Soon you guys won't have to complain about "excessively low" snow reports from DCA...

[famartin]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2013/05/01/faa-plan-to-terminate-airport-weather-observers-raises-travel-safety-concerns/

 

[Deck Pic]

maybe we can move obs across the river, still call it DCA, over measure every event, and melt down liquid to estimate snowfall amounts using a chart and end up with a total that is the highest of the surrounding area...

 

Our complaints are legit....go pound sand

[snowfan]

maybe we can move obs across the river, still call it DCA, over measure every event, and melt down liquid to estimate snowfall amounts using a chart and end up with a total that is the highest of the surrounding area...

 

Our complaints are legit....go pound sand

[famartin]

Not my point Zwyts.  My point is that (and we'll just call this a "funny feeling") if the FAA doesn't do it...  the NWS may not have the resources to re-assume the responsibility either right now.  So this may be the end of continuous snowfall records for DC. 

[Deck Pic]

Not my point Zwyts.  My point is that (and we'll just call this a "funny feeling") if the FAA doesn't do it...  the NWS may not have the resources to re-assume the responsibility either right now.  So this may be the end of continuous snowfall records for DC. 

 

DCA is already a joke...i dont really care...otherwise it is a disaster....so yes...scary article

[North Balti Zen]

I should prob read article first, but what resources are needed to measure snow...seems like that could be done and recorded somewhere kinda on the cheap...

[WEATHER53]

DCA has had an odd way of handling it anyway. They are FAA and not NWS and believe me they pull that fact out when you press them on the snow issue.

[famartin]

I should prob read article first, but what resources are needed to measure snow...seems like that could be done and recorded somewhere kinda on the cheap...

From what I recall, the existing NWS snow observer program utilized elsewhere pays observers a $115/month stipend to "be around" and then $4 for each 6-hourly snowfall report.  But considering the NWS is facing furloughs... I have a feeling it doesn't exactly have extra money for bunch of new observers. 

[Deck Pic]

I know there is more to observations than snow, but it is still funny to see Mark Richards bitching about this when snow measurements over the years have been so questionable..as if this will make DCA measurements any worse than they actually are

[astarck]

The past couple of years our snow average has been close to 0".  Without an observer it would go to 0".  Seems pretty accurate to me.

[WinterWxLuvr]

From what I recall, the existing NWS snow observer program utilized elsewhere pays observers a $115/month stipend to "be around" and then $4 for each 6-hourly snowfall report. But considering the NWS is facing furloughs... I have a feeling it doesn't exactly have extra money for bunch of new observers.

Well, that's a ridiculous waste of money. You could do it with a camera and a wide blade windshield wiper. There's no need for a human to have to go out and measure snow. This is 2013. I think we could handle this with some pretty basic technology.

[famartin]

Well, that's a ridiculous waste of money. You could do it with a camera and a wide blade windshield wiper. There's no need for a human to have to go out and measure snow. This is 2013. I think we could handle this with some pretty basic technology.

 

Yes... because the wiper blade would work great after 10" of snow had fallen... or a mixture of sleet and freezing rain... not to mention it knows how to melt and measure precipitation from the standard rain gauge as the observers are also tasked to do... plus take the multiple snow depth measurements around their property required for the snow depth report. 

[MN Transplant]

Well, that's a ridiculous waste of money. You could do it with a camera and a wide blade windshield wiper. There's no need for a human to have to go out and measure snow. This is 2013. I think we could handle this with some pretty basic technology.

Actually, accurate automated snowfall observations have proven to be an exceedingly difficult problem. There has probably been more research on it than you think, driven by hydrological concerns out west. Heated gauges, snow pillows, and even cosmic ray probes have been tried.

[WinterWxLuvr]

Actually, accurate automated snowfall observations have proven to be an exceedingly difficult problem. There has probably been more research on it than you think, driven by hydrological concerns out west. Heated gauges, snow pillows, and even cosmic ray probes have been tried.

Let me ask you this. First, what is so critical about snowfall measurement in the first place, and isn't the melted water amount the only thing that really matters. Second, is it so hard to design a flat surface that could be hydraulic so that it could lift every six hours, shake off snow, reset, and the amount measured remotely via a camera?

[famartin]

Let me ask you this. First, what is so critical about snowfall measurement in the first place, and isn't the melted water amount the only thing that really matters. Second, is it so hard to design a flat surface that could be hydraulic so that it could lift every six hours, shake off snow, reset, and the amount measured remotely via a camera?

Why are you invading this subforum anyway?  Go back to DC where you hate your official measurers anyway.

 

Snowfall is very important for industries involving travel, DOT's, airlines, snow plow operators.  Big storms get FEMA and insurance companies attention.  What is their first source of data on the storm?  Official NWS snowfall measurements.  So that *should* answer your first question.  If it doesn't, I can't help you any further.

 

As for your second question:  First, in cases of heavy wet snow, or a mixture of snow, sleet, freezing rain, etc, its not that easy to just "shake" off the snow. Second, snow doesn't always settle evenly, it blows around sometimes.  How's an automated system like you describe going to measure it when that happens?

[WinterWxLuvr]

Why are you invading this subforum anyway? Go back to DC where you hate your official measurers anyway.

Snowfall is very important for industries involving travel, DOT's, airlines, snow plow operators. Big storms get FEMA and insurance companies attention. What is their first source of data on the storm? Official NWS snowfall measurements. So that *should* answer your first question. If it doesn't, I can't help you any further.

As for your second question: First, in cases of heavy wet snow, or a mixture of snow, sleet, freezing rain, etc, its not that easy to just "shake" off the snow. Second, snow doesn't always settle evenly, it blows around sometimes. How's an automated system like you describe going to measure it when that happens?

What sub forum am I supposed to be in????

As to your last point, I thought the purpose of multiple locations, measurements, was the way you dealt with drifting.

As for the earlier part...FEMA assistance would be different for a 6" snow vs an 8" snow, runway and DOT snow plow drivers would work differently because snowfall was accurately measured to the nearest tenth of an inch? I'm just having a hard time seeing why it's such a big deal.

As for me not liking the DC measurements, I really couldn't care less. I only care about what's outside my back door anyway.

[famartin]

What sub forum am I supposed to be in????

As to your last point, I thought the purpose of multiple locations, measurements, was the way you dealt with drifting.

As for the earlier part...FEMA assistance would be different for a 6" snow vs an 8" snow, runway and DOT snow plow drivers would work differently because snowfall was accurately measured to the nearest tenth of an inch? I'm just having a hard time seeing why it's such a big deal.

As for me not liking the DC measurements, I really couldn't care less. I only care about what's outside my back door anyway.

Your first point/question:  Mid Atlantic, obviously

 

Your second point:  Once you start adding up equipment for a bunch of different locations, it starts to add up cost wise too.

 

Your third point:  Yes, FEMA has weird rules about what gets how much assistance.  They have break points.  Insurance companies too.  Measuring to the nearest tenth CAN matter, such as when an accurate person measured 3.2+2.2+0.6 while a sloppy person measures 3+2+0.5, you get 6.0 versus 5.5 and the difference between, potentially, insurance/FEMA money or no.  Of course, lets not forget that often times, small amounts MATTER.  0.1 or 0.2 might just blow off the road, but 0.3 or 0.4 falling rapidly at the wrong time might cause a rush hour nightmare.  A low resolution person would just measure "trace" for all of that.

[famartin]

at myself...  I forgot I had put a thread in the Mid Atlantic forum, I thought I was responding to the one in NYC

My bad

[wxdude64]

at myself...  I forgot I had put a thread in the Mid Atlantic forum, I thought I was responding to the one in NYC

My bad

I was trying to figure out if you were serious or playing, guess we got the answer!