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February 16th-17th Potential Winter Storm Part II


earthlight

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Just a reminder that this is not a chat room. "Gfs started" and "ugh" posts will be deleted and repeat offenders will have 5 post per day restrictions.

It's ridiculous that Doug and I have to spend our entire day deleting posts because they literally add no substance to the discussion.

Thanks in advance !

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Wonder what caused the models to freak out like they did?

Anyway, pending big turnarounds tonight, this threat's done. Just too progressive a trough and too sheared out. Story of the winter.

Something in the balloons or digested a bit of bad data? Real big burp as most had 12+ for sne.

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Nam looks terrible, flurries for all.

Agree with some of the others, wonder what caused 12z to freak out? Something must have been in the data that screwed the models up, the question is what, and why didn't the EURO get the data, or is it smart enough to figure out that it was no good?

-skisheep

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There is not one positive thing that I can say about this run. It practically has nothing going for it.

The snow chase is like a chess match .95% of time there will be a winner and a loser. we have to accept reality and move on to next 1. and in realizty to next winter if necessary. Every late Feb people get desperate around NYC because they realize the temps will rise soon and odds go drastically down and on average we get 5.0 inches in March. so yes pic isnt bright but sadlt it is what it is and we dont control the weather

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when isopleths on the h5 map are tightly bunched you know nothing good can happen...there needs to be spacing..
 
just look at hr36, the 528DCM to 570DCM are all tightly lined up...blah

 

The vort over North/Western New York State is too far east on all of the new models since 18z. This serves to supress the upper level flow over the Northeast US and the surface low swings out farther east when the shortwave over the MS Valley finally ejects out of the trough base.

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Nam looks terrible, flurries for all.

Agree with some of the others, wonder what caused 12z to freak out? Something must have been in the data that screwed the models up, the question is what, and why didn't the EURO get the data, or is it smart enough to figure out that it was no good?

-skisheep

 

Your question is something I have wondered about for a long time.  I'm sure all the models use the same physics.

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question for mets: these two maps dont jive at all - there is absolutely no continuity between the h5 and h8 panels...why is that???

 

nam_namer_039_500_vort_ht.gif

nam_namer_039_850_temp_ht.gif

basically, my question is, why does h8 seem swung out so far east ahead of the h5 energy. you dont usually see this....

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The vort over North/Western New York State is too far east on all of the new models since 18z. This serves to supress the upper level flow over the Northeast US and the surface low swings out farther east when the shortwave over the MS Valley finally ejects out of the trough base.

 

 

The vort over North/Western New York State is too far east on all of the new models since 18z. This serves to supress the upper level flow over the Northeast US and the surface low swings out farther east when the shortwave over the MS Valley finally ejects out of the trough base.

seems a bit further west on this run than 0Z

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question for mets: these two maps dont jive at all - there is absolutely no continuity between the h5 and h8 panels...why is that???

Essentially the same reason there is no "jiving" between the H5 and surface... different forcing mechanisms at work at different levels of the atmosphere.

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Essentially the same reason there is no "jiving" between the H5 and surface... different forcing mechanisms at work at different levels of the atmosphere.

 

 

Essentially the same reason there is no "jiving" between the H5 and surface... different forcing mechanisms at work at different levels of the atmosphere.

thanks....this isnt typical for an h5 setup like this...is it?

 

looking at the h5 map, id expect an slp on the SC/GA border and a closed H8 low in western Tenn...only in the winter of 2012-2013

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Your question is something I have wondered about for a long time.  I'm sure all the models use the same physics.

Basic physics, yes, but there are things that are too small (micro-scale and meso-scale processes) which the models can't directly simulate, so these are "parameterized".  Parameterizations differ between models and this does have some effect on the outcome. 

 

Other things such as how new data is assimilated into the model, terrain forcing, and of course resolution also affect model outcome.

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The last shortwave that hits the base of the trough around 48 hours is the one that we have to keep an eye on I think. That's kicking off surface low development near the carolina coast....but the entire set up is a hair too progressive and it winds up kicking just barely east.

 

Said this earlier but the first thing I noticed about this set up a few days ago was that it just seemed to be displaced to the east a little bit too much. And it looks like that's coming back to hurt us.

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thanks....this isnt typical for an h5 setup like this...is it?

 

looking at the h5 map, id expect an slp on the SC/GA border and a closed H8 low in western Tenn...only in the winter of 2012-2013

The most basic thing which you can understand from looking at upper level (300 or 250 mb is better than 500) and the surface is where confluence and diffluence are.  Confluence aloft promotes high pressure at the surface and vice versa. 

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At 51 HR, H5 is going negatively tilted and we miss out on something big by 6-8 hrs.

 

I think the NAM is having difficulty with determining which vort to focus in on. The first vort does not produce any signficant SLP, but instead, the second blows up off Cape Hatteras.

 

The last shortwave that hits the base of the trough around 48 hours is the one that we have to keep an eye on I think. That's kicking off surface low development near the carolina coast....but the entire set up is a hair too progressive and it winds up kicking just barely east.

 

Said this earlier but the first thing I noticed about this set up a few days ago was that it just seemed to be displaced to the east a little bit too much. And it looks like that's coming back to hurt us.

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The last shortwave that hits the base of the trough around 48 hours is the one that we have to keep an eye on I think. That's kicking off surface low development near the carolina coast....but the entire set up is a hair too progressive and it winds up kicking just barely east.

 

Said this earlier but the first thing I noticed about this set up a few days ago was that it just seemed to be displaced to the east a little bit too much. And it looks like that's coming back to hurt us.

 

 

The last shortwave that hits the base of the trough around 48 hours is the one that we have to keep an eye on I think. That's kicking off surface low development near the carolina coast....but the entire set up is a hair too progressive and it winds up kicking just barely east.

 

Said this earlier but the first thing I noticed about this set up a few days ago was that it just seemed to be displaced to the east a little bit too much. And it looks like that's coming back to hurt us.

the trough would need to be going negative for us to have a shot and it isnt, yet

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The most basic thing which you can understand from looking at upper level (300 or 250 mb is better than 500) and the surface is where confluence and diffluence are.  Confluence aloft promotes high pressure at the surface and vice versa. 

 

 

The most basic thing which you can understand from looking at upper level (300 or 250 mb is better than 500) and the surface is where confluence and diffluence are.  Confluence aloft promotes high pressure at the surface and vice versa. 

look at h3, are the colors off the south east coast indicative of the diffluence?

 

nam_namer_048_300_wnd_ht.gif

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