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December 19th-20 Storm Thread III

Baroclinic Zone

By Baroclinic Zone,
in New England

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Logan11

Logan11

Posted
Posted

Yeah Ray Falconer was out of the U. ALB Atmospheric science program....maybe the head of the department years ago. Before WAMC he always did the forecast on AM 590 WROW in the 70's and 80's. I used to tune him in to get a real detailed wx analysis and forecast for "Interior Eastern New York and Western New England" as they always called it.

I wish I had Will's memory for snowstorms. I seem to remember other instances where the models depicted a massive hit only to back way off but in the last hours the big hit idea came roaring back to fruition. Probably have to go back a few years and the models were probably not nearly as sophisticated as they are now. Holding out hope for a miracle is free and no one gets hurt.lol Hey, do you remember Ray Falconer or more recently Mike Landin. Both broadcast on WAMC for years. I miss their take on things. Ray was an old school Met and I had the good fortune to listen to him at the end of his career. He always said N'oreasters were fickle creatures and one could never be comfortable predicting their behavior. I also remeber him saying that there were times when we'd get locked into a storm cycle that would provide threats every 5-7 days for protracted periods. Hoping we're slipping into that kind of a rythm.

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dendrite

dendrite

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Brian, do you still monitor soil temps? I'm curious what goes on with soil temps under deep snowpack. Are they stable? What prompted you (or anyone) to monitor them?

Agricultural sites have monitored them for some time. Davis has soil stations geared toward farmers and since I'm a wx sensor weenie I decided to add it for the hell of it. My soil probe is placed at 6". When we have a normal snow cover the whole winter it is very stable and around 32-34F...even with prolonged periods of below 0F lows and highs in the teens.

When we have cold temps without snow cover (think late Jan 07) then we start having some issues with the ground freezing deeper. At the very end of Jan in 2007 I had it reach my record low of 27F. Once we got some snow at the beginning of February it began to slowly drift back up to 32F. The snow pack is definitely a nice insulator for the ground from the cold.

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HoarfrostHubb

HoarfrostHubb

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I really hope the SE Mass folks get their first snow. I was all whipping the weenie last week when I got 0.5" and that wasn't even the first of the year.

Just seeing it fall and change the landscape is what being a weenie is based on. Learning why it happens the way that it does is what seperates the freaks on this board from the general population.

Any chance for flakes at the Pats game? (Please say yes - BOX says 40%)

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HoarfrostHubb

HoarfrostHubb

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Agricultural sites have monitored them for some time. Davis has soil stations geared toward farmers and since I'm a wx sensor weenie I decided to add it for the hell of it. My soil probe is placed at 6". When we have a normal snow cover the whole winter it is very stable and around 32-34F...even with prolonged periods of below 0F lows and highs in the teens.

When we have cold temps without snow cover (think late Jan 07) then we start having some issues with the ground freezing deeper. At the very end of Jan in 2007 I had it reach my record low of 27F. Once we got some snow at the beginning of February it began to slowly drift back up to 32F. The snow pack is definitely a nice insulator for the ground from the cold.

That's interesting. I had thought it would get colder than freezing in general at that depth, since the ground can be frozen feet deep.

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ski MRG

ski MRG

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Agricultural sites have monitored them for some time. Davis has soil stations geared toward farmers and since I'm a wx sensor weenie I decided to add it for the hell of it. My soil probe is placed at 6". When we have a normal snow cover the whole winter it is very stable and around 32-34F...even with prolonged periods of below 0F lows and highs in the teens.

When we have cold temps without snow cover (think late Jan 07) then we start having some issues with the ground freezing deeper. At the very end of Jan in 2007 I had it reach my record low of 27F. Once we got some snow at the beginning of February it began to slowly drift back up to 32F. The snow pack is definitely a nice insulator for the ground from the cold.

Our thin snowcover ( couple inches) hasn't seemed to prevent the frost from getting down pretty far already. We've had a few nights below zero this month and have spent quite a bit of time inthe single digits/low teens and when we had to do some excavating at the site recently we were surprised to find the frost down over a foot. There have been some years when we've gotten a deep snowpack early in the season that the frost never really sets in. As I watched the bucket trying to break through the frozen crust I thought it might be cool to set up a soil temp sensor here at the house. Thanks.

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Logan11

Logan11

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It must be nerve wracking for those of you that still have a chance. For me it's just fascinating to watch. I always have loved model busts...if it is in favor of snow. ;)

I know the NAM could be doing some crazy thing ..we have all seen it before. But hope for the best!

our hopes are so fragile that the 0z nam could chop our weenies off.

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Logan11

Logan11

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They told us around here to put pipes four feet down. Maybe that's overkill...who knows.

Our thin snowcover ( couple inches) hasn't seemed to prevent the frost from getting down pretty far already. We've had a few nights below zero this month and have spent quite a bit of time inthe single digits/low teens and when we had to do some excavating at the site recently we were surprised to find the frost down over a foot. There have been some years when we've gotten a deep snowpack early in the season that the frost never really sets in. As I watched the bucket trying to break through the frozen crust I thought it might be cool to set up a soil temp sensor here at the house. Thanks.

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dendrite

dendrite

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Our thin snowcover ( couple inches) hasn't seemed to prevent the frost from getting down pretty far already. We've had a few nights below zero this month and have spent quite a bit of time inthe single digits/low teens and when we had to do some excavating at the site recently we were surprised to find the frost down over a foot. There have been some years when we've gotten a deep snowpack early in the season that the frost never really sets in. As I watched the bucket trying to break through the frozen crust I thought it might be cool to set up a soil temp sensor here at the house. Thanks.

Well I was wavering between 1-2" of snow cover when we hit 27F...so yeah, a couple of inches doesn't insulate much.

Here are my max/min soil temps for the last few winters in DJFM

06/07: D: 49/34 J: 38/27 F: 31/27 M: 32/31

07/08: D: 36/34 J: 35/34 F: 34/34 M: 34/33

08/09: D: 36/33 J: 34/33 F: 34/33 M: 42/33

09/10: D: 44/33 J: 33/32 F: 32/30 M: 43/32

10/11: D: 42/33 so far

Obviously 07/08 and 08/09 were our big snow cover winters. You can see that I didn't record a soil temp of 32F at all in both of those.

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