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Central PA - March 2013


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NWS predicting mixing issues for the LSV on Wednesday. I'm assuming they're citing the GFS/Euro for this call.

no idea where they are getting that though... all temp profiles i have seen for here are only warm very close to surface

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18z GFS took a good step towards the NAM.  Keep in mind the GFS is a global and low resolution compared to the NAM so its NEVER going to have the precip totals the NAM shows nor will it pick up on banding features that the NAM can, but in terms of low track, and the axis of precip they are pretty much in lock step.  The big difference for the PA zones near the MD border is the NAM is picking up on a deform band that it develops in this area tomorrow.  THe Euro and now GFS hint at this band also, but they focus more on the convective precip down closer to the low, so instead of the .25 the NAM is spitting out every 3 hours with that band parked along the mason dixon line, the globals are putting out .1.  That is the difference between the .75 qpf on the globals and the 1.5" on the high resolution models.  After seeing the "ghost" reflection of this band on both the euro and the 18z GFS I feel more confident or perhaps "hopefull" that the high resolution models are onto something here and are correctly placing the "death band" of snow we often see on the back edge as moisture convergence occurs banked up against the confluence.  THis is often responsible for that second snowfall maximum we see in many KU storms.  It's possible the globals cant see this features as well as the lower resolutions and the NAM is scoring a rare coup.  The safe bet is the hedge between the two, but I wouldn't be shocked if the NAM, adjusted for its crazy wet bias, wins out. 

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18z GFS took a good step towards the NAM.  Keep in mind the GFS is a global and low resolution compared to the NAM so its NEVER going to have the precip totals the NAM shows nor will it pick up on banding features that the NAM can, but in terms of low track, and the axis of precip they are pretty much in lock step.  The big difference for the PA zones near the MD border is the NAM is picking up on a deform band that it develops in this area tomorrow.  THe Euro and now GFS hint at this band also, but they focus more on the convective precip down closer to the low, so instead of the .25 the NAM is spitting out every 3 hours with that band parked along the mason dixon line, the globals are putting out .1.  That is the difference between the .75 qpf on the globals and the 1.5" on the high resolution models.  After seeing the "ghost" reflection of this band on both the euro and the 18z GFS I feel more confident or perhaps "hopefull" that the high resolution models are onto something here and are correctly placing the "death band" of snow we often see on the back edge as moisture convergence occurs banked up against the confluence.  THis is often responsible for that second snowfall maximum we see in many KU storms.  It's possible the globals cant see this features as well as the lower resolutions and the NAM is scoring a rare coup.  The safe bet is the hedge between the two, but I wouldn't be shocked if the NAM, adjusted for its crazy wet bias, wins out. 

 

Again, thanks. You should post here more often.

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18z GFS took a good step towards the NAM. Keep in mind the GFS is a global and low resolution compared to the NAM so its NEVER going to have the precip totals the NAM shows nor will it pick up on banding features that the NAM can, but in terms of low track, and the axis of precip they are pretty much in lock step. The big difference for the PA zones near the MD border is the NAM is picking up on a deform band that it develops in this area tomorrow. THe Euro and now GFS hint at this band also, but they focus more on the

convective precip down closer to the low, so instead of the .25 the NAM is spitting out every 3 hours with that band parked along the mason dixon line, the globals are putting out .1. That is the difference between the .75 qpf on the globals and the 1.5" on the high resolution models. After seeing the "ghost" reflection of this band on both the euro and the 18z GFS I feel more confident or perhaps "hopefull" that the high resolution models are onto something here and are correctly placing the "death band" of snow we often see on the back edge as moisture convergence occurs banked up against the confluence. THis is often responsible for that second snowfall maximum we see in many KU storms. It's possible the globals cant see this features as well as the lower resolutions and the NAM is scoring a rare coup. The safe bet is the hedge between the two, but I wouldn't be shocked if the NAM, adjusted for its crazy wet bias, wins out.

Awesome...makes sense, too. Please keep posting here...really good stuff.

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I will add my 2 snowflakes worth for a guess. My totals are higher because I believe this "storm will overperform".

 

Me (Lititz - a few miles north of Lancaster City): 16" - My hope is that my neighborhood gets stuck under an intense band of snow. :lmao:

JST: 9"

AOO: 6"

UNV: 3"

MDT: 8"

THV: 10"

LNS: 9"

Somerset: 15"

IPT: 15 snowflakes

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What doesn't make sense to me from the NWS snowfall map is that the NAM shows Cumberland county total precip between one inch and 1.25" yet they have most of the county in 4 to 6 except extreme sw corner.  If the NAM precip is even close to correct, then that would be a 5:1 snow:liquid ratio which doesn't seem anywhere close to reality.  Now I see the GFS total for Cumberland looks like between 0.5" and 0.75"...so it would seem they are siding with GFS qpf and ignoring the NAM?

 

BTW....thanks to everyone for kindly including Carlisle in your snowfall predictions!!  I think if I averaged everyone's totals out it comes out to around 6" which is what I am hoping for from this storm.

 

I pretty much stay out of the forecasting stuff while prefering to observe and record wx data, so no predictions from me....lol. 

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What doesn't make sense to me from the NWS snowfall map is that the NAM shows Cumberland county total precip between one inch and 1.25" yet they haved most of the county in 4 to 6 except extreme sw corner.  If the NAM precip is even close to correct, then that would be a 5:1 snow:liquid ratio which doesn't seem anywhere close to reality.  Now I see the GFS total for Cumberland looks like between 0.5" and 0.75"...so it would seem they are siding with GFS qpf and ignoring the NAM?

 

BTW....thanks to everyone for kindly including Carlisle in your snowfall predictions!!  I think if I averaged everyone's totals out it comes out to around 6" which is what I am hoping for from this storm.

 

I pretty much stay out of the forecasting stuff while prefering to observe and record wx data, so no predictions from me....lol. 

 

I forgot to add Carlisle. I would go with 6".

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I don't know the story behind this DT character, but that map stinks in my opinion.

hes just like Joe Bastardi... very smart meteorologist... but will forecast for what impacts his clients the best then try to spin things when its obvious hes wrong to make it look like he should still be trusted... days ago he said the models were not going to push precip north of mason dixon line and def no snow for new england... this morning he admitted he was wrong with his first map but hes riding the euro

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hes just like Joe Bastardi... very smart meteorologist... but will forecast for what impacts his clients the best then try to spin things when its obvious hes wrong to make it look like he should still be trusted... days ago he said the models were not going to push precip north of mason dixon line and def no snow for new england... this morning he admitted he was wrong with his first map but hes riding the euro

Caveat: 

 

I don't believe JB's ever told someone he was going to bang their mom or called someone a stupid dyke whore cow over a forecast. 

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