time on an F4/5, no way am I chancing a bathroom wall saving my ass.

[brettjrob]

Let me state before I make the comment that I am not a pro anything when it comes to weather at all. My area of study is media, so I will offer you  some insight to what might be happening at KFOR  tv. 

 

1.Tv/Radio is all about money. You get money from adds based on how many in the DMA watch the station. In the past 20 years local tv stations have been at a loss when it comes to local add revenue. The only local programes left on local tv is the weather and news. Also lets remember that when the economy is in a "slump" most local companies can't afford to buy time on tv. 

 

2. In the OKC DMA weather coverage is the last huge money maker for all of the tv stations. KWTV has been the leader for some time, first with its own weather radar, first helicopter live video of a tornado, ect. KFOR has always tried but failed to overtake KFOR in terms of weather. KFOR has tried to win viewers with things like it "South Mega Watt" radar ect ect... When all the fancy gadgets failed to win viewers the stations owners  might have tried to go with a OCM with an off the wall personality aka a weather weenie. They might be thinking  that his on air style could  lure viewers to KFOR. Hype brings in viewers.

 

3.I will add that kfor has been this way for some time, look at the May 1999 coverage. Or May 9 2003, when the had a helicopter up for a night time tornado warning! 

Bottom Line is KFOR seems to want to run the local weather in a tabloid style to lure viewers in by having this OCM yell about "this thing is a f5 for sure, not doubt about it" 

A note to KFOR, Tabloid media style and the dumbing down of news and weather is killing local TV!

 

I'm glad that I am not the only one who sees a problem with kfor. 

 

Well, KFOR's schtick must be working. KWTV just recently stole Mike's former underling, David Payne, as the future replacement for England. And Payne was even more egregious in his behavior and rhetoric while chasing on-air this past weekend than Morgan could hope to be. Actually, while I've definitely heard Mike assign ratings for a tornado in progress several times, Payne is and always has been the king of that.

[New England Storm]

Well, KFOR's schtick must be working. KWTV just recently stole Mike's former underling, David Payne, as the future replacement for England. And Payne was even more egregious in his behavior and rhetoric while chasing on-air this past weekend than Morgan could hope to be. Actually, while I've definitely heard Mike assign ratings for a tornado in progress several times, Payne is and always has been the king of that.

It makes one wonder if KWTV will be ok with his gung-ho behavior. Kind of OT but KWTV just dumped that ESP radar system for what looks like Baron's Viper. The ratings war will be heating up again. 

[andyhb]

It makes one wonder if KWTV will be ok with his gung-ho behavior. Kind of OT but KWTV just dumped that ESP radar system for what looks like Baron's Viper. The ratings war will be heating up again. 

 

I noticed that it seemed like Gary was getting frustrated at times with the constant yapping over each other, when he was trying to determine where the tornadoes were heading on the 19th and 20th.

[Paweatherguy1]

 

I've wondered this for years, really. I understand why you tell people to stay indoors, and don't flee. In an EF 2 or EF 3, your chances of surviving inside a solid structure are exponentially better than if you flee and get caught in the storm.

 

An EF 4 or 5 though? I'd be out of the way in an instant, even if I only had a 5 or 10 minute warning time. The fact that I know how to read a radar, and the fact that in general, I'm going to have a very good idea which way the storm is moving means that if all I do is drive 2 miles, I am going to be OK.

 

Now, what complicates it in my area is that hills will block the view of any approaching tornado, and I am not going to have an exact estimate of where it is heading like I would in the midwest where I will have a good chance to see it coming for several minutes.

 

Even with that said, I am right off a couple roads that lead both north, south, and east, so I would be taking the best possible escape route.

[JoMo]

 

 

I've wondered this for years, really. I understand why you tell people to stay indoors, and don't flee. In an EF 2 or EF 3, your chances of surviving inside a solid structure are exponentially better than if you flee and get caught in the storm.

 

An EF 4 or 5 though? I'd be out of the way in an instant, even if I only had a 5 or 10 minute warning time. The fact that I know how to read a radar, and the fact that in general, I'm going to have a very good idea which way the storm is moving means that if all I do is drive 2 miles, I am going to be OK.

 

Now, what complicates it in my area is that hills will block the view of any approaching tornado, and I am not going to have an exact estimate of where it is heading like I would in the midwest where I will have a good chance to see it coming for several minutes.

 

Even with that said, I am right off a couple roads that lead both north, south, and east, so I would be taking the best possible escape route.

 

 

Rural vs Urban area. If you are in an urban area and everyone tried to flee, you get what happened in Moore, a traffic jam with a large tornado approaching. Also, like you mentioned, flat land vs hills.  You can see the tornado on flat land a lot easier and know where it is. 

 

 

Oh and to stay on topic. I was annoyed by this channel as the event was happening. Seems like the only person that was doing a good job and remaining calm was the helicopter pilot. 

[The_Global_Warmer]

As a meteorologist there is no doubt I'd take my wife and daughter out of the path. Heck, I get nervous if I see a flat base on a non-severe thundershower when my daughter is with me.

 

That being said, the odds are strongly in favor of sheltering in place even w/o an underground shelter. Note you still abandon mobile homes. This is about permanent structures. Look at those rows and rows of houses in Moore - and people walked out of that debris! They know what to do. Not just any interior room, but a small one. Even non-engineers have that "gut" in the Plains to pick the right interior room.

 

Second, even with an EF-5 the whole tornado is not EF-5. Like a hurricane eyewall, only a small part is high-end. Most of that wedge was EF-3 and below - easily survivable above ground in the right room. Unless you get hit by a suction vorticy, you're good even above ground in the correct small interior room.

 

Count the walls on a nice day, not when you're under the gun. Interior bath with closets both sides is a totally legit above ground shelter for 99% of tornadoes. And in the strongest 1% you just have to hope the suction vorticy misses - which it probably will miss. 

 

I'm in no way downplaying the deaths in Moore. The crushed innocence of children still bothers me a lot. One death is one too many. However what I'm saying is that odds still overwhelmingly favor sheltering in place even during the most violent wedge. If no basement, consider investing in a pre-fab underground shelter. No matter what, excluding mobile, if in a permanent structure shelter in place. Period.

 

 

If an EF4-5 is 20 min out.  I could run 3 miles at least if I had no other way.  Even in rain or hail I would risk it.  There is no way I am going to wait for 200mph winds and hope the structure I am in saves my life. 

 

I don't care if the odds are 99.9 percent. 

[nrgjeff]

Agree with you guys 100% for ourselves: Meteorologists, SKYWARN spotters, researchers, media, chasers, private spotters, hobbyists, students etc. However the general public will just get themselves killed. My OP is below yours. Yes, I'm getting the heck out of Dodge!

 

I'm gone, bike, car,  with 20 min's lead time on an F4/5, no way am I chancing a bathroom wall saving my ass.

 

If an EF4-5 is 20 min out.  I could run 3 miles at least if I had no other way.  Even in rain or hail I would risk it.  There is no way I am going to wait for 200mph winds and hope the structure I am in saves my life. 

 

I don't care if the odds are 99.9 percent. 

 

... I understand why you tell people to stay indoors, and don't flee. In an EF 2 or EF 3, your chances of surviving inside a solid structure are exponentially better than if you flee and get caught in the storm.

 

An EF 4 or 5 though? I'd be out of the way in an instant, even if I only had a 5 or 10 minute warning time. The fact that I know how to read a radar, and the fact that in general, I'm going to have a very good idea which way the storm is moving means that if all I do is drive 2 miles, I am going to be OK....

 

 

original post edit in bold

As a meteorologist there is no doubt I'd take my wife and daughter out of the path. Heck, I get nervous if I see a flat base on a non-severe thundershower when my daughter is with me.

 

That being said, for the general public, the odds are strongly in favor of sheltering in place even w/o an underground shelter. Note you still abandon mobile homes. This is about permanent structures. Look at those rows and rows of houses in Moore - and people walked out of that debris! They know what to do. Not just any interior room, but a small one. Even non-engineers have that "gut" in the Plains to pick the right interior room.

 

Second, even with an EF-5 the whole tornado is not EF-5. Like a hurricane eyewall, only a small part is high-end. Most of that wedge was EF-3 and below - easily survivable above ground in the right room. Unless you get hit by a suction vorticy, you're good even above ground in the correct small interior room.

 

Count the walls on a nice day, not when you're under the gun. Interior bath with closets both sides is a totally legit above ground shelter for 99% of tornadoes. And in the strongest 1% you just have to hope the suction vorticy misses - which it probably will miss. 

 

I'm in no way downplaying the deaths in Moore. The crushed innocence of children still bothers me a lot. One death is one too many. However what I'm saying is that odds still overwhelmingly favor sheltering in place even during the most violent wedge. If no basement, consider investing in a pre-fab underground shelter. No matter what, excluding mobile, if in a permanent structure shelter in place. Period.

[CT Rain]

FWIW.... KFOR had the highest ratings for all day parts during the tornado and into the night. KWTV was close but several rating points behind. KOCO was a distant 3rd.

 

While the tornadoes were on the ground all 3 stations combined for a 92-95 share... which means 92-95% of the TVs on in the entire market were watching those stations. That's impressive. 

[andyhb]

While the tornadoes were on the ground all 3 stations combined for a 92-95 share... which means 92-95% of the TVs on in the entire market were watching those stations. That's impressive. 

 

I'd like to see the share for the 4/27/11 outbreak in AL (for the people that did have power, that is).

[CT Rain]

Well, KFOR's schtick must be working. KWTV just recently stole Mike's former underling, David Payne, as the future replacement for England. And Payne was even more egregious in his behavior and rhetoric while chasing on-air this past weekend than Morgan could hope to be. Actually, while I've definitely heard Mike assign ratings for a tornado in progress several times, Payne is and always has been the king of that.

 

The new Tornado Warning Guidance 2013 from the Warning Decision Training Branch has a lesson on how to determine (ballpark, of course) the strength of a tornado given reports, radar signature, and near-storm environment. It appears even the NWS is now giving guidance to their mets on how to judge a tornado's strength while the event is in progress.

 

This shouldn't be a huge surprise since we are seeing warnings and statements try to get more specific with impacts and even the proliferation of "tornado emergencies" which attempts to distinguish between weaker and more violent tornadoes. 

[CT Rain]

I'd like to see the share for the 4/27/11 outbreak in AL (for the people that did have power, that is).

 

Let me look. IIRC the numbers weren't available due to high number of outages but I'll go back and look. 

[SmokeEater]

FWIW.... KFOR had the highest ratings for all day parts during the tornado and into the night. KWTV was close but several rating points behind. KOCO was a distant 3rd.

 

While the tornadoes were on the ground all 3 stations combined for a 92-95 share... which means 92-95% of the TVs on in the entire market were watching those stations. That's impressive. 

I figured KFOR would jump ahead for the near future with the edition of Reed chasing for them. 2 hype machines together equal ratings until the viewing public gets tired of them. KWTV had better coverage by leaps and bounds, other then David Payne constantly screaming to take his stream over Val and everyone else. It's a shame, I really used to like Mike Morgan, he was great in the May 3rd 99 coverage, but now it's all about hyping everything he can.

[phlwx]

I figured KFOR would jump ahead for the near future with the edition of Reed chasing for them. 2 hype machines together equal ratings until the viewing public gets tired of them. KWTV had better coverage by leaps and bounds, other then David Payne constantly screaming to take his stream over Val and everyone else. It's a shame, I really used to like Mike Morgan, he was great in the May 3rd 99 coverage, but now it's all about hyping everything he can.

 

This is the nature of the industry as a whole...as evidenced by what went down last week here when NBC 10 had three meteorologists covering run of the mill thunderstorms and trying to pass them off as "potentially severe" when there was no watch, no MD, nothing.

 

The news industry is becoming less about reporting news than trying to break/generate/sensationalize whatever it can.  Yes, weatherguys get caught up into it...some of them willingly (Morgan doesn't help himself), some of them by coercion through bosses.

[famartin]

This is the nature of the industry as a whole...as evidenced by what went down last week here when NBC 10 had three meteorologists covering run of the mill thunderstorms and trying to pass them off as "potentially severe" when there was no watch, no MD, nothing.

 

The news industry is becoming less about reporting news than trying to break/generate/sensationalize whatever it can.  Yes, weatherguys get caught up into it...some of them willingly (Morgan doesn't help himself), some of them by coercion through bosses.

 

The hype fest permeates the entirety of American society these days.  I've seen it everywhere.

[phlwx]

The hype fest permeates the entirety of American society these days.  I've seen it everywhere.

 

agree strongly

[U_Thant]

Saw a comment on FB about today's TOR near OKC, and that whomever was on KFOR was telling people to get in their car and try to escape the tornado, but wound up vectoring people right toward where a bunch of vehicles got caught up in it. My instincts are telling me that this isn't the case, and I really hope it's just an honest mistake on the poster's part.

 

Did anyone who had/has KFOR streaming live hear anything to this effect?

[Cajun Thunder]

Saw a comment on FB about today's TOR near OKC, and that whomever was on KFOR was telling people to get in their car and try to escape the tornado, but wound up vectoring people right toward where a bunch of vehicles got caught up in it. My instincts are telling me that this isn't the case, and I really hope it's just an honest mistake on the poster's part.

 

Did anyone who had/has KFOR streaming live hear anything to this effect?

I don't know if that's the case, haven't been streaming them. I will say that if it is true...someone is going to have to do some introspection at that station. The 5 fatalities that have been reported so far have all been in vehicles.

[CandymanColumbusGA]

Saw a comment on FB about today's TOR near OKC, and that whomever was on KFOR was telling people to get in their car and try to escape the tornado, but wound up vectoring people right toward where a bunch of vehicles got caught up in it. My instincts are telling me that this isn't the case, and I really hope it's just an honest mistake on the poster's part.

 

Did anyone who had/has KFOR streaming live hear anything to this effect?

I heard him say to get in your car and head south, which put them in the path of some of the worst weather... He did quit saying the car thing once he realized the tornadoes were drifting south, not north like he thought they would. 

[famartin]

I heard him say to get in your car and head south, which put them in the path of some of the worst weather... He did quit saying the car thing once he realized the tornadoes were drifting south, not north like he thought they would. 

And that's why you don't tell people to go anywhere.

 

I almost hope people died because of him, if only to get him off the air (or to at least shut up)... almost...

[botheredbyit]

I watched KFOR's stream for well over an hour. There were 4 rotations KFOR was watching in the area west of Downtown OKC. KFOR's weatherman declared a "tornado emergency" on the first rotation and told viewers to get underground or drive south. All the while I noticed that spotters never visually confirmed what was being seen on radar due to heavy rain. Well everybody got into their cars and got cought up in the ensueing traffic jam and got caught up in the second rotation coming through that was a confirmed event on the ground.They were all sitting on the highway with no where to go. I came here because of this. There should be hell to pay. Stations and their personalities must be more responsible than this

[famartin]

I watched KFOR's stream for well over an hour. There were 4 rotations KFOR was watching in the area west of Downtown OKC. KFOR's weatherman declared a "tornado emergency" on the first rotation and told viewers to get underground or drive south. All the while I noticed that spotters never visually confirmed what was being seen on radar due to heavy rain. Well everybody got into their cars and got cought up in the ensueing traffic jam and got caught up in the second rotation coming through that was a confirmed event on the ground.They were all sitting on the highway with no where to go. I came here because of this. There should be hell to pay. Stations and their personalities must be more responsible than this

I wasn't watching, but if that's indeed what happened, then personally I feel you are correct; there should be hell to pay.

[Amped]

I watched KFOR's stream for well over an hour. There were 4 rotations KFOR was watching in the area west of Downtown OKC. KFOR's weatherman declared a "tornado emergency" on the first rotation and told viewers to get underground or drive south. All the while I noticed that spotters never visually confirmed what was being seen on radar due to heavy rain. Well everybody got into their cars and got cought up in the ensueing traffic jam and got caught up in the second rotation coming through that was a confirmed event on the ground.They were all sitting on the highway with no where to go. I came here because of this. There should be hell to pay. Stations and their personalities must be more responsible than this

 

 

Today was everything that was wrong with Tornado chasing and tornado evacuation plans! On second thought driving away from the tornado is a bad idea. Murphies law says it will veer and hit your escape route while missing your house.

[LocoAko]

I wasn't watching, but if that's indeed what happened, then personally I feel you are correct; there should be hell to pay.

Yes. While I'm sure some of the parking lot traffic witnessed in OKC was due to panic over what happened in Moore a week and a half ago, there's no doubt that hearing stuff like this on TV fueled it. I hope there's an investigation into this.