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Significant Ocean Storm March 5-7 2013 Discussion Part II


earthlight

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This thread is unreadable. The amount of entitlement that some posters feel here is enough to make me vomit.

Normally I'd agree but in this case you have to admit this is pretty awful to sit back and watch DC and Boston yield 12 inches + while we get really no meaningful accumulating snow. No one is saying they are entitled while the other regions aren't but to be skipped over like this is very rare when we are talking about a snowstorm impacting DC and Boston but not Philly and NYC in March and some venting of disappointment is not a sense of entitlement.

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Philly Subforum  They've were screwed for every event this season, even the little duster clippers.

I know-definitely hasn't been a winter for the corridor SW of NYC. Luckily spring's almost here.

 

I'm somewhat optimistic that the front end is being cut away too much, but the fact that every model backed off on it means that the nighttime thumping we needed around the city and coast isn't going to happen in all likelihood. This is looking like it could verify in pretty much the most frustrating manner possible for this area down to the M/D line.

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I know you're going to deny this since you're a troll...but the Euro had zero zilch for Boston less than 2 days ago...significant precip 500 miles away from their latitude... now in excess of 2.5" qpf. Stop looking at your own backyard and realize the GFS was the first to clue in on a more north7ern solution

The name calling and what not will not help us in any way shape or form to predict what is going to happen. That being said, we live and die by every model and we cant- we need to look at why the NCEP models have shifted somewhat ( GFS specifically ). Analysis is what models are for, not for using explicitly which one you like. I cant right now because I'm working at my Fd, but I will say that my guess would be the s/w which allowed for height rises is not being perfectly positioned to allow for the height rises like it was before and thus allowing the precip to really ramp up the coast. Then there's also the issue of phasing which will take some time to be ironed out yet- the euro wasnt exactly spot on with this in Feb, though it did a good job. Were not done by any means - we will have to really dissect these models to see what's going on, but I suspect the Euro may not be fully correct either as the phase with this type of block may not completely miss us. The NAM will be useful to look at this as this is its strong points with storms- mesoscale features and were now in a pretty good range for it. But please issue analysis and not character attacks.
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Normally I'd agree but in this case you have to admit this is pretty awful to sit back and watch DC and Boston yield 12 inches + while we get really no meaningful accumulating snow. No one is saying they are entitled while the other regions aren't but to be skipped over like this is very rare when we are talking about a snowstorm impacting DC and Boston but not Philly and NYC in March and some venting of disappointment is not a sense of entitlement.

No, the crying doesn't belong in this thread. If you want to complain and whine then do it in the banter thread. Keep this place clear for scientific discussion about the event.

 

This one isn't over, especially with the norlun trough idea but I certainly wouldn't want to rely on that. They almost never end up as modeled.

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euro is a big f-u also for people looking for even one day of warmth. Has almost a back door cold front look and areas NE of interior CNJ dont make it out of the upper 30's to mid 40's either sat or sun with the cold front approaching. Monday looks warmer but still sub 50 for everyone north and east of NJ. 

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Normally I'd agree but in this case you have to admit this is pretty awful to sit back and watch DC and Boston yield 12 inches + while we get really no accumulating snow. No one is saying they are entitled while the other regions aren't but to be skipped over like this is very rare when we are talking about a snowstorm impacting DC and Boston but not Philly and NYC in March and some venting of disappointment is not a sense of entitlement.

 

 

I agree especially when NUMEROUS runs of different models were Showing Big hits in this region. With that said curious to see what the new SREFS,NAM and other short range guidance say this afternoon and tonight for Sh!ts and Giggles. 

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Norluns are almost impossible to really rely on. I think that could easily trend to less or over a different area next run.

 

 

Im pretty sure it's an inverted trough feature. Not a narrow norlun trough. Same type of thing that dropped a widespread 3"-9" on SNE a couple weeks back.

 

If it were just a narrow norlun trough, I wouldnt even mention it at all.

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why is everyone surprised.....when will people learn to stop hugging a ridiculous NAM solution or one boffo GFS run that is an outlier. This storm was never forecasted 5-6 days ago to be a foot storm...we were always on the fringe of getting something and there were clear indications of temperture issues. Too much weeniesm run rampant and actually I am surprised after the crackdown how much banter has been allowed to take control over the threads

 

the Euro has generally been consistent..yes it shifted a little at times but it never showed the area getting a big hit here.

Way oversimplified.  When a meteorological legend, like Walt Drag (NWS-Philly) says, "TO PREFACE THE DIRECTION WE ARE GOING... THE ECMWF HAS GENERALLY NOT BEEN STELLAR INSIDE OF DAY 5...SINCE THE SANDY EVENT FOR OUR AREA... AND IN MY OPINION...AT LEAST FOR THIS AREA...THE GFS AND ITS ENSEMBLES AS WELL AS THE SREF ARE BETTER PREDICTORS FOR OUR WEATHER..." it's clear that the potential for major snow was not simply predicated on the NAM, but on sound meteorological reasoning - which may turn out to be wrong, but that happens more than the pros would like in this business. 

 

http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=PHI&product=AFD&format=CI&version=11&glossary=0&highlight=off

 

I do agree that weenieism has crept back in too much and would prefer if only pros or "approved" non-pros did the play by plays, at least - we've seen way too much wishcasting and erroneous speculation during the pbp threads the past day or two.  The model that gives us the most snow is not necessarily the right one and the others "dismissed" for some biased reason. 

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Im pretty sure it's an inverted trough feature. Not a narrow norlun trough. Same type of thing that dropped a widespread 3"-9" on SNE a couple weeks back.

If it were just a narrow norlun trough, I wouldnt even mention it at all.

A shortwave coming down from the lakes enhances it and causes a widespread inverted trough feature.

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Not 1 model held its course with this storm

 

The interaction between the main closed low with the energy cutting through the lakes is very challenging to model

correctly since such a small change will yield significantly different outcomes. Adding that big block over Eastern Canada

is not helping matters. In situations like this, it's better to wait until you see several runs among the varying models agree before 

pulling the trigger on a specific solution. 

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The interaction between the main closed low with the energy cutting through the lakes is very challenging to model

correctly since such a small change will yield significant different outcomes. Adding that big block over Eastern Canada

is not helping matters. In situations like this, it's better to wait until you see several runs among the varying models agree before 

pulling the trigger on a specific outcome.

 

Definitely agree, but the euro has been very persistent with this feature for a couple of runs in a row now.

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The interaction between the main closed low with the energy cutting through the lakes is very challenging to model

correctly since such a small change will yield significantly different outcomes. Adding that big block over Eastern Canada

is not helping matters. In situations like this, it's better to wait until you see several runs among the varying models agree before

pulling the trigger on a specific solution.

Exactly
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every run is different.. we will be here tomorrow waiting for the 12z too. 

 

 

Sad thing is all the people complaining or writing storm off(including myself) will be back for more aggravation tonight and tomorrow morning. When your a weather addict and something big is THAT close the juice is worth the squeeze. 

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A shortwave coming down from the lakes enhances it and causes a widespread inverted trough feature.

 

 

It's the same inverted trough that's enhancing New England's precip. But that shortwave coming down greatly enhances it and helps to drag it southwest. Not impossible. It's not some narrow norlun trough. 

 

But potentially having to ditch that coastal really sucks. I never completely give up on events, but things aren't looking great right now. 

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Sad thing is all the people complaining or writing storm off(including myself) will be back for more aggravation tonight and tomorrow morning. When your a weather addict and something big is THAT close the juice is worth the squeeze. 

Yes..Im watching this one even before the EURO showed us the 2+ last week and everyone started getting interested in it. I think this is our last chance for this season. 

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