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The March 6 Storm- The (last) Great White Hope, Part II


stormtracker

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this air mass is VERY similar to 2/23/87.....maybe a tad better....DCA was 42 when precip started that evening and within 90 minutes they were ++SN and 33 pretty much all night.....Sun angle and day time will be more of an issue with this one so we wont get the same ratios at the lower elevations....but 33-34 should be easy

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Temp setup reminds me a good bit of April '97. DC probably start off as some light rain, and flip fairly quickly to heavy, wet snow. Would agree spot on with Matt's temp guess, 33-34 DCA, 32-33 NW DC. Sounding are pretty good considering how marginal this is. 

 

How much did DC get during that storm?  I lived in Northern Westchester County NY (about 40 miles North of NYC) and we got pummeled, 16-18 inches of paste, major power outages, and thundersnow.

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Except until a day ago he was saying it was around march 15th. A blind squirrel finds a nut.

Today he said shades of April 82' just 2-3 weeks earlier for the rest of March. There was also mention of a big high slipping into the northeast next week. I think you can figure out on your own what he thinks this leads too.

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I just took a look at the model soundings for DCA. Outside of a mix of RASN at the start and maybe a mix of snow and sleet for an hour or less at 9z Wed. It is in fact all snow. It may mix at the very tail end with lower rates too. All in all 85-95% of the precip from the NAM is snow. As always.. it's the NAM.

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Man if the NAM verified it would be a NESIS 4 IMO, heavy snow from you guys to SNE. 

This is what I was talking about earlier... this seems to be getting bigger and bigger each run.. not 1993 by any stretch (that was just different).. but if this were early Feb and the temps were in the 20s.. it would be top ten (if it verified).

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Just looking at the NAM soundings, it appears there could be a mix in the beginning (9Z Wednesday) with a 0C isothermal layer from about 800mb-900mb.  However, once pass 9Z it appears to shift to a pure snow scenario the rest of the way.  This analysis is looking at a point over Silver Spring, MD.  

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The NWS is just starting to update their grids. Using Centreville, VA as a reference point (some mentioned it earlier as a good place), they are calling for 3-5 inches Tuesday night alone. Which syncs with the above map of 8-10 for that area by 1pm. Looks like even that area will flip back/forth between snow/sleet/rain during the event. So they seem to be riding these higher GFS/NAM-like QPF totals.

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I just took a look at the model soundings for DCA. Outside of a mix of RASN at the start and maybe a mix of snow and sleet for an hour or less at 9z Wed. It is in fact all snow. It may mix at the very tail end with lower rates too. All in all 85-95% of the precip from the NAM is snow. As always.. it's the NAM.

 

Perhaps this isn't the time or place for this question, but how could the NAM soundings be >85% snow on 2"+ QPF but spit out that clown map that shows maybe 3" of snow for DC?  Wouldn't the clown map take the soundings into account? 

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Perhaps this isn't the time or place for this question, but how could the NAM soundings be >85% snow on 2"+ QPF but spit out that clown map that shows maybe 3" of snow for DC?  Wouldn't the clown map take the soundings into account? 

There are two types of clown maps---snowfall and snow depth.The snow depth ones are the much lower ones. For example, compare instantweathermaps' snowfall vs. snow depth map. 

 

Edited to add: I'm sure the snow depth ones have some melting algorithm based on the surface temperature (35 F at DCA verbatim from the NAM at 18Z).

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Look at the time.. Ending 1:00 PM... Wed... that is only half of the period.

kind dumb to have a map out for part of the storm

 

but then again that map has always been kinda dumb

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Perhaps this isn't the time or place for this question, but how could the NAM soundings be >85% snow on 2"+ QPF but spit out that clown map that shows maybe 3" of snow for DC?  Wouldn't the clown map take the soundings into account? 

 

I don't think the clown maps are that complex - don't they just take QPF at 2m temps and run with it?

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Perhaps this isn't the time or place for this question, but how could the NAM soundings be >85% snow on 2"+ QPF but spit out that clown map that shows maybe 3" of snow for DC?  Wouldn't the clown map take the soundings into account? 

Yes, but they do a very poor job at it. Often times they take surface temps way too seriously or on the flip side they put the rates too high. They also put out just the true snowfall. Which is not the case in the real world because of compaction; which with very wet snow can be quite significant. The only way to truly tell is with interval rates and looking at soundings.

Edit: Also it doesn't consider the depth of the cloud and at what height and temperature your seeder feeders are. 1" precip of small plated snow from shallow clouds with tops of -7°C is way different from 1" of precip from 25kft tops with temps at -30°C and a tall dendritic growth layer.

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Yes, but they do a very poor job at it. Often times they take surface temps way too seriously or on the flip side they put the rates too high. They also put out just the true snowfall. Which is not the case in the real world because of compaction; which with very wet snow can be quite significant. The only way to truly tell is with interval rates and looking at soundings.

I believe that poster was just looking at snow depth maps. What you say about the snowfall ones is true, of course.

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