Lake Effect Event Discussion

[snowstormcanuck]

YKF is spot on --  but it's a bit puzzling how they only recorded 19.8cm on the 8th with other spotters and/or other observation methods reporting 28cm-40cm... which is a maximum difference of 20.2cm within 10 km.

 

With windy systems, there's going to be wide variations, especially when not all the numbers report are from observers who know how to properly measure. The 40cm amount in Waterloo, given how isolated it is, makes me think whomever measured that amount of snow did so (accidently) in a drift.

[on_wx]

With windy systems, there's going to be wide variations, especially when not all the numbers report are from observers who know how to properly measure. The 40cm amount in Waterloo, given how isolated it is, makes me think whomever measured that amount of snow did so (accidently) in a drift.

 

There were two other reports from Waterloo given to EC of 34cm and 35cm, and also that 32cm in Fergus, which somewhat aid that 40cm'er on the north side of town if it were true. Hopefully the U of Waterloo will verify an amount next month. Also, an Environment Canada meteorologist lives in KW and when I spoke with him he had no objections to the volunteer reports. 

 

But yeah, I wonder if YKF uses a similar method of snow measurement as YYZ or were just having a bad day.

[snowstormcanuck]

There were two other reports from Waterloo given to EC of 34cm and 35cm, and also that 32cm in Fergus, which somewhat aid that 40cm'er on the north side of town if it were true. Hopefully the U of Waterloo will verify an amount next month. Also, an Environment Canada meteorologist lives in KW and when I spoke with him he had no objections to the volunteer reports. 

 

But yeah, I wonder if YKF uses a similar method of snow measurement as YYZ or were just having a bad day.

 

You wouldn't happen to have saved the snow report? I'd like to have a second look at it. When I made my snowfall map, I remember thinking how isolated that U o W number was. But I can guarantee you one, the other, or both of the YKF and U of Waterloo numbers are wrong. There wasn't a 20cm gap within that short a distance in a stratiform system like this that didn't have prominent banding features. 

[on_wx]

You wouldn't happen to have saved the snow report? I'd like to have a second look at it. When I made my snowfall map, I remember thinking how isolated that U o W number was. But I can guarantee you one, the other, or both of the YKF and U of Waterloo numbers are wrong. There wasn't a 20cm gap within that short a distance in a stratiform system like this that didn't have prominent banding features. 

 

Unable to locate any summaries released after this one. 

 

UPDATED WEATHER SUMMARY FOR ALL OF SOUTHERN ONTARIO AND THE  NATIONAL CAPITAL REGION ISSUED BY ENVIRONMENT CANADA  AT 9:14 AM EST SATURDAY 9 FEBRUARY 2013.    -------------------------------------------------------------  ==WEATHER EVENT DISCUSSION==    BELOW ARE TOTAL SNOW AMOUNTS REPORTED AS OF 1:00 AM SATURDAY.    -------------------------------------------------------------  LOCATION                SNOW AMOUNT (CM)  -------------------------------------------------------------    WINDSOR AIRPORT           7  CHATHAM                   6*  TILLSONBURG              29*  MOUNT BRYDGES            23*  GODERICH                 14  LONDON AIRPORT           20  DORCHESTER               25*  FOLDENS (SW WOODSTOCK)   23  ROSEVILLE (SW KITCHENER) 25  CAMBRIDGE                25  KITCHENER STANLEY PARK   29*  KITCHENER WEST           31*  WATERLOO - NORTH         40*  WATERLOO AIRPORT         20*  GUELPH                   23*  FERGUS                   33*  FERGUS SHAND DAM         29*  DELHI                    27  WELLAND                  30*  GRIMSBY MOUNTAIN         27  GRIMSBY WEST (LAKESHORE) 29*  ST CATHARINES            30*  ST CATHARINES - SOUTH    44*  FORT ERIE                13*  PORT COLBORNE            19*  DUNDAS                   35*  HAMILTON - WEST MTN      32  HAMILTON ARPT            15  BRAMPTON                 25  GEORGETOWN               31*  TORONTO - PEARSON        26  TORONTO - DOWNTOWN       28  TORONTO - DOWNSVIEW      30  TORONTO - EAST YORK      34*  PICKERING                30*  VAUGHAN                  34*  JARVIS                   30*  MARKHAM                  27*  WOODBRIDGE               30*  BUTTONVILLE              35  THORNHILL                34*  RICHMOND HILL            34  AURORA                   40*  NEWMARKET                25  BALDWIN (S SUTTON)       30*  SHARON                   28*  CALEDON                  25*  ORILLIA                  39  COLDWATER                32  SHANTY BAY (NE BARRIE)   37  MIDLAND                  20*  HALIBURTON               23*  THORNBURY                29*  WIARTON                  27  BLACKSTOCK (PORT PERRY)  29*  KALADAR                  30*  TRENTON                  31  STIRLING                 24*  BRIGHTON                 33*  BOWMANVILLE              26*  PETERBOROUGH             33*  TAPLEY (SW PETERBOROUGH) 41*  PERTH                    25  CENTREVILLE (NW KINGSTN) 17*  BROCKVILLE               23*  OTTAWA - AIRPORT         25  GATINEAU                 20  RUSSELL (SE OTTAWA)      20  KEMPTVILLE               20 (EST'D)  BALACLAVA (SW RENFREW)   21*  PEMBROKE                 11 (EST'D)  PETAWAWA                  9*    * VOLUNTEER OBSERVATIONS    THIS WEATHER SUMMARY CONTAINS PRELIMINARY INFORMATION AND MAY NOT  CONSTITUTE AN OFFICIAL OR FINAL REPORT.    END/OSPC  

[Toronto4]

Official or not, now that I know why Pearson lowballs, I've basically discounted them. They can record a trace from here on out as far I care. 

 

lol. But seriously, I wonder if all of the major airport reporting stations (class A) across Canada are using the nipher snow gauge to measure snow. I'm going to have to do some investigative work to find out.

[snowstormcanuck]

lol. But seriously, I wonder if all of the major airport reporting stations (class A) across Canada are using the nipher snow gauge to measure snow. I'm going to have to do some investigative work to find out.

 

Quite possible. I did some light reading about the nipher and I believe the MSC employs a couple hundred of them across Canada. I'll try and find you the link. 

 

edit: I can't substantiate the above claim. I know that MSC considers the nipher as the standard snow measurement instrument for determining liquid equivalent. However, I haven't found anything that states the number of niphers in use or that they're considered superior instruments for measuring snowfall.

 

https://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/68724.pdf

[michsnowfreak]

Quite possible. I did some light reading about the nipher and I believe the MSC employs a couple hundred of them across Canada. I'll try and find you the link. 

I dont think Windsor does, as their measurments always seem to be very close to mine/DTW.

 

In fact, through Feb 18th, season totals:

DTW: 33.9"

MBY: 35.3"

Windsor: 34.9" (88.6cm, I convert)

[snowstormcanuck]

I dont think Windsor does, as their measurments always seem to be very close to mine/DTW.

 

In fact, through Feb 18th, season totals:

DTW: 33.9"

MBY: 35.3"

Windsor: 34.9" (88.6cm, I convert)

 

lol, I'd accuse Windsor Airport of slant sticking before using a nipher.

[michsnowfreak]

lol, I'd accuse Windsor Airport of slant sticking before using a nipher.

Looking at previous winters this decade they actually usually outsnow us. And Ive noticed a trend....the big differences are the very wet snowfalls, when the dry/powder snowfalls are very similar. Our biggest storm this winter (Dec 26) all 3 places had near identical snow...6.2" at DTW, 6.3" mby, 6.2" Windsor. We really had any wet snows this winter, so no discrepancies. Say for instance we get a wet 5-1 ratio snow (0.40" water, 2.0" snow) they would be apt to say 4.0". So its as if they use a nipher for wet snows but measure regular for powder snows. Oh those Canadian measuring techniques

[Toronto4]

Quite possible. I did some light reading about the nipher and I believe the MSC employs a couple hundred of them across Canada. I'll try and find you the link. 

 

edit: I can't substantiate the above claim. I know that MSC considers the nipher as the standard snow measurement instrument for determining liquid equivalent. However, I haven't found anything that states the number of niphers in use or that they're considered superior instruments for measuring snowfall.

 

https://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/68724.pdf

 

Thanks for the link. My guess is that most of the principal/class A reporting stations use the nipher gauge.

[OntarioWX]

Windsor is a little weird when it comes to measurements. Most of the time I'd say they are pretty accurate but every once in a while they'll get a snowfall that has me scratching my head. Back when I lived in Blenheim, which is about an hour east of Windsor, I'd get snowfall measurements like 4 or 5cm and Windsor would come in with 8 or 10cm. Usually with the wet snow events, like michsnowfreak said. In December 2011 when we had a couple really wet snow events, I recorded 13cm for the month in my backyard while Windsor recorded 26cm. I still can't see how they received double the amount of snow we received.

[snowstormcanuck]

Looking at previous winters this decade they actually usually outsnow us. And Ive noticed a trend....the big differences are the very wet snowfalls, when the dry/powder snowfalls are very similar. Our biggest storm this winter (Dec 26) all 3 places had near identical snow...6.2" at DTW, 6.3" mby, 6.2" Windsor. We really had any wet snows this winter, so no discrepancies. Say for instance we get a wet 5-1 ratio snow (0.40" water, 2.0" snow) they would be apt to say 4.0". So its as if they use a nipher for wet snows but measure regular for powder snows. Oh those Canadian measuring techniques

 

 

Windsor is a little weird when it comes to measurements. Most of the time I'd say they are pretty accurate but every once in a while they'll get a snowfall that has me scratching my head. Back when I lived in Blenheim, which is about an hour east of Windsor, I'd get snowfall measurements like 4 or 5cm and Windsor would come in with 8 or 10cm. Usually with the wet snow events, like michsnowfreak said. In December 2011 when we had a couple really wet snow events, I recorded 13cm for the month in my backyard while Windsor recorded 26cm. I still can't see how they received double the amount of snow we received.

 

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/37955-december-2012-general-discussion/?p=1919343

 

1 winter in the last 20 DTW beat Windsor. Interesting theory about how Windsor measures Josh. I buy it. I'd like to shake the hand of the weenie at Windsor's airport who devised that plan.

[snowstormcanuck]

Thanks for the link. My guess is that most of the principal/class A reporting stations use the nipher gauge.

 

That graph indicates at least several dozen were installed, although I'm not sure you can aggregate each yearly number to find a total. There can be de-installations no?

[michsnowfreak]

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/37955-december-2012-general-discussion/?p=1919343

 

1 winter in the last 20 DTW beat Windsor. Interesting theory about how Windsor measures Josh. I buy it. I'd like to shake the hand of the weenie at Windsor's airport who devised that plan.

Thanks for the link i knew we had the data somewhere and I couldnt remember where

[Toronto4]

That graph indicates at least several dozen were installed, although I'm not sure you can aggregate each yearly number to find a total. There can be de-installations no?

 

Probably, especially if a station that previously had a nipher gauge is no longer in operation. But I think most of those stations with niphers still have them today.